The image is from plans for Toronto's Ontario Place, which is enormous, commercial, and waterfront. In other words, it has absolutely nothing in common with Pacific View. (And the upper photo is not, as some people have suggested, the new development at Weidner's Gardens.)
But on a more serious note, aside from the subcommittee's poor PowerPoint skills and inappropriate image appropriation, the October 6 meeting raised a lot of serious concerns that somebody should have thought about earlier. Like, say, zoning for the new arts center!
Wait a minute... art galleries, music conservatories, dance studios, and recording studios are expressly prohibited? What kind of art center are we getting for $10 million?
Then there's the Coastal Commission approval (and they don't want anything that will impact parking at Moonlight Beach!), and the non-taxable bond limitations fiasco. Not to mention that the city is too broke to build or operate anything on the site, which is why they are hiring expensive consultants to figure out how to raise fees on residents. Click on over to Focus on Encinitas for the full scoop on the Pacific View SNAFU.
First.... Again.
ReplyDeleteWe really have been screwed big time.
ReplyDeleteWhat a freaking disaster.
ReplyDeleteDoes Kranz know "legacy" doesn't have to be positive?
So let's all understand this nightmare. .... The artsy fartsy crowd cons 3 council people into overpaying for a tear down building. Now to pay for it the artsy fartsy people are finding out their precious pottery cups and plates will require taxable bonds.... So what will the city subsity be for these so called artists ?? More than enough to offset the cost of the taxable bonds ?? Doubtful.
ReplyDeleteThis entire PV fiasco is a stinking embarrassment for the citizens of this city. From uninformed council members who vote to buy crap because it " feels good ". To a deceitful city manager that fails to inform the council of potential consequences. To the rubes that scream and howl for every stupid idea that comes down the pike. This is a town that needs to be shamed. Historians will some day use the city of encinitas as the WRONG way to conduct govt.
That weasel Sabine should investigate the city only having to pay a fraction of the price for this site, since it had been a school (public use).. Subsequent use (storage) supposedly was the excuse to invalidate that clause, but everything is debatable. Sabine needs to be dumped when Graboli is elected as a council person.
Delete5:53 it is not the arts crowd, it was Scott ChatChat field and a council led by Barth that thought they could use the arts vote to elect Kranz and Blakespear to appoint Barth. Have you not seen Chatfileds election newsletter and the krnaz baBarth photog spread?
DeleteThen there is Kathleen Lees pushing a regional arts center, and let's not forget that PV is still zoned for housing on the new update map
Barth held off coral tree until the election, she helfhalf off PV until the election, she is hoping this will get votes to the Kranz BlakespearTicket leading to a Barth appointment to
You are right. Dalakranz is done from this fiasco. What a sad joke right on the heal of the Sports Park Fiasco. How could Barf, Dalakranz and Shafter be so stupid. Screw quality of life issues, lets focus on more debt for the City with a new loser Trophy project topped with a ridiculous $3 million dollar lifeguard tower.
DeleteThank God Barf is out. Next is Dalakranz and Shafter.
I attended a Meet and Greet yesterday in Encinitas Ranch. The guest was EUSD Board Member Emily Andrade. After asking her pointed questions about questionable board activities, much of the group give her an C- in accountability and leadership. The surprise of the night was when a women stated "I don't like to vote for a group or slate. Emily's response was "which she said was on the QT" that Marla Strich was the weakest board member running and if you have a problem with the slate - don't vote for Marla. WOW they eat their own!!!
ReplyDeleteLoyalty runs thin when the heat is on.
DeleteEUSD board member Andrade might deserve a C- in accountability and leadership, but she deserves an A+ in screwing the citizens of encinitas.
ReplyDeleteTell your friends to ONLY vote for Jen Hamler for EUSD.
ReplyDeleteAnd chicken little said (The sky ie falling,The sky is falling ) very weak shit W.C.. This deal is donr get over it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we could build a rink and a Tim Hortin's, eh?
ReplyDeleteWho is Encinitas' Rob Ford?
DeleteNice introducton, Including actually tracing down the photos of the "happy" place when the city buys the property, and the parody of a stifling modern tenement housing development as what would be foisted by the evil "developers." The irony is that most of the supporters of a government owned Pacific View are probably Republicans who don't understand that they are promoting what is almost pure communism, the vilification of private ownership.
ReplyDeleteI visited the Carlsbad Viliage Faire center , on 101 and Carlsbad Village Drive which is a privately owned commercial development that shows what could be done if Pacific View were sold with conditions that could be imposed for amenities such as this. One art gallery is a cooperative that had been there for a decade. Another is a sculpture school and gallery, both not allowed based on current zoning of Pacific View. Here's a video of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjpXPPXz6yw&feature=youtu.be
Speaking to the President of the Cooperative art gallery, he said he didn't see how a government owned property could allow the flexibility that they need. Encinitas is entering into a quagmire of proportions that they don't have any idea of. Sadly, among all the candidates for council and mayor, not one is willing to do more than say that the price is too high, and that the very concept of city ownership, for what is a de facto local amenity due to to limited parking, that is paid by taxes on the entire city, is rather unconscionable
You should have run for Mayor Rod. But you are a chickenshit and knew you couldn't handle the heat. Anyway - I agree with you about PV. Supported Kranz the whole time until this sad joke along with the $3 million dollar lifeguard tower. Man- He is making Dalager look good!
Delete9:15 calling Rod chickencrap and the not leaving a name- hiliarious, another gutless wonder heard from
Delete10:05-
DeleteHint. this is a freebee. Your comment would have mattered if you had left your name. As such, it exemplified the prior post. Thanks for trying jack.
8:31 Rigjht, Gaspar and Muir voted against the purchase of PV at the high price. Just goes to show how their votes don't count for crap.
ReplyDeleteDid they try to stop it? Answer: NO
All talk and no action for Gaspar and Muir.
Time to clean house and get rid of Gaspar this go around.
Get rid of Kristin "give me up-zoning and more bars" Gaspar and Tony "give me a $6000 free trip" Kranz.
DeleteVote for Sheila Cameron for mayor.
8:46 WTF are you talking about. Doesn't make any sense! Didn't they try stopping it by voting NO?
Delete12:55 We all have seen that Gaspar and Muir have contributed zilch to their time on council. What a waste they are.
DeleteBlakespear reiterated tonight what a GREAT purchase PV is. She also says that, faced with facts, she will change her mind. Ummm...guess not really.
ReplyDeleteBlakespear and all the others that wanted PV should foot the bill. Who agrees with that concept?
DeleteI do and most of my tax paying friend on Neptune!
DeleteHell I am tired of the same old retards. I think Crazy is well Crazy, but I want to show that crazy and firing Vina is better than status quo with Gaspar and Dalakranz. I am changing my tune.
ReplyDeleteTony blew it big time first on Prop A and then PV and the lifeguard mission.
Gaspar is from $tock$ cloth. Rotten at the core. Its time for change.
Lets elect Crazy and then we can dump her in two years for an upgrade. Plus she has the nuts to punch Vina in the face as she fires him. That will be great.
I think we all should vote for CRAZY CAMERON. CRAZY IS OUR GIRL!!!!
GO CRAZY. I AM GOING TO GET A SET OF EYES AT THE HALLOWEEN SHOP AND GO AS CRAZY CAMERON THIS HALLOWEEN. Scare the crap out of all the kids in the neighborhood! This is going to be a blast.
Good-bye, Mikey.
DeleteNot Mikey. Local parent who's family surfs seaside, cardiff, swamis, geacons, grandview, ponto, Oside, and trestles.
Deleteyou figure it out and good night. This is our town, not heroin town. Get real. You old crappy heroin folks are done and its time to die or start liven. Its time to live!
Or on second thought, maybe I will do the logical thing and vote for Mike. Hell its either Mike or Crazy. We will find out on election day.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it matters…..this is pure kay0s pure and simple -- the strong survive.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOh come on Crappy Pappy.... Rejoice in happiness, Leucadia looks more neglected than ever and there are at least 12-15 dead oleander trees( bushes) on the 101. Ain't life great??
DeleteHint for the willing…. search to listen to others and try and emotionally hear what they are saying. the rest is say sober and be real to yourself. If your not sober or for many is AAA which is a great org.
ReplyDeleteGod Bless AAA!! Helll Yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good suggestions if you can stand listening to the hours of storytelling
DeleteYes, triple A has great maps and nice oval stickers for your car. Watch out though. Their insurance is more expensive than State Farm's.
ReplyDeletetry USAA
ReplyDelete"Subcommittee plans 1500-foot CN Tower"
ReplyDeleteReally?? This is the best you've got? I guess you have to keep the outrage machine going less some of the folks here actually take time and think for themselves. Too bad you're not making money off this site like Fox News makes money off their outrage inducing programs. Or do you make money here?
That wasn't outrage. That was mocking the buffoonery. What kind of idiot puts the Toronto skyline in an image that's supposed to represent Encinitas?
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry if the tone was too subtle for you to catch.
Nice try. I knew you were trying to mock but it feeds the outrage. Please don't patronize me. Your MO here it to keep the tribe outraged. Just like Fox News. Your tone is always about buffoonery and incompetence. You helped several of the current "buffoons" get elected. Maybe you'll help a few more "buffoons" get elected in November. But the city will never run like you and a number of people here want it to run because it doesn't work. I'm not saying the current city practices are the best and that they haven't made mistakes. They have and I've disagreed with them at times, especially Pacific View (which this site is greatly responsible for having laid the foundation for the Save PV website).
DeleteWhile you have indeed presented city mistakes and policy problems, more often it's just hearsay, innuendo, flights of fancy and half truths. Anything to keep the tribe outraged even though that tribe is a small percentage of Encinitas residents.
Nobody looking at the image would think the tower in the background is supposed to be the 1,500ft CN tower in Toronto unless they either had seen the image before or you pointed it out. And structure height is a big issue here in Encinitas, isn't it.
Just don't try to play dumb.
Come on. It was a humorous intro to a serious issue.
DeleteDo you not find putting the CN Tower in an illustration of Encinitas funny?
Do you not find the issues of zoning and funding for Pacific View serious and worthy of discussion?
How is this unseemly or inappropriate to bring up?
I've probably been a little too harsh on some of WC's headline's in the past, but I thought this was gloriously done and injected some much needed levity into the situation.
DeleteA lot of people come on here and criticize the blog, but to do that, they had to come on here, so clearly it's well read. Frankly it's the only place to get an update on what's going on politically in our town, and you have to take the warts and all that come with it.
Semi-unmoderated forums with anonymous logins will always be that way. Yup, it gets stirred up on here, and there's a lot of hubris sometimes, but it's better than the alternative, which is a total lack of involvement by the populace. You definitely have to be ready to defend yourself, but that's the intellectual price of admission.
-MGJ
-MGJ
12:49 PM
DeleteOops, my bad. I thought you were clever but I see now that I was mistaken. Rest assured that I won't make that mistake again.
I'm starting a local blog that will have the best of the deleted comments here.
Delete"I was hoping for 2500" -sarcastic mock outrage at buffonery...
ReplyDelete12:09 PM
ReplyDeleteOutrage? You want outrage? Three council people pay double and more the worth of Pacific View. No, the public shouldn't be outraged.
Barth, Kranz, and Shaffer now find out that it will cost another million and a half dollars added on to the selling price. No, the public shouldn't be outraged. Finally, the grand plan by the three council members can't be used to generate income from the property. No, the public shouldn't be outraged. When fools and dolts are part of our elected city government; no, the public shouldn't be outraged.
1:07 There was a resident who asked the council to file an injunction to buy PV at a better price the same night Blakespear and her mom said buy it at any price-
DeleteLisa Shaffer asked the city attorney if an injunction had merit- the city attorny took a weasle position of saying the resident would cliam it does, EUSD would claim it doesn't
The council ignored the recommendation. I later learned that then Mayor Barth called people asking them to file an injunction and they told her the city shoud file it
Only online news sources are truly covering this story- the local press is not digging deep enough
1:07 PM
DeleteI'm 12:09 and I don't think the council paid too much for PV. I just don't think they should have paid anything. It's something we can't afford right now and the uses for it that are being considered could go almost anywhere in Encinitas. Sorry, I'm not outraged, just disappointed.
However, since this website was a catalyst for purchasing PV, it's a little late to be outraged. And please, don't give me the line about not saying to spend 10 million. Just be careful of what you wish for.
What a fiasco the purchase of Pacific View has become. One bonehead revelation after another. All because inexperienced, apparently well-intentioned people didn't do their homework. Who's left to pay the way-too-high bill? The taxpaying public.
ReplyDeleteYes and no.
DeleteYes the Enc taxpayer is on the hook.
No, I know several successful Encinitians that will be moving out of the city do to incompetent councils and city management PRIOR to the bills coming due.
The more people move out of Encinitas the better. Housing inventory would rise, rents and sale prices would fall. Supply would exceed demand. Good.
DeleteFewer people on the beaches and in the water. Less traffic. Lighter crowds. Reduced pollution of every kind. Lower water use. Lighter development pressure. We got along just fine when the population was a lot smaller than it is now. Lower population is better than higher.
9:20- it's never good when decent honest hard working taxpayers leave a city or town. Enc has too many sit on my ass pot smoking hippie loser idiots as it is. Good luck fixing the streets or paying for your precious PV with the taxes those losers pay. Hey I've got an idea, let's go to the Pannikin and sit around and drink coffee.... Nah too much work.
DeleteDon't ever forget,this property PV was offered to the city for only four million and GASPAR RECUSED her self. The deal was with drawn .THANKS GASPAR THANKS FOR NOTHIN.
ReplyDeleteRight, GASpar ran and hid like the little baby she is. What a coward when her duty was to VOTE. That was inexcusable and yet this bimbo now blames the other three council people, when she could have made a difference.
DeleteDUMP GASPAR. She is a bonehead.
The property was offered, before Gaspar was elected, for $10 million. 2:27 is wrong. PV was never offered to the City for $4 Million. The only appraisal using local comps in the public/semi-public zoning was for $3.3 Million. Council unanimously offered $4.3 million. Baird rejected that offer, and threatened a public auction.
DeleteHe's a bait and switch man, a cheater. Target vote for Jen Hamler.
The Coast News would do well to hire an investigative reporter. The reporter's articles would increase readership, which would draw more advertisers at higher rates. The Coast News would be the buzz. Everybody would win except the bad guys.
ReplyDeleteThe Coast News had someone who reported facts based investigative commentary, it was the talk amongst some, the new editor apparently didn't like hard hitting facts, maybe he was pressured by special interests to go to he said she said reporting
DeleteWetahna Tucker reportedly left the CN because Jim Kydd scrapped her copy and ran his own versions of the truth under her by-line.
DeleteReporters at CN are not allowed to report. Kydd got fined, pled guilty, for not charging 'friends' for advertising: and he never disclosed that he helped bankroll Prop A early. Check out the 410.
Kydd and Tucker are good folks, Cagala is the reason the CN has gone downhill
DeleteChatfield sounds like the type of kid who found out crying would get him a lot of ice cream as a spoiled brat.
ReplyDeleteHe just took that approach the city level, and the three council members gave him Pacific View so he and his cohorts would stop crying.
Your right. the three lead by Kranz are idiots. Complete idiots. Pathetic!
DeleteI heard Chatfield was asked to use his group to help file an injunction to buy PV at a lower price, from what I hear Chatfield refused- by then he was in deep with Kranz and had a seat at the power table- he seems to be making the most of his photo spreads with KRanz and Shaffer
ReplyDeleteInteresting- Chatfield send out an email saying Kranz saved PV from housing, how did he do that when housing isn't allowed on the site? THink the unethical Shaffer will do anything? nope
Now PV turns up on the upzoning map and Chatfield's left holding a bag full of Kranz's hot air. Yee haw, good times ahead for Chatfield as he realizes he's been used by Barth and Kranz...oh, and Blakespear.
DeleteNo arts center for Scotty.
Kranz, Barf, and Shafter are dumber than dirt! All are bad for the tax payer just like $tock$ was.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand what happens to these council people when they get in office. I think it come from trying to be friends with the City Manager and staff instead of leading the City.
I have seen this before and by no means is this my original thought. I think what is happening is we are getting narcissistic people with low IQs to run, because people realize the extreme amount of time it takes to listen to all the bitching about every little detail.
As a result, we are having C to D level players serving to lead the City. The result is they have no clue what they are doing and let the City Manager go free.
In our case they hired a total Govement fed baby who has no real world experience. More like Hitler than a Reagan. I'd say more like a Fidel or Caesar.
bottom line with the line up we have running, we are f*&^ed.
We need smart people who have recently retired to step up and do their duty.
The meeting need not be that long. the only reason they are is because the idiots on Council and the city manager have no idea what they are doing. Many other Cities have two hour city council meetings with 75% of that being public comment.
Thoughts?
You are on the money. Idiots and assholes here in Mayberry by the Sea.
DeleteIt's also part of the defects of the Brown act. It allows a disorganized flood of issues to be presented in oral speaking, so the only reaction is to shut their ears. No other legislatures are faced with this.
DeleteThere can be a better way for individuals or groups to be heard. Perhaps an office of Ombudsman would work. With a real staff who gets back to people with the laws that limit response to their problem, maybe some non legislative suggestions, and then open access to city staff when they are not doing their job.
It would be an elected position maybe within the general law format. It could save money on law suits and if the people who want the job will not have to endure the ceremonial tedium that limits volunteers to the characteristics mentioned.
From what I have observed from watching these council meetings, the most important issues are all lumped together in one meeting which causes the meeting to go on for hours and hours.
ReplyDeleteThe city manager and mayor have no common sense in putting together an agenda. I believe this is done for a purpose so that we, the citizens, get fed up and will just go away.
Then, I see there are meetings that have no particular relevance and are over in short order.
If the agenda were put together in such a way to spread out the important issues and not have them all in the same meeting, perhaps things would get done in a more efficient way.
I do realize that this council has no clue that they are in charge. The city manager is running everything, including the council, and is not looking out for the best interests of the taxpayers who pay the bills. He is desperately trying to ruin our city and the council is helping him in that regard.
Too bad. We need more intelligent, informed and enlightened council people.
We can not afford to have GASpar as mayor for two more years. This is not a popularity contest. She has had her time as "Queen" and has shown me nothing in terms of leadership. I doubt that her MOA will change if she continues on as mayor.
We need new leadership and November is the time to get it done.
There is no reason why a minor or major use permit couldn't allow an art gallery and a small performing arts center. Those couldn't happen with tax exempt bonds, according to bond counsel, but the zoning allows for similar uses, more flexibility, through minor and major use permits. Just keep it within height guidelines of Prop A, or give the public a right to vote, to create a new zoning, for an art district.
ReplyDeleteI vote NO to rezoning PV. You people wanted to own a shithole and a shithole it will stay. NO to rezone or any permits for PV .
DeleteBecause vina and his lap dog murphy have tied the lifeguard station to PV for funding he has created a completely needless difficulty. These should never have been combined.
ReplyDeleteThe lifeguard station will never provide revenue so why was it added to PV that was always intended to have revenue producing tenants to help pay for it.
This is about as dumb as they come to let this be financed as one. The lifeguard station can be financed with tax exempt bonds and save a considerable amount.
PV needs the taxed bonds so we have can profit producing tenants. How simple is this? What the heck are our highly paid city staff up to that they can ignore this simplest of ideas.
One thing they do know how to do is beat a dead horse until it becomes dog food.
How can our council continue to let them keep producing inferior work and not call them on it?
All but two candidates will bring more of the same.
Vote Julie and Sheila for real change. Vote for the others for more of the same.