I interacted with Marlena when she was at Patch and she was very nice and very responsive. We were trying to get a community oriented article submitted and she was great (much better response than i had with the NC Times, maybe they all knew the end was near...).
Staff already bought the Peek democracy plan leaving the council out in the cold for any decision other than yes. Say no council - tell staff including Vina who is boss. Vina and staff kicked council in their collective butt.
Vina - pants on fire. He kept telling the council they would have time to look at three different companies. He didn't keep that promise. Get rid of Vina.
They abstained because the contract was already signed prior to tonight's vote. I thought they showed backbone and stood up to Vina. I can't say that for the rest!
Totally agree 12:07. If this deal was really already signed, sealed and delivered, at least Muir and Gaspar let there thoughts be known by abstaining. Why bother to note NO when it is a done deal-if it was? Does anyone really know if it was already selected and Council was just a rubber stamp?
Save Encinitas….. I will vote for any council candidate who commits to firing Vina. I will not vote for any of these incumbents. Worthless in their one main task which is to provide the City a good City Manager.
Why would anyone want to participate in an unscientific survey that stands a risk of revealing a user's identity and possible retaliation? There are no valid results generated from this exercise. It is a step back in time since it feels like jeopardizing private voting. There is a serious downside to this program. It is another program that looks legitimate but is only a way to manipulate opinions and collect the comments of the Rotary Club and others of their ilk.
Therein lies the rub. I was at another meeting so did not get to watch or attend. From what I can discern, this program has not been vetted by statisticians as to there reliability and validity. Anytime you don't have a random sample, or as Wc said, an opt in or out sample, you cannot know the reliability or validity of what you are attempting to either find out or share. Basic statistic 101 ( or as we used to say "Sadistics" . Nevertheless without a true random sample, no questionnaire is worth much. Not sure if that is what Peak Democracy is attempting, as I don't know much about it. I know many people who don't want the City to know their IP addresses or their names, and given the retaliatory nature of past Councils, I can certainly understand why. Not sure I will participate.
Peak Democracy is a communist tool under the guise of democracy. Is it not clictivism but collectivism where a few organize the many. The biggest joke about that presentation is that it has nothing to do with local governance and everything to do with OFA seeking tools to organize. as we jsut saw in Texas it's also a meanx of collecting data on residents for future use. very scary
Barth made a comment that the blogs are cesspools.
At least our cesspools are free and are not paid for by tax dollars like Peak Democracy and the MIG blogs. The sales guy kept telling them that they would need no staff time and that the comments would be monitered.
Too bad we are paying for a program for Vina to get some possitive comments posted. I also think the name Peak Democracy does not represent what it actually does.
Why does Gus Vina think that Encinitas citizens would go to the Recreation Guide to vote on Planning Issues? It sounds to me like the communication skills at the City are worse than I thought if they are going to try to do outreach in front of the tap dancing section om the Recreation Guide!
Could it be that he want to just say that he sent it, and consider the worst way to reach every adult in Encinitas?
This really surprises me. City public meetings aren't a scientific survey either. Even statistically valid polls are highly dependent on how the instrument is constructed/worded and, as many past political polls have shown, only show current attitudes which can change quickly. There is no magic here.
Peak Democracy is no silver bullet but then none of them are. It can be successful if it gets more people involved and both educates and records people's opinion.
As far as IP addresses go, most of us don't have permanent addresses. Even though your computer will hang on to it's assigned address for awhile, they do expire. I doubt the city will try to track down someone through an IP address just because of their opinions.
As far as the Peak Democracy contract goes it sounds like the one year, $9,000 contract would be below the threshold requiring council approval. It really does sound like it is a pilot project, not only for the software but the whole online engagement process. After one year they can walk away and since that $9,000 includes hands on support throughout the year, it's not that bad a deal.
And no, I'm not the city spin doctor, employee, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Shaffer is meekly asking about the street closing on Vulcan this weekend. Wake up Shaffer! Staff is under your direction not the other way! Bobbleheads never learn.
Naming rights?? Does this mean enc sports park may someday be known as the Surfy Surfy sports park? Surfy Surfy being a meg super gigantic Leucadia corporation.
Unless Surfy Surfy has a lot of money I doubt if they will get naming rights. Who knows, maybe the new Park will one day be called "Illuminati Park" or better yet, Stocks, Sabine and Vina Park park. After the law firm so to speak.
New phone app from the city to help you visit the city parks. ( just another feel good nothing that I don't want on my phone.) Gee I wonder if the app will show no restroom facilities for Leucadia beaches??
New parks app for your phone. History, features - number of barbeques, alcohol allowed - why wasn't that mention. News break for parks and rec staff - if you live here you know where the parks are.
Barth question on why parks and rec instead of public works takes care of streetscape landscaping. Look back to Phil Cotton and Hazeltine parks and rec director when the change occurred. No single maintenance contractor.
The senior center doesn't want those seniors eating or drinking in the library room, computer room and the rest of the senior area. No eating or drinking signs all over the place.
Enc senior center falling apart. HVAC to be replaced, lasted 12 years. Hmmm my office a/c lasted 22 years, used every day. Says then need new furniture .....
Citizen wants a park for drones. Apparently this guy knows nothing about the Leucadia club, just go do it. LC wishing they had kept their mouths shut and just held their little meetings anonymously. This guy wants city permission..why?? Gaspar alive... Says she is up at 5 am. Friends of Enc library taking credit for 98% of city library programs. Park and Rec to take over library.....ordered by Putin ???
And Gaspar practices circular breathing, a technique used by didgeridoo players so that they can blow continuously. That's how she talks nonstop without an apparent need to come up for air.
I can't take this anymore. Some of us need to work in the am. Wait, Muir sucking up to P and R. Wants them to upgrade Mullens park... Why did he stop at the park?? P and R controls city medians, why not upgrade those also??
City medians are paid from the landscape and light assessments. City wants to assess more fees to feed the general fund. Problem is that prop 218 requires a vote and council wants the medians to be in bad shape to get the voters to approve a higher fee.
And you now know why at least some of us left certain Commissions.. It was a bit much. So far no exit interviews, as council said would be a good idea. However, that's all they said. Nothing has happened. Seems to be a lot of that going around at City Hall.
I feel sorry for Marlena. She is wonderful and did a great job to elevate Patch to an interesting on-line locate news site. Now she thrown it the pit of hell with spin master Gustavo.
She can always quit and rebuild the Patch… Its worthless now.
It a free country so far. What she should do is gather all the dirt and then quit and write about it. Is sell your soul to a none sellout of encinitas and selling out your own integrity in the process worth a job with City as Vin'a blog poster?
I would think that nice and smart Marlena would think not, but we shall see how smart and how deep runs her integrity.
If she had any contact with Gus she should have already known better or asked around. I don't feel sorry for her one bit. She makes a hell of a lot of money for doing so far very little. I'll save my sympathy foe people who are trying to make a difference in this city without working for it. People who really deserve praise. Hell I could have written Patch things. It was no big deal. And lots of people are nice around here. And if she is so wonderful, why didn't you warn her 11:22. "Mr. Non-Sympathtic to most City employees at this point."
1. Tony challenging a lame report from staff to sell a asset at pennies on the dollar.
2. Constituents that care about their city who want a City Manager that can downsize the cost of the huge City Hall and put a small fraction of our tax dollars to projects verses supplying huge salaries and pensions.
3. We live in a great beach town.
4. Citizens are focused on correcting the imperialistic attitudes at City Hall and change the focus on selling out the town to developers to raise taxes to pay for their huge pensions and ill plans.
5. Today will be a beautiful day. Hopefully you can get outside and move around a bit. It will clear your head and make you think more productively. Bonus- You will feel more peaceful and loving inside.
Peak Democracy has nothing to do with it name nor with the goals of increasing trust and enhancing citizen participation that Gus VIna presented. Gus Vina is interested in taxpayers funding a separate blog for his family and friends to post favorable comments about him since he knows he is losing ground with the public. In discussion with friends and neighbors, the comments about Gus Vina and the council are actually worse than what we read online. Vina had his own staff fill out surveys for the Health Element of the General Plan. Maybe he will ask staff to fill out positive feedback for him on this venue also.
Gus Vina has been a disaster for Encinitas, and he had already signed a contract with Peak Democracy and made the decision for the council. Another vender was called "Mind Mixer," at least is an accurate description of what these businesses actually do. This is a citizen-funded propaganda operation for Gustavo and Teresa.
Instead of whining and denigrating your former supporters I have a recommendation for Gustavo and Teresa. Stop lying! Your credibility at this point is in the toilet. If Barth’s former supporters are warming up to Gaspar and Muir, the reason is simple. There is nothing worse than a traitor, and they are not hypocrites since Gaspar has clearly indicated that she supports the building industry and Muir supports city staff and public unions. Barth holds the position of mayor, but at public events, after the picture for her scrapbook is taken and the ribbon has been cut, she is largely shunned.
I am a bit late to this discussion. If it is not too much trouble could someone elaborate on Gus Vina having already 'bought/purchased/signed' a contract with this Peak Democracy organization before the council met?
Is this similiar to his Rutan and Tucker decision?
Gaspar and Muir abstained because of this exact point - they didn't seem to be happy with Vina or Staff. I can't figure out why the others supported Vina without even questioning it.
Teresa Barth is well liked by the Mainstreet Associations because she is mayor; they sponsored her only "private" State of the City Address last year, and they are being subsidized, by the City, year after year, without having to compete for grants, through the Community Grants program, as other non profits must. The City essentially pays for a full time director, now for L101MA, when the position, before was always part time. Plus is the director the "manager" of the Sunday Farmer's Markets at Paul Ecke Central? Because someone told me that the money is split three ways, between the Parent Teacher Association, L101MA and the "Manager," whomever that is. I feel more money from the vendors rents should go to the children, through the PTA.
The newly rebranded 101 Mainstreet Associations are obviously developer slanted, Cardiff being the least offensive. But these groups are city SPONSORS as well as subsidiaries, and their Boards of Directors all lobbied/campaigned against the grassroots initiative, Prop A. Fortunately, Encinitas citizens were smart enough to see through the lies and pretense.
Other cities have self-sustaining chambers of commerce, and we should, too. The relationship that is ongoing is more about politics and insider influence than fairness, and economic sustainability for everyone, not just city employees, contractors, sponsors/subsidiaries and Council Members.
Andrew, just as Rutan and Tucker were already chosen, by Vina, so was Peak Democracy, and so, apparently was the eminent domain consultant, Linda Bartz, who was also "briefed" (prepped) for a couple of hours, by Vina and Sabine, before her presentation to Council and the public, when she complied with a much more negative spin, than pre-briefing, in her written report.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Vina said when caught wi the Rutan contract in his hand. Fine, he can sign without oversight. Why though did he say he "had a firm in mind" when he'd already signed the contract? Why did he tell residents that night "I can't remember the name of the firm I had in mind"?
Please, stop covering for this greedy, conniving jerk.
And those two abstentions mean ZIP when they and we know that in Sabine's world, an abstention = a yes vote and that's how he's counting them.
It's the sham of all these examples that should make everyone sick. They're indefensible.
Why ask us to pay for another invalid, piece of shit program to benefit Gus Vina? He wants to restore trust by having people place lies on a new site that claim he is doing a good job. No thank you.
Oh, so the three council people who knew about the contact signing prior to a public hearing and knowingly violated the Ralph M. Brown Act are innocent, but you are sickened by an abstention of the two council members who protested?
Hypocrisy Central. Doesn't this remind you of when Teresa cut a deal with Patrick and Diane on the new General Plan behind Gaspar's back and when Gaspar complained and publicly reported about Barth misleading the subcommittee behind closed-doors Barth accused Gaspar of violating the Brown Act and that was the UT headline rather than Barth's chicanery?
How about Barth complaining to B.H. from the S.D. Foundation that the Brown Act stops her from talking to more than 3 people? Barth meant council people, not residents and the correct number is 1 other Encinitas council person that she can speak to about Agenda Items, not 3. 8 years on the council and still cannot get it correct.
Amir was a man who had ACE Cars and Trucks on our block of 101 a few years back. Dad used to visit him frequently. One day Dad said: "There have been 3 people ask how much that Jeep is per month since I've been sitting here. Doesn't anybody ever ask what the price is anymore?" Amir responded: "No. And if they do, I tell 'em it's none of their damn business!" Haven't had time to review last night's details of Peak Democracy, but haven't heard anyone mention the annual cost of the service either. But what good would the service be if it informed the public about issues the same way the ballot arguments did last election? As far an invading your privacy or IP address, there is no privacy in this country so get used to it. My argument would be what's so hard about creating the city's own annex to their website for polling the public and recieving their comments on any issue? Does this really need to be subbed out? AND, how much does it cost? It is our business.
If there is no statistical reliability and validity whatever information the City receives will be worth very little. And, there should not be more than a 3to 4% margin of error. I wonder if anyone at the City has looked at that. And if they have, are they sure it not statistically flawed? Just wondering, as I could not be there last night, and the meeting took some time, so I haven't looked at the tape.
It is worse than that Dr. L! Most people who read this blog know what you are talking about (although Gaspar, Muir, and occasionally Lisa would too) Teresa and Tony don't understand this stuff. This program Peak Democracy has NOTHING to do with democracy, but some people might think it is a valid process. At least, that is what Gus Vina is hoping.
Fred, the web work would probably have to be subbed out, but it could be done.
Peak Democracy is an "Out of the Box" solution, developed by these guys in Berkley. I think it's more about preventing certain people from dominating the discussion than it is about tracking you.
It's a boring programming thing I won't to go into, but your IP address or location is used by a lot of companies out there on the web. The same thing is true of Amazon.com. It's called "personalization" in the industry. It's the same way even Youtube decides which ads to serve you.
The rule of the road is as always, don't give away more info than you have to, and make sure it's https when using a CC.
The bottom line is, what's the cost of Peak Democracy, what do they hope to achieve? I think very little will occur in terms of results...
Mr Green Jeans - Berkeley? enough said. Home of the intolerant radical communist left. The take over of goverment envisioned by 60's radicals is complete. The very thing they railed against are now who they are. Peak Democracy is about controlling freedom of thought and expression, limiting participation, controlling data and collecting information to harass and intimidate those with opposing views. on animal farl and at berkeley some animals are more equal than others................those animals who control the system. as a one time Barth supporter she has turned out to be an epic weak kneed follower, dump barth this year
Teresa continues to be taken in by invalid programs presented on computer interfaces and other passing fads because she lacks basic knowledge of statistics and ethical survey practices. This is true of every city employee I have met as well, so naturally they lack the ability to evaluate the quality of the projects they support. Barth supports poor processes like the MIG fiasco, Peder Norby’s role as “facilitator,” the dot exercise, Gustavo’s “passion” of strategic planning, Peak Democracy and anything brought forward by Gus Vina or Marco Gonzalez because she is influenced by bad information rendered in a Power Point, bar chart, a visual graph, or a computer-assisted mapping program. She is even more blinded when these initiatives are presented by oily salesmen who are there primarily to extract taxpayer dollars for themselves to deliver poor quality or useless programs to citizens that we never wanted in the first place.
The city continues to bring in a continuous stream of consultants and programs to spend our money on more and more processes without ever presenting valid results. When pressed for specific information about any of his failed performance, Vina goes to his stock answer of, “there is more to come, and we will have a presentation about this later!”
From Lisa Shaffer's newsletter. Take what you want and leave the rest. his plan represents change. We are taking small steps, at relatively low cost, to use 21st century technology to provide more opportunities to educate the public, share important information, and receive meaningful public feedback. The plan does not require investment in infrastructure. There is ample earmarked funding for public outreach and education to cover the costs. As with any tool, online civic engagement systems can be used well, or can be abused. We have a responsibility to make sure we are using it appropriately and presenting any results honestly and accurately.
We all agreed that clear guidelines are needed to protect staff from any political influence in shaping questions or interpreting results. The results will not be binding referendums and they won't be the only source of public input. So I was disappointed and confused by the lack of support from two of my colleagues. I appreciate all the effort that went into the development of the communications plan and I hope that we can come together and promote public participation to make the output as broadly based and useful as possible. As soon as registration information is available, I will pass it along and encourage you to do the same.
"I was disappointed and confused by the lack of support from two of my colleagues"
As has become all to common Lisa Whiner signs off on a another Vina's failure- then uses her newsletter to blame others
Hey- Lisa Whiner - what about the other programs and options Vina talked about exploring with the council? did you know a decision had alredy been made before the meeting began - it sure didn't sound like Muir and Gaspar did -
Hey -Lisa Whiner- how about standing with Muir and Gaspar and holding Vina accountable to the council? Instead you hold the council accountable to Vina-
Really, Lisa Whiner sounds more and more like a limousine liberal with every newsletter- it's all about me, what about me, look at me-
Intersting, before Shaffer ran for office I never saw her at a council meeting or at a workshop- yet she and Barney Barth denigrate residents who watch city hall every chance they can-
I supported Shaffer, I won't be supporting her again- right now only Muir and Gaspar are standing up to Vina and his failed leadership and policies
Shaffer is relatively new to Encinitas: she married into the City. Her resume showed only one previous moment of community voluntary action: a short spate in Santee in visiting a children's school: aside from that her supporters made a big deal out of her wearing a yellow vest at a garden/mansion tour. Its clear to anyone watching the public meetings that she doesn't like the public, staff or her peers, hence the "Don't Blame Me" newsletter every week.
If you represent people, shouldn't you like people, first?
As to the Mayor, 8 years ago when she was first elected, she accused her peers of criminal behavior for violating the Brown Act and then after 6 months of not representing those who elected her, a letter from the State Attorney General informing her about how wrong she and Ehlers were: not for the first time. Now, 7 years plus, Wednesday night she complains to an out-of-town consultant, B.H. that the Brown Act is stopping her from doing her job.
It would be laughable if it wasn't so terribly sad. Ticket-taking at the summer fair doesn't take any problem solving skills: they are color-coded. Now, raising taxes, planting fruit trees everywhere, angrily hushing the public every week: and clearly Shaffer, Kranz and Barth had discussed Marlene Medford's contract and 'Plan/Contract' prior to a public hearing: a clear violation of State transparency laws.
Wow, you make it sound like moving here is a crime! I still say the jury's out on Lisa, and no, she doesn't have a warm manner. I knew that when I campaigned for her. That said, I'd like to see more from her chair.
What was the issue Weds with Barth and the Brown act, I haven't had a chance to watch the meeting.
Sounds like a fantasy if you think Muir and Gaspar are "standing up" to Vina. Muir is there to support Firefighter pensions and Gaspar represents the developers. Other than those reasons, they would not be on council.
True, but they have at least opposed El President - the three blind mice have not. Dump Barney Barth - she is a weak kneed failure. Higher taxes, higher fees, that is who Barth is
So many problems with this, but I will not rant on over this any more, as it has not done any good. It has been decided. So, either opt in or out, that is the choice my fellow citizens. If you like it, go for it. If you don't, well then don't sign up.
Go Bears! LOL. It's probably as simple as creating an email address not linked to your real name. That's how I'm registered with Facebook, which is also not under my real name.
I was just listening to Vina's presentation. He claims that the reason that Encinitas citizens are distrustful of government is because of the City of Bell. Gus, that story came to light years ago, and I have never heard anyone say that the lack of trust citizens have in the City of Encinitas is because of the City of Bell. I have heard many people say that Gus Vina is one of the main reasons that the City of Encinitas is worse than ever before since Gus rewards low standards and models terrible ethics.
Could you please provide us with any examples of what you have done to inspire trust? You are so bad that the council is in jeopardy of being kicked out the next time they run, and even the new communications director who is now linked with you, is not embraced because you hired her.
When he got here, he told attendees at his "get to know you" meetings that he was glad to be out of Sacramento, where residents were "apathetic." Definitely a case of placing blame where it does NOT belong. Vina is the common denominator for resident distrust and apathy, another word for "we give up."
Not even counting the council who he manipulates, Gus has over 200 people who report to him. How he can play the victim card while being paid a quarter mil per year and for the rest of his life when he retires is hard to stomach.
This city council is a joke and should be ashamed of themselves. Two of them drone on through their nasal passages way too long and end up saying NOTHING of any substance. If someone on the council would have asked if a contract had been signed with Peak Democracy, hours of time could have been saved, but, they let that wonderful city manager do whatever he desires. They only found out when a light bulb hit Muir in terms of cost. We need to have people on council more in touch with what is going on. They all sit there meeting after meeting asking stupid questions. They should do their research ahead of time. I will NOT vote for one single one of them and God help us whoever is the next mayor. I hope it is not nasal Gaspar or the other one. I would have to wear ear plugs.
I looked at parts of the webcast. Julie Graboi did an excellent job as the ONLY public speaker for the communications portion of the Special Meeting on Wednesday, March 5.
What bothered me the most, about what I saw was the "slickness" of the man promoting Peak Democracy. I didn't like his stressing how the plan was to avoid the "referendum effect," and insisting that Peak Democracy doesn't use "vote" anywhere in its "platform." This is a case where what is being advocated is LESS direct democracy, not more. Peak Democracy seems to be a clever marketing term, calling something exactly what it is not.
The reason Gaspar and Muir abstained and didn't vote no, is because they were not happy the contract had already been signed. Therefore, there was no REASON to vote no. It was a "done deal." They signified their unhappiness by abstaining. Even had they not abstained, the majority would have prevailed.
Not one of the majority of Tony, Teresa and Lisa, addressed the solitary public speaker's excellent questions and concerns. This was a "process not a project" being sold to benefit Council and staff, not the citizens. It's a way to filter input to make it fit better with staff's pre-formed conclusions, especially the City Manager's "directives" and his cabinet.
I am glad that Kristin and Mark did stand up, and abstained. I'm very disappointed in Lisa, once again, that she can't understand how this is a tool to actually further insulate Council and staff from public opinion.
Direct democracy can be messy. I wouldn't characterize the entire "blogosphere" as being a cesspool, because of anonymous comments, allowed. I have learned a great deal from anonymous posters on this blog, and others. Some of the comments can be cruel and defamatory. Being a good moderator is a big job, as it requires a good sense of judgment, and also the ability to keep up with current events. My opinion, WCV is doing a good job.
Gus Vina, Glenn Sabine and our current Council Majority are NOT doing a good job when they attempt to find a way to justify their pre-formed conclusions, already put into effect by the City Manager. He is running the show, and they are too compliant and too swayed by fast-talking sales people clicking through powerpoint presentations with elaborate graphs and charts, to ask the important questions.
I will be very glad when Teresa's last six months as mayor are up. That's coming up, soon. My hope is that Kristin will be better at giving the City Manager direction, rather than the other way around, as has been the case for the last year, going on 1 1/2 years.
It's also ironic that the meeting was to be about communications, but there was no opportunity for oral communications. The Brown Act defines Regular Meetings as those Council Meetings that have at least 72 hour notice. This was scheduled ahead of time, and regular notice was given. Oral Communications should have been allowed, so that people didn't have to endure tedious presentations by marketing agents, pushing their agenda to Council, not the public. Some people may have attended the beginning of the meeting in order to speak for three minutes on non-agenda items. But Mayor Barth almost always seems more concerned about form than the reason behind it. She seems more concerned about control, placing blame, than content, and communication with the public, at Council Meetings, BEFORE decisions are made. She seems to think of open govt. now as a hindrance to her being able to pre-discus with her "colleagues."
Apparently, Ms. Barth can't see the forest for the trees. She used to give links to this particular "cesspool" in her newsletters. Those days are long gone. I
One of the Maxims of Jurisprudence, part of the Code of Civil Procedure, is: content is more important than form.
All that being said, the City already has all my info, including my home address, IP address and e-mail address. And yes, I've already seen retribution.
Nevertheless, I'll probably register, because I don't want the only input being considered to be that solicited through our ersatz chambers of commerce, special interests, such as building industry lobbyists, and various other insiders peddling influence and pushing their agenda on often unwilling residents, who seldom, if ever follow the antics and tactics at City Hall.
2:00 I agree for the most part. The more Encinitans involved, the better the assessment of public opinion would be. But it all should be up front with exactly how many pollers sign up for the service (so that could be compared with the maximum postential of how many could), and verifiable with any citizen - just as people who speak at city meetings have to give their name and town they live in. Those things especially would keep shilling at bay. Also, would this service be limited to Encinitas registered voters, or anyone 18 or older? I understand one council person's objection was it might give one side of an issue an advantage by "rallying the troups". But isn't that how every election proceeds? At least it would keep interests from other citys out of the picture. If Peak Democracy is $9K per year, that's not sounding too bad as I've seen a lot more money go toward programs that had little benefit at all. I would still question why it would cost that same amount each year once it was put in motion and would also wonder if they have a minimun of years contract attached.
Traditionally, people provide their name and city of residence when they speak at Council Meetings. Lisa Shaffer said at last week's meeting that "people don't have to provide their names!" How can the Clerk call them to speak, then? Council could and should ask speakers to provide their City of residence, just as participants would, and have, for online input and feedback.
The Mayor and the Clerk can ask for someone's City of residence. The speaker has the ability to decline. The Brown Act does NOT say that potential speakers have to be informed this information is optional, only that it cannot be required in order to ATTEND MEETINGS.
Per Government Code Section 54953.3 Conditions to attendance at meetings
"A member of the public shall not be required, as a condition to attendance at a meeting of a legislative body of a local agency, to register his or her name, to provide other information, to complete a questionnaire, or otherwise to fulfill any condition precedent to his or her attendance.
If an attendance list, register, questionnaire, or other similar document is posted at or near the entrance to the room where the meeting is to be held, or is circulated to the persons present during the meeting, it shall state clearly that the signing, registering, or completion of the document is voluntary, and that all persons may attend the meeting regardless of whether a person signs registers or completes the document."
Lisa Shaffer has now further misconstrued this Section of the Brown Act to mean that SPEAKERS do not even have to provide their names! That is preposterous; how would the Clerk call someone forward. This Section of law is referring to public agencies not being able to ask for people's personal information in order for them to attend meetings. There is GOOD REASON for Council, through the Clerk, to ask people to state their name and city of residence, if they intend to testify before Council.
Speaking at a Council Meeting is voluntary. But if someone does elect to speak, that person can easily provide his or her name and city of residence, so that Council can better weigh their testimony.
Peak Democracy will require registration, which will include City of residence, as I feel it should. Because Encinitas taxpayers are paying for this "process," and we want the opinions of local residents to have greater weight than out of town special interests.
To me a terrible example of what can happen when neither the Mayor nor the Clerk ask for a speaker's City of residence is what took place on 1/30/13. Bicyclists, many or most of them from outside of Encinitas, were rallied at the Dudek Building the night before the Council Meeting, by Leucadia 101 Mainstreet Association. They were again rallied, including through Facebook and other social media, to come to the council meeting the next evening. They arrived en masse, and dominated the public speakers' discussion. Locals did provide their names and cities of residence. But the vast majority of bicyclist speakers did not.
Brian Grover later apologized to me in the lobby, hoping that we didn't feel "bullied." But we did. The bicyclist club members came into our town and kept repeating the single tragic collision, which happened in April of 2011, repeating it over and over, without explaining it was the same accident, or what City they resided in, or even where the accident(s) they were referring to occurred, in many cases.
Hey, I love bicycling, and I love bicyclists, in general, but there are a few very aggressive types that seem to feel they don't have to comply with the rules of the road, which include traveling single file, except in Sharrows, when a bicyclist going the speed of traffic could pass a bicyclist riding to the right, and including bicyclists traveling in bicycle lanes, except when bicyclists are passing one another.
So it's a bad thing that a group of people organized and came out en masse to speak? I applaud them.
And if you don't like it, gather your own group to speak. It's that simple. Anything else is sour grapes. Everyone has a right to speak, and yes, I would prefer they give their city, but I welcome them to speak either way.
Here's the bottom line that I've gotten from some cyclists I know, and that is, the wider you ride, the more chances you take. A bike is going to lose against a car every time.
As much as I don't like it, I give them the right of way. I'm not going to be the guy who whacks a bike if I can avoid it. Everything else is just huffing and puffing. I'd rather spend an extra 30 seconds to go around them, or wait to turn right. Save your self the agony, drive in the left lane.
Lynn, you constantly repeat the erroneous statement that cyclists must travel single file. You are wrong, the people you cite are wrong. It is not the law.
And, yes, smart cyclists know that no matter whether they are within their rights or not, the cyclists loses every time.
what is your point 11:20? Barth, Shaffer and Phony Tony have voted and acted just like Stocks- oppoed A, spread misinformation and untruths, hold residents in disdain, hide behind Vina, Sabine and city staff- these are all facts
Barth is Stocks - own it Teresa -you are a weak kneed failure- shame on you. Many will actively campaign against you if you run-
# 1 priority for all encinitas residents needs to be getting rid of Sabine and Vina. There will be no meaningful change until we rally around this and make it happen.
FRED, YOUR COMMENT IS EXACTLY WHAT GUS VINA AND COUNCIL HOPE FOR AS A PLAN TO DERAIL PROP A AND THE GENERAL PLAN!
"If Peak Democracy is $9K per year, that's not sounding too bad as I've seen a lot more money go toward programs that had little benefit at all. I would still question why it would cost that same amount each year once it was put in motion and would also wonder if they have a minimun of years contract attached."
REMEMBER, the MIG GPU was presented to us as a "template" as a means of "saving money!" What MIG sold us was a retread of General Plans from other clients for which they had already been paid! The Advanced Planning staff wrote pages of filler, so that the DRAFT Plan was almost 800 pages long! For Encinitas with a population of 60,000 and 19 square miles, they gave us a plan that was longer than the LA County General Plan and charged us between 2 and 3 million dollars!
FRED, they keep repackaging every failed attempt to get the kind of "citizen participation" that they are seeking to justify high density. People worked hard to derail the GPU, the dot exercise, and every other attempt to ignore ACTUAL citizen comments. When these attempts were thrown out, they hired Marlena who will take her laptop to the Rotary Club and the Senior Center and get a more narrowly biased, preselected group to say that they LOVE Encinitas and want more density! Don't be fooled! It is the same thing in a different wrapper!
Because, generally speaking, the electorate likes the leadership of City Hall: its only when Ehler's invests in a false 5 Story dog-and-pony show or the SRF lights a fire under the residents downtown that the longtime activists win. It'll be shortlived just like Sheila being removed in 2000.
Shaffer included a 1,100+ word sales pitch for the new "communications strategy" in her newsletter. The strategy includes Peak Democracy's Open Town Hall software.
If the software has value as a democratic tool, wouldn't there be ringing endorsements from ordinary citizens who are constituents of the more than 80 government agencies where the software is used?
Shaffer appears to have inadvertently revealed the software's true purpose: It provides "well regulated public input."
The council and staff don't like what they've been hearing from citizens, so they're looking for a way to cook up something more palatable.
Peak Democracy could and surely would be used as a tool to twist the public perception of what consensus thinking is; if questions are not asked of a RANDOM sampling of citizens of Encinitas, and the answers are therefore not statistically significant, then why ask the questions? I feel the answer is: for propaganda purposes, to manipulate public opinion and provide a platform for Council and staff's special interest boosters, not the "little guy."
Again, the Mayor and the City Clerk should immediately begin asking all public speakers to provide, when they begin to speak before Council, and on their speaker slips, their names and cities of residence. A phone number is requested so that staff, as directed by Council and the City Manager, can follow up with those speakers who take the time and make the effort to give presentations on non-agenda items, or otherwise. Providing a phone number should be optional, but it's a good idea if one asks for follow-through.
Again, although Tony Kranz asked, twice, in his motion for the initial trial period to be for six months, a contract had already been signed, in February for a "one year pilot program." After one year, the $9,000 rate would likely increase. Hopefully, the contract will not be renewed, and should not be renewed without PRE-APPROVAL of Council, not another after the fact, meaningless vote. There was no public hearing allowing the public to weigh in at a regularly scheduled Council Meeting. In the future, I feel Council should modify what requires their approval, down to contracts for anything over $5,000, even if that approval is only through an item placed on the Consent Calendar. Gus Vina has far too much power in spending our taxpayer dollars on staff salaries and contrator/consultant fees, etc.
Peak Democracy pushes less direct democracy. More wolves in sheep's clothing tactics, more posturing and pretense, and massaging of statistically invalid data, designed to appeal to, appease and glorify our new, but temporary Council Majority of Teresa Barth, Lisa Shaffer, and Tony Kranz.
As was stated at the Council Meeting on Wednesday, March 5, if it's not a random sampling, then Marlena Medford, or any members of staff can actively recruit certain people to give certain answers. The process was designed and billed as a tool for staff and Council, not for the public, not to give more people a voice.
It's another method of control, to be used by Teresa and Lisa, and their papa-bear, Tony, who doesn't always go along, but has been a swing vote, to manipulate Council's images and discount the opinions of those who do watch city hall and who have been active in city government by attending meetings, stating our names, cities of residence, and sharing informed opinions as part of the public record.
How do you know the rate will likely increase? I guess that's a somewhat logical assumption, but without anything to back up that assumption, it's just that.
I think people are reading way more into this app than is there. Here's the bottom line, the makers of Peak Democracy, like everyone else, are in it for the money. They are not a non-profit. They are trying to sell their service.
If that's not apparent to the council, or any of the rest of us, then we should have our head examined.
I agree with Tony, 6 month pilot. If they like it, negotiate a deal. I would never expect a tool like this to be able to kick out good data, it's not designed for that. It's a way to let people "speak their mind", and yes, it limits responses, tracks who has registered etc, just like Amazon.com and a lot of other things we use every day. How do you think they track your preferences?
My take is, council and staff are probably going to go and do what they want either way, with our without this tool. People are going to keep following the trends they've set. Would Muir vote against pensions even if a survey told him he shouldn't? I think not.
For me, it's a question of money spent. Neogov is a good tool, because you can tie into a bigger pool of job applicants. But will Peak Democracy really increase engagement? How do you measure that anyway?
No company/city or other group has the time to "regulate" public input even on a moderated blog. You would have to sit there all day trying to remove 4 letter words. I know, I've done it. So when these guys show up, you can see why they're interested.
I'm ok with trying it out, but Like Tony, I want to see these guys work to make this a tool of value, don't just roll over for them and pant for it..
Recognizing this trend and consistent with earlier Council direction, a team of city staff researched online engagement systems and chose Open Town Hall, a system developed by Peak Democracy. The system costs $9,000/year in fees, which includes the software platform and a lot of advice and support by Peak Democracy experts for City staff. Peak Democracy is the leading provider of civic engagement systems and its systems are used by over 80 government agencies around the country. At the March 5 meeting, the co-founder gave an extensive presentation and demonstration of the various features. You can check it out here. Users must register, providing name, address, and email. The City can design other registration questions, such as whether you own a business or work in Encinitas. Responses can then be sorted and evaluated based on the demographic data about each user as well as their location.
Civic engagement is not about on-line voting. Open Town Hall and similar systems do not generate "scientific" surveys with associated sampling error statistics. While there are situations when a consultant should be hired to conduct such a survey, it's not practical or cost-effective to conduct such a survey on every issue. Furthermore, as all the Council recognizes, while we should be informed by public opinion, we were elected to make the decisions based on our best judgment of what is right for the community. Voting happens every 2 or 4 years, when the citizens make their choices directly.
And just as every eligible voter does not always choose to cast a vote in every election, it's not realistic or necessary for every resident to participate in the Open Town Hall. Open Town Hall is intended to educate the community about important topics, and to provide opportunities for comments and exchange of views using graphics and text. The idea is to augment the quality and quantity of input we get now from public speakers at Council meetings and poorly-attended workshops. At the Council meeting there were fewer than a dozen people present. But we know more people than that care about what's going on. We can't expect everyone to come to City Hall when we meet. What we can do is provide more avenues for input before, during, and after our meetings.
This plan represents change. We are taking small steps, at relatively low cost, to use 21st century technology to provide more opportunities to educate the public, share important information, and receive meaningful public feedback. The plan does not require investment in infrastructure. There is ample earmarked funding for public outreach and education to cover the costs. As with any tool, online civic engagement systems can be used well, or can be abused. We have a responsibility to make sure we are using it appropriately and presenting any results honestly and accurately.
We all agreed that clear guidelines are needed to protect staff from any political influence in shaping questions or interpreting results. The results will not be binding referendums and they won't be the only source of public input. So I was disappointed and confused by the lack of support from two of my colleagues. I appreciate all the effort that went into the development of the communications plan and I hope that we can come together and promote public participation to make the output as broadly based and useful as possible. As soon as registration information is available, I will pass it along and encourage you to do the same."
Because this is how they get paid! There's always a service element to these kind of online apps. I'm not defending it, but would Netflix give you a one time fee, no!
It's a yearly subscription. That's why you need to pilot it for 6 months....
9:40 Indeed, Prop A chiseling has already clearly begun within the wish list of the recent Economic Development Committee recomendations they made to the city. Anti-Prop A desires didn't surface at that meeting, but Prop A is singled out on their collection of things that stand to inhibit economic development. I wholly disagree.
And make no mistake 12:47. 5 story buildings for Encinitas was no dog and pony show, but a vision unanimously recommended by the city organized ERAC meetings. If their recommendations held no weight, what value would there be for the committee forming in the first place? To waste a lot of people's time and money? So yes 9:40, your concerns re/ Peak Democracy are duly noted. Anti-A folks' Plan A didn't work and Plan B has already surfaced so I don't doubt more plans will arise until they run out of the alphabet. And what a drag if half of the "Questions of the Week" were tools to (by hook or crook) dismantle Prop A. We can't rule that out.
Fred, you are usually quite accurate, but the GPAC, ERAC, Planning Commission and the citywide dot exercise all had comaptible choices for the council to make, but None of them recommended 5 story buildings anywhere. That's just hogwash promoted by Ehlers. It cannot be proven, because it never happened. None of those committees 'visioned' anything: they were asked to identify possible R-30 locations for a city map to go to HCD, that would either approve it or not. If you actually read the reports from the Gpac, Erac and PC delivered to the council last February, you'd know the truth.
6:58 Thanks for the kudos. And here's the clip you must have missed. You only need to watch the first 2 minutes or so to discover ERAC's unanimous reccomendation to the council was indeed that parts of Encinitas go up to 5 stories. I'm surprised only 426 people have watched this clip as of this moment.
6:58 step away from the crack pipe and stop smoking what you are inhaling -yes ERAC led by Doug Harwood and Peter Norby supported by Barth Gaspar and Muir recommended 5 story buildings - it's on video for all to see. Also for all to see is the pro development council of barth gaspar muir shaffer and kranz speading misinformation and untruths about Prop a -led by Vina.
This program seems to be a tool to create positive, feel good comments for city leaders instead of a means of capturing a cross section of citizen's views. I am worried that we will get hooked into the pilot program for a small amount of money, and then they will try to upsell us. The salesman said that to make it a valid tool would cost money.
Why would anyone even pay for an invalid tool except that they could game it to their own advantage (using our money)! If the goals of this agenda are to restore trust and to hear from Encinitas citizens, use acceptable methods to get at the truth.
Placing Gus' Strategic Plan in the Recreation Guide is only slightly more effective than distributing it like messages in a bottle and thowing them out into the ocean. The argument that this venue is "free" is just plain dumb!
Just because they are sending out messages doesn't mean that people are paying attention to them. Yet this is the main focus behind of all of their failed participation programs,
The slick sales guy for Peak Democracy who directed his comments to Gus Vina, Mike Alvarez Cohen, is himself running for city council in Berkeley!
This guy is like the owner of the Men's Hair Club. He is not only an owner but also a customer for a product that specializes providing high tech, ass-covering solutions to politicians and city workers.
If Gus and the council want to hire PR support like the new communications director or the Peak Democracy package, they should use their own out of pocket funds and not our tax money!
Slick Peak Democracy sales guy is running for council in Berkeley. Here is his page in case anyone wants to send him a check to supliment the $9,000 in tax money that Gus Vina gave him.
Can't wait to hear the negative comments.
ReplyDeleteNetwork - I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more. Are you listening city council.
ReplyDeletePeek democracy captures the resident's IP address.
ReplyDeleteDoes it? Where's the factual backup....
DeleteListen to the video. The representative said it. That's factual enough. Peek democracy capture the resident's IP address.
DeleteMuir just asked an awesome question about how opt-in surveys are completely biased.
ReplyDeleteSlick-talking vendor didn't have a good response.
I interacted with Marlena when she was at Patch and she was very nice and very responsive. We were trying to get a community oriented article submitted and she was great (much better response than i had with the NC Times, maybe they all knew the end was near...).
ReplyDeleteStaff already bought the Peek democracy plan leaving the council out in the cold for any decision other than yes. Say no council - tell staff including Vina who is boss. Vina and staff kicked council in their collective butt.
ReplyDeleteVina - pants on fire. He kept telling the council they would have time to look at three different companies. He didn't keep that promise. Get rid of Vina.
ReplyDeleteMaybe she nice and the city doesn't need the position .
ReplyDeleteMuir and Gaspar with a chance to show some backbone in voting no on the Peek democracy contract instead abstained which is the same as a yes vote.
ReplyDeleteCowards.
DeleteThey abstained because the contract was already signed prior to tonight's vote. I thought they showed backbone and stood up to Vina. I can't say that for the rest!
DeleteTotally agree 12:07. If this deal was really already signed, sealed and delivered, at least Muir and Gaspar let there thoughts be known by abstaining. Why bother to note NO when it is a done deal-if it was? Does anyone really know if it was already selected and Council was just a rubber stamp?
DeleteVina ignoring council completely. We see who answers to who.... Hey at least they are all fake nice and all...
ReplyDeleteIsn't that the "achievement" of which they are most proud? They all get along...like we give a rat's tush.
DeleteSome lady in a blue coat telling us how wonderful the city programs are...
ReplyDeleteSave Encinitas….. I will vote for any council candidate who commits to firing Vina. I will not vote for any of these incumbents. Worthless in their one main task which is to provide the City a good City Manager.
ReplyDeleteHe is growing Employee Costs, not shrinking them.
I thought Barth ran on that platform. Fire Vina and Sabine. What happened?
DeleteBarth interrupting the speaker... Speaker continuing to tell us how wonderful everything is, (except the streets.)
ReplyDeleteThe woman in blue is the parks and rec director, Lisa Rudloff. She takes no prisoners when she does her presentations.
ReplyDeleteShe takes no prisoners at all regardless if you are a staffer, Council person, or a Parks and Rec. Commissioners. Just ask Dr. Lorri.
DeleteWhy would anyone want to participate in an unscientific survey that stands a risk of revealing a user's identity and possible retaliation? There are no valid results generated from this exercise. It is a step back in time since it feels like jeopardizing private voting. There is a serious downside to this program. It is another program that looks legitimate but is only a way to manipulate opinions and collect the comments of the Rotary Club and others of their ilk.
ReplyDeleteTherein lies the rub. I was at another meeting so did not get to watch or attend. From what I can discern, this program has not been vetted by statisticians as to there reliability and validity. Anytime you don't have a random sample, or as Wc said, an opt in or out sample, you cannot know the reliability or validity of what you are attempting to either find out or share. Basic statistic 101 ( or as we used to say "Sadistics" . Nevertheless without a true random sample, no questionnaire is worth much. Not sure if that is what Peak Democracy is attempting, as I don't know much about it. I know many people who don't want the City to know their IP addresses or their names, and given the retaliatory nature of past Councils, I can certainly understand why. Not sure I will participate.
DeleteI won't participate ....
DeletePeak Democracy is a communist tool under the guise of democracy. Is it not clictivism but collectivism where a few organize the many. The biggest joke about that presentation is that it has nothing to do with local governance and everything to do with OFA seeking tools to organize. as we jsut saw in Texas it's also a meanx of collecting data on residents for future use. very scary
DeleteBarth made a comment that the blogs are cesspools.
DeleteAt least our cesspools are free and are not paid for by tax dollars like Peak Democracy and the MIG blogs. The sales guy kept telling them that they would need no staff time and that the comments would be monitered.
Too bad we are paying for a program for Vina to get some possitive comments posted. I also think the name Peak Democracy does not represent what it actually does.
Why does Gus Vina think that Encinitas citizens would go to the Recreation Guide to vote on Planning Issues? It sounds to me like the communication skills at the City are worse than I thought if they are going to try to do outreach in front of the tap dancing section om the Recreation Guide!
Could it be that he want to just say that he sent it, and consider the worst way to reach every adult in Encinitas?
This really surprises me. City public meetings aren't a scientific survey either. Even statistically valid polls are highly dependent on how the instrument is constructed/worded and, as many past political polls have shown, only show current attitudes which can change quickly. There is no magic here.
DeletePeak Democracy is no silver bullet but then none of them are. It can be successful if it gets more people involved and both educates and records people's opinion.
As far as IP addresses go, most of us don't have permanent addresses. Even though your computer will hang on to it's assigned address for awhile, they do expire. I doubt the city will try to track down someone through an IP address just because of their opinions.
As far as the Peak Democracy contract goes it sounds like the one year, $9,000 contract would be below the threshold requiring council approval. It really does sound like it is a pilot project, not only for the software but the whole online engagement process. After one year they can walk away and since that $9,000 includes hands on support throughout the year, it's not that bad a deal.
And no, I'm not the city spin doctor, employee, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Shaffer asking how events get approved w/o her ok.
ReplyDeleteAudio is gone, those at home must read lips.....
ReplyDeleteShaffer is meekly asking about the street closing on Vulcan this weekend. Wake up Shaffer! Staff is under your direction not the other way! Bobbleheads never learn.
ReplyDeleteAnd Lisa is also what 2 parks and rec. commissioners decided not to be on the commission again. At least that's what I heard.
ReplyDeleteBarth saying something. Still no audio... Wait audio is back. 18 minute gap.....
ReplyDeleteAh the old 18 minute gap story once again. Didn't I hear that once about Nixon and his 18 minute gap in tape?
DeleteBarth seen lip syncing "I am not a crook!"....
DeleteNaming rights?? Does this mean enc sports park may someday be known as the Surfy Surfy sports park? Surfy Surfy being a meg super gigantic Leucadia corporation.
ReplyDeleteThose who benefit from parks and rec services ultimately pay for those services.
ReplyDeleteUnless Surfy Surfy has a lot of money I doubt if they will get naming rights. Who knows, maybe the new Park will one day be called "Illuminati Park" or better yet, Stocks, Sabine and Vina Park park. After the law firm so to speak.
ReplyDeleteMuir Donut Den
DeleteNew phone app from the city to help you visit the city parks. ( just another feel good nothing that I don't want on my phone.)
ReplyDeleteGee I wonder if the app will show no restroom facilities for Leucadia beaches??
New parks app for your phone. History, features - number of barbeques, alcohol allowed - why wasn't that mention. News break for parks and rec staff - if you live here you know where the parks are.
ReplyDeleteBuy a bench..... Help the city balance it's budget.
ReplyDelete$1600 bucks...
DeleteDoesn't Vina get about $1,000 per day?? That won't go very far!
DeleteAll beaches are on a first come first serve basis. Ahhh someone might want to tell her that as a family tries to use the volleyball sands.
ReplyDeleteParks and recreation dept responsible for shitty city medians.
ReplyDeleteSomeone save us. Bizzarocinitas.
ReplyDeleteBarth question on why parks and rec instead of public works takes care of streetscape landscaping. Look back to Phil Cotton and Hazeltine parks and rec director when the change occurred. No single maintenance contractor.
ReplyDeleteThe senior center doesn't want those seniors eating or drinking in the library room, computer room and the rest of the senior area. No eating or drinking signs all over the place.
Enc senior center falling apart.
ReplyDeleteHVAC to be replaced, lasted 12 years. Hmmm my office a/c lasted 22 years, used every day.
Says then need new furniture .....
Gaspar alive??
ReplyDeleteMuir??
Ah, the student film festival. The participants must sign a waiver giving away all rights to any video/photos of themselves.
ReplyDeleteHow many times is staff going to compile an inventory of parks, etc. under a master plan.
ReplyDeleteThere is already an inventory on all of this. They don't need another.
DeleteP and R wants complete parks master plan... To clarify all existing parks and infrastructure.
ReplyDeleteHow many employees does it take to do that?
ReplyDeleteIt would have taken none if the Parks and Rec. Commission would have been allowed to do it, but NOOOOOOO
Delete9:51 PM
ReplyDelete300 give or take one employee. Marlena would also help out.
Citizen wants a park for drones.
ReplyDeleteApparently this guy knows nothing about the Leucadia club, just go do it. LC wishing they had kept their mouths shut and just held their little meetings anonymously. This guy wants city permission..why??
Gaspar alive... Says she is up at 5 am.
Friends of Enc library taking credit for 98% of city library programs. Park and Rec to take over library.....ordered by Putin ???
Parks and Rec taking over running of the city. Council is out.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget that the Director and Sad Sac are both from Sacto. Need I day more.
DeleteKranz wants people attending free programs at the library to pay attention.
ReplyDeleteShaffer does not breath through her nose....
ReplyDeleteEthics exhilation
DeleteAnd Gaspar practices circular breathing, a technique used by didgeridoo players so that they can blow continuously. That's how she talks nonstop without an apparent need to come up for air.
ReplyDeleteDon't get close to that razor nose - will cut you to ribbons!
DeleteI can't take this anymore. Some of us need to work in the am.
ReplyDeleteWait, Muir sucking up to P and R. Wants them to upgrade Mullens park... Why did he stop at the park?? P and R controls city medians, why not upgrade those also??
City medians are paid from the landscape and light assessments. City wants to assess more fees to feed the general fund. Problem is that prop 218 requires a vote and council wants the medians to be in bad shape to get the voters to approve a higher fee.
Delete90 foot lights at Leo Mullens.
ReplyDeleteVina- trails are part of the active transportation. What the $#%? Does he plan to run traffic behind all the houses?
ReplyDeleteAnd you now know why at least some of us left certain Commissions.. It was a bit much. So far no exit interviews, as council said would be a good idea. However, that's all they said. Nothing has happened. Seems to be a lot of that going around at City Hall.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for Marlena. She is wonderful and did a great job to elevate Patch to an interesting on-line locate news site. Now she thrown it the pit of hell with spin master Gustavo.
ReplyDeleteShe can always quit and rebuild the Patch… Its worthless now.
DeleteIt a free country so far. What she should do is gather all the dirt and then quit and write about it. Is sell your soul to a none sellout of encinitas and selling out your own integrity in the process worth a job with City as Vin'a blog poster?
I would think that nice and smart Marlena would think not, but we shall see how smart and how deep runs her integrity.
Hell at $70K/year . . pretty cool Hell...
DeleteHell at $80,000 a year current not including an additional 25% in benefits. She's part of the $100,000 employee club.
DeleteIf she had any contact with Gus she should have already known better or asked around. I don't feel sorry for her one bit. She makes a hell of a lot of money for doing so far very little. I'll save my sympathy foe people who are trying to make a difference in this city without working for it. People who really deserve praise. Hell I could have written Patch things. It was no big deal. And lots of people are nice around here. And if she is so wonderful, why didn't you warn her 11:22.
ReplyDelete"Mr. Non-Sympathtic to most City employees at this point."
There you all go again. Nothing is ever right is it. Teresa is right. You are all a bunch of losers.
ReplyDeleteThere are many things right with this City.
Delete1. Tony challenging a lame report from staff to sell a asset at pennies on the dollar.
2. Constituents that care about their city who want a City Manager that can downsize the cost of the huge City Hall and put a small fraction of our tax dollars to projects verses supplying huge salaries and pensions.
3. We live in a great beach town.
4. Citizens are focused on correcting the imperialistic attitudes at City Hall and change the focus on selling out the town to developers to raise taxes to pay for their huge pensions and ill plans.
5. Today will be a beautiful day. Hopefully you can get outside and move around a bit. It will clear your head and make you think more productively. Bonus- You will feel more peaceful and loving inside.
Hugs,
Caring Leucadian
Teresa is a cry baby.
ReplyDeleteDump Barth...
DeletePeak Democracy has nothing to do with it name nor with the goals of increasing trust and enhancing citizen participation that Gus VIna presented. Gus Vina is interested in taxpayers funding a separate blog for his family and friends to post favorable comments about him since he knows he is losing ground with the public. In discussion with friends and neighbors, the comments about Gus Vina and the council are actually worse than what we read online. Vina had his own staff fill out surveys for the Health Element of the General Plan. Maybe he will ask staff to fill out positive feedback for him on this venue also.
ReplyDeleteGus Vina has been a disaster for Encinitas, and he had already signed a contract with Peak Democracy and made the decision for the council. Another vender was called "Mind Mixer," at least is an accurate description of what these businesses actually do. This is a citizen-funded propaganda operation for Gustavo and Teresa.
Instead of whining and denigrating your former supporters I have a recommendation for Gustavo and Teresa. Stop lying! Your credibility at this point is in the toilet. If Barth’s former supporters are warming up to Gaspar and Muir, the reason is simple. There is nothing worse than a traitor, and they are not hypocrites since Gaspar has clearly indicated that she supports the building industry and Muir supports city staff and public unions. Barth holds the position of mayor, but at public events, after the picture for her scrapbook is taken and the ribbon has been cut, she is largely shunned.
Hello-
DeleteI am a bit late to this discussion. If it is not too much trouble could someone elaborate on Gus Vina having already 'bought/purchased/signed' a contract with this Peak Democracy organization before the council met?
Is this similiar to his Rutan and Tucker decision?
Thank you
Andrew Audet
Gaspar and Muir abstained because of this exact point - they didn't seem to be happy with Vina or Staff. I can't figure out why the others supported Vina without even questioning it.
DeleteAbstaining is a cowardly act. They were elected to make decisions. Not run and hide so they don't offend anyone....bullshiters!!!
DeleteI agree. Don't Abstain, vote no, have some guts
Delete-Mr Green Guts
7:28
DeleteI've been to many events with Teresa and I can assure you she is well liked by all the business folk in town
This may be the funniest thing ever posted...ever! Not just this blog.
DeleteTeresa Barth is well liked by the Mainstreet Associations because she is mayor; they sponsored her only "private" State of the City Address last year, and they are being subsidized, by the City, year after year, without having to compete for grants, through the Community Grants program, as other non profits must. The City essentially pays for a full time director, now for L101MA, when the position, before was always part time. Plus is the director the "manager" of the Sunday Farmer's Markets at Paul Ecke Central? Because someone told me that the money is split three ways, between the Parent Teacher Association, L101MA and the "Manager," whomever that is. I feel more money from the vendors rents should go to the children, through the PTA.
DeleteThe newly rebranded 101 Mainstreet Associations are obviously developer slanted, Cardiff being the least offensive. But these groups are city SPONSORS as well as subsidiaries, and their Boards of Directors all lobbied/campaigned against the grassroots initiative, Prop A. Fortunately, Encinitas citizens were smart enough to see through the lies and pretense.
Other cities have self-sustaining chambers of commerce, and we should, too. The relationship that is ongoing is more about politics and insider influence than fairness, and economic sustainability for everyone, not just city employees, contractors, sponsors/subsidiaries and Council Members.
Andrew, just as Rutan and Tucker were already chosen, by Vina, so was Peak Democracy, and so, apparently was the eminent domain consultant, Linda Bartz, who was also "briefed" (prepped) for a couple of hours, by Vina and Sabine, before her presentation to Council and the public, when she complied with a much more negative spin, than pre-briefing, in her written report.
Teresa lost my support when she rated the loser Gus as excellent.
ReplyDeleteVina and Rudloff will make sure the trains run on time.
ReplyDeleteWhat trains?
Deleteit's an attempt at humor, comparing Vina and Rudloff to Mussolini's dictatorship where "at least he made the trains run on time"..
DeleteDid I miss something? If the contract was already signed, why would the council now be asked to vote on it?
ReplyDeleteWhat's going on now is colored by the upcoming election. The closer we get to November, the deeper the coloring will be.
ReplyDeleteAndrew
ReplyDeleteThe city manager has the ability to sign contracts under a certain amount with out going to council.
Then why ask council to vote on it?
DeleteYeah, yeah, yeah, so Vina said when caught wi the Rutan contract in his hand. Fine, he can sign without oversight. Why though did he say he "had a firm in mind" when he'd already signed the contract? Why did he tell residents that night "I can't remember the name of the firm I had in mind"?
DeletePlease, stop covering for this greedy, conniving jerk.
And those two abstentions mean ZIP when they and we know that in Sabine's world, an abstention = a yes vote and that's how he's counting them.
It's the sham of all these examples that should make everyone sick. They're indefensible.
Why ask us to pay for another invalid, piece of shit program to benefit Gus Vina? He wants to restore trust by having people place lies on a new site that claim he is doing a good job. No thank you.
DeleteOh, so the three council people who knew about the contact signing prior to a public hearing and knowingly violated the Ralph M. Brown Act are innocent, but you are sickened by an abstention of the two council members who protested?
DeleteHypocrisy Central. Doesn't this remind you of when Teresa cut a deal with Patrick and Diane on the new General Plan behind Gaspar's back and when Gaspar complained and publicly reported about Barth misleading the subcommittee behind closed-doors Barth accused Gaspar of violating the Brown Act and that was the UT headline rather than Barth's chicanery?
How about Barth complaining to B.H. from the S.D. Foundation that the Brown Act stops her from talking to more than 3 people? Barth meant council people, not residents and the correct number is 1 other Encinitas council person that she can speak to about Agenda Items, not 3. 8 years on the council and still cannot get it correct.
Anon 5:56, I'm afraid that I agree with you. I am one of the people who supported her and I very much regret it now.
DeleteWe supported a puppet with no stuffing. Even the strings are broken.
DeleteAmir was a man who had ACE Cars and Trucks on our block of 101 a few years back. Dad used to visit him frequently. One day Dad said: "There have been 3 people ask how much that Jeep is per month since I've been sitting here. Doesn't anybody ever ask what the price is anymore?" Amir responded: "No. And if they do, I tell 'em it's none of their damn business!"
ReplyDeleteHaven't had time to review last night's details of Peak Democracy, but haven't heard anyone mention the annual cost of the service either. But what good would the service be if it informed the public about issues the same way the ballot arguments did last election?
As far an invading your privacy or IP address, there is no privacy in this country so get used to it. My argument would be what's so hard about creating the city's own annex to their website for polling the public and recieving their comments on any issue? Does this really need to be subbed out? AND, how much does it cost? It is our business.
I do not need to be tracked, Fred. Thanks, no thanks. With the history of developer and city retribution, no thanks.
DeleteThe fact that we're all tracked by credit card use, whatever, is no reason I need to add the city to the list.
DeleteIf there is no statistical reliability and validity whatever information the City receives will be worth very little. And, there should not be more than a 3to 4% margin of error. I wonder if anyone at the City has looked at that. And if they have, are they sure it not statistically flawed? Just wondering, as I could not be there last night, and the meeting took some time, so I haven't looked at the tape.
DeleteShould have said 3% to 4%
DeleteIt is worse than that Dr. L! Most people who read this blog know what you are talking about (although Gaspar, Muir, and occasionally Lisa would too) Teresa and Tony don't understand this stuff. This program Peak Democracy has NOTHING to do with democracy, but some people might think it is a valid process. At least, that is what Gus Vina is hoping.
DeleteFred, the web work would probably have to be subbed out, but it could be done.
DeletePeak Democracy is an "Out of the Box" solution, developed by these guys in Berkley. I think it's more about preventing certain people from dominating the discussion than it is about tracking you.
It's a boring programming thing I won't to go into, but your IP address or location is used by a lot of companies out there on the web. The same thing is true of Amazon.com. It's called "personalization" in the industry. It's the same way even Youtube decides which ads to serve you.
The rule of the road is as always, don't give away more info than you have to, and make sure it's https when using a CC.
The bottom line is, what's the cost of Peak Democracy, what do they hope to achieve? I think very little will occur in terms of results...
-Mr Green Jeans
-Mr Greenjeans
Mr Green Jeans - Berkeley? enough said. Home of the intolerant radical communist left. The take over of goverment envisioned by 60's radicals is complete. The very thing they railed against are now who they are. Peak Democracy is about controlling freedom of thought and expression, limiting participation, controlling data and collecting information to harass and intimidate those with opposing views. on animal farl and at berkeley some animals are more equal than others................those animals who control the system. as a one time Barth supporter she has turned out to be an epic weak kneed follower, dump barth this year
DeleteTeresa continues to be taken in by invalid programs presented on computer interfaces and other passing fads because she lacks basic knowledge of statistics and ethical survey practices. This is true of every city employee I have met as well, so naturally they lack the ability to evaluate the quality of the projects they support. Barth supports poor processes like the MIG fiasco, Peder Norby’s role as “facilitator,” the dot exercise, Gustavo’s “passion” of strategic planning, Peak Democracy and anything brought forward by Gus Vina or Marco Gonzalez because she is influenced by bad information rendered in a Power Point, bar chart, a visual graph, or a computer-assisted mapping program. She is even more blinded when these initiatives are presented by oily salesmen who are there primarily to extract taxpayer dollars for themselves to deliver poor quality or useless programs to citizens that we never wanted in the first place.
DeleteThe city continues to bring in a continuous stream of consultants and programs to spend our money on more and more processes without ever presenting valid results. When pressed for specific information about any of his failed performance, Vina goes to his stock answer of, “there is more to come, and we will have a presentation about this later!”
Actually, I think Peak Democracy is a way for these guys to make money. They aren't giving it away for free.
DeleteThey're definitely selling it as something that promotes interaction, communication etc. All it is to me is a way for them to make money.
These guys have nothing to do with the radical left of the past. It's a high technology company, trying to harness the interest in Social Media.
I think it's a waste of money.
-Mr Green Jeans
9:48 - you haven't been to Berkeley lately, have you...........
Delete- The Sculpin
Dump Barth and Gaspar.
ReplyDeleteI agree with that
ReplyDeleteTo add to that
ReplyDeleteDump Vina!
Excellent idea
I will support councilmembers that out to dump Tina
Vow to dump Vins... Siri mistake...
ReplyDeleteFrom Lisa Shaffer's newsletter. Take what you want and leave the rest.
ReplyDeletehis plan represents change. We are taking small steps, at relatively low cost, to use 21st century technology to provide more opportunities to educate the public, share important information, and receive meaningful public feedback. The plan does not require investment in infrastructure. There is ample earmarked funding for public outreach and education to cover the costs. As with any tool, online civic engagement systems can be used well, or can be abused. We have a responsibility to make sure we are using it appropriately and presenting any results honestly and accurately.
We all agreed that clear guidelines are needed to protect staff from any political influence in shaping questions or interpreting results. The results will not be binding referendums and they won't be the only source of public input. So I was disappointed and confused by the lack of support from two of my colleagues. I appreciate all the effort that went into the development of the communications plan and I hope that we can come together and promote public participation to make the output as broadly based and useful as possible. As soon as registration information is available, I will pass it along and encourage you to do the same.
Disappointed in Muir and Gaspar-Oh no!
DeleteLisa Whiner -
Delete"I was disappointed and confused by the lack of support from two of my colleagues"
As has become all to common Lisa Whiner signs off on a another Vina's failure- then uses her newsletter to blame others
Hey- Lisa Whiner - what about the other programs and options Vina talked about exploring with the council? did you know a decision had alredy been made before the meeting began - it sure didn't sound like Muir and Gaspar did -
Hey -Lisa Whiner- how about standing with Muir and Gaspar and holding Vina accountable to the council? Instead you hold the council accountable to Vina-
Really, Lisa Whiner sounds more and more like a limousine liberal with every newsletter- it's all about me, what about me, look at me-
Intersting, before Shaffer ran for office I never saw her at a council meeting or at a workshop- yet she and Barney Barth denigrate residents who watch city hall every chance they can-
I supported Shaffer, I won't be supporting her again- right now only Muir and Gaspar are standing up to Vina and his failed leadership and policies
Shaffer is relatively new to Encinitas: she married into the City. Her resume showed only one previous moment of community voluntary action: a short spate in Santee in visiting a children's school: aside from that her supporters made a big deal out of her wearing a yellow vest at a garden/mansion tour. Its clear to anyone watching the public meetings that she doesn't like the public, staff or her peers, hence the "Don't Blame Me" newsletter every week.
DeleteIf you represent people, shouldn't you like people, first?
As to the Mayor, 8 years ago when she was first elected, she accused her peers of criminal behavior for violating the Brown Act and then after 6 months of not representing those who elected her, a letter from the State Attorney General informing her about how wrong she and Ehlers were: not for the first time. Now, 7 years plus, Wednesday night she complains to an out-of-town consultant, B.H. that the Brown Act is stopping her from doing her job.
It would be laughable if it wasn't so terribly sad. Ticket-taking at the summer fair doesn't take any problem solving skills: they are color-coded. Now, raising taxes, planting fruit trees everywhere, angrily hushing the public every week: and clearly Shaffer, Kranz and Barth had discussed Marlene Medford's contract and 'Plan/Contract' prior to a public hearing: a clear violation of State transparency laws.
Mrs. Kravitz rules!
Wow, you make it sound like moving here is a crime! I still say the jury's out on Lisa, and no, she doesn't have a warm manner. I knew that when I campaigned for her. That said, I'd like to see more from her chair.
DeleteWhat was the issue Weds with Barth and the Brown act, I haven't had a chance to watch the meeting.
-Mr Greenjeans
Sounds like a fantasy if you think Muir and Gaspar are "standing up" to Vina. Muir is there to support Firefighter pensions and Gaspar represents the developers. Other than those reasons, they would not be on council.
DeleteTrue, but they have at least opposed El President - the three blind mice have not. Dump Barney Barth - she is a weak kneed failure. Higher taxes, higher fees, that is who Barth is
DeleteRather ironic don't you think?
ReplyDeleteSo many problems with this, but I will not rant on over this any more, as it has not done any good. It has been decided. So, either opt in or out, that is the choice my fellow citizens. If you like it, go for it. If you don't, well then don't sign up.
ReplyDeleteOh, And I forgot to mention I went to UCBerkeley. Trashing my own alma mater. Shame on me!
ReplyDeleteGo Bears! LOL. It's probably as simple as creating an email address not linked to your real name. That's how I'm registered with Facebook, which is also not under my real name.
Delete-Mr Green Jeans
I was just listening to Vina's presentation. He claims that the reason that Encinitas citizens are distrustful of government is because of the City of Bell.
ReplyDeleteGus, that story came to light years ago, and I have never heard anyone say that the lack of trust citizens have in the City of Encinitas is because of the City of Bell. I have heard many people say that Gus Vina is one of the main reasons that the City of Encinitas is worse than ever before since Gus rewards low standards and models terrible ethics.
Could you please provide us with any examples of what you have done to inspire trust? You are so bad that the council is in jeopardy of being kicked out the next time they run, and even the new communications director who is now linked with you, is not embraced because you hired her.
When he got here, he told attendees at his "get to know you" meetings that he was glad to be out of Sacramento, where residents were "apathetic." Definitely a case of placing blame where it does NOT belong. Vina is the common denominator for resident distrust and apathy, another word for "we give up."
DeleteNot even counting the council who he manipulates, Gus has over 200 people who report to him. How he can play the victim card while being paid a quarter mil per year and for the rest of his life when he retires is hard to stomach.
ReplyDeleteCouncil needs to own up to their responsibility and fire Vina.
ReplyDeleteVina is way worse than might be imagined. The two people that need to be shown the door are Sabine and Vina.
ReplyDeleteWatch them carefully at council meetings. They are constantly putting their heads together, conferring. The two are connected at the hip, not good.
DeleteThe three of them are connected at the hip - Barth, Vina, and Sabine.
DeleteThis city council is a joke and should be ashamed of themselves. Two of them drone on through their nasal passages way too long and end up saying NOTHING of any substance. If someone on the council would have asked if a contract had been signed with Peak Democracy, hours of time could have been saved, but, they let that wonderful city manager do whatever he desires. They only found out when a light bulb hit Muir in terms of cost. We need to have people on council more in touch with what is going on. They all sit there meeting after meeting asking stupid questions. They should do their research ahead of time. I will NOT vote for one single one of them and God help us whoever is the next mayor. I hope it is not nasal Gaspar or the other one. I would have to wear ear plugs.
ReplyDeleteI looked at parts of the webcast. Julie Graboi did an excellent job as the ONLY public speaker for the communications portion of the Special Meeting on Wednesday, March 5.
ReplyDeleteWhat bothered me the most, about what I saw was the "slickness" of the man promoting Peak Democracy. I didn't like his stressing how the plan was to avoid the "referendum effect," and insisting that Peak Democracy doesn't use "vote" anywhere in its "platform." This is a case where what is being advocated is LESS direct democracy, not more. Peak Democracy seems to be a clever marketing term, calling something exactly what it is not.
The reason Gaspar and Muir abstained and didn't vote no, is because they were not happy the contract had already been signed. Therefore, there was no REASON to vote no. It was a "done deal." They signified their unhappiness by abstaining. Even had they not abstained, the majority would have prevailed.
Not one of the majority of Tony, Teresa and Lisa, addressed the solitary public speaker's excellent questions and concerns. This was a "process not a project" being sold to benefit Council and staff, not the citizens. It's a way to filter input to make it fit better with staff's pre-formed conclusions, especially the City Manager's "directives" and his cabinet.
I am glad that Kristin and Mark did stand up, and abstained. I'm very disappointed in Lisa, once again, that she can't understand how this is a tool to actually further insulate Council and staff from public opinion.
Direct democracy can be messy. I wouldn't characterize the entire "blogosphere" as being a cesspool, because of anonymous comments, allowed. I have learned a great deal from anonymous posters on this blog, and others. Some of the comments can be cruel and defamatory. Being a good moderator is a big job, as it requires a good sense of judgment, and also the ability to keep up with current events. My opinion, WCV is doing a good job.
Gus Vina, Glenn Sabine and our current Council Majority are NOT doing a good job when they attempt to find a way to justify their pre-formed conclusions, already put into effect by the City Manager. He is running the show, and they are too compliant and too swayed by fast-talking sales people clicking through powerpoint presentations with elaborate graphs and charts, to ask the important questions.
I will be very glad when Teresa's last six months as mayor are up. That's coming up, soon. My hope is that Kristin will be better at giving the City Manager direction, rather than the other way around, as has been the case for the last year, going on 1 1/2 years.
It's also ironic that the meeting was to be about communications, but there was no opportunity for oral communications. The Brown Act defines Regular Meetings as those Council Meetings that have at least 72 hour notice. This was scheduled ahead of time, and regular notice was given. Oral Communications should have been allowed, so that people didn't have to endure tedious presentations by marketing agents, pushing their agenda to Council, not the public. Some people may have attended the beginning of the meeting in order to speak for three minutes on non-agenda items. But Mayor Barth almost always seems more concerned about form than the reason behind it. She seems more concerned about control, placing blame, than content, and communication with the public, at Council Meetings, BEFORE decisions are made. She seems to think of open govt. now as a hindrance to her being able to pre-discus with her "colleagues."
Apparently, Ms. Barth can't see the forest for the trees. She used to give links to this particular "cesspool" in her newsletters. Those days are long gone. I
One of the Maxims of Jurisprudence, part of the Code of Civil Procedure, is: content is more important than form.
All that being said, the City already has all my info, including my home address, IP address and e-mail address. And yes, I've already seen retribution.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, I'll probably register, because I don't want the only input being considered to be that solicited through our ersatz chambers of commerce, special interests, such as building industry lobbyists, and various other insiders peddling influence and pushing their agenda on often unwilling residents, who seldom, if ever follow the antics and tactics at City Hall.
2:00
DeleteI agree for the most part. The more Encinitans involved, the better the assessment of public opinion would be. But it all should be up front with exactly how many pollers sign up for the service (so that could be compared with the maximum postential of how many could), and verifiable with any citizen - just as people who speak at city meetings have to give their name and town they live in. Those things especially would keep shilling at bay. Also, would this service be limited to Encinitas registered voters, or anyone 18 or older?
I understand one council person's objection was it might give one side of an issue an advantage by "rallying the troups". But isn't that how every election proceeds? At least it would keep interests from other citys out of the picture.
If Peak Democracy is $9K per year, that's not sounding too bad as I've seen a lot more money go toward programs that had little benefit at all. I would still question why it would cost that same amount each year once it was put in motion and would also wonder if they have a minimun of years contract attached.
Traditionally, people provide their name and city of residence when they speak at Council Meetings. Lisa Shaffer said at last week's meeting that "people don't have to provide their names!" How can the Clerk call them to speak, then? Council could and should ask speakers to provide their City of residence, just as participants would, and have, for online input and feedback.
DeleteThe Mayor and the Clerk can ask for someone's City of residence. The speaker has the ability to decline. The Brown Act does NOT say that potential speakers have to be informed this information is optional, only that it cannot be required in order to ATTEND MEETINGS.
Per Government Code Section 54953.3 Conditions to attendance at meetings
"A member of the public shall not be required, as a condition to attendance at a meeting of a legislative body of a local agency, to register his or her name, to provide other information, to complete a questionnaire, or otherwise to fulfill any condition precedent to his or her attendance.
If an attendance list, register, questionnaire, or other similar document is posted at or near the entrance to the room where the meeting is to be held, or is circulated to the persons present during the meeting, it shall state clearly that the signing, registering, or completion of the document is voluntary, and that all persons may attend the meeting regardless of whether a person signs registers or completes the document."
Lisa Shaffer has now further misconstrued this Section of the Brown Act to mean that SPEAKERS do not even have to provide their names! That is preposterous; how would the Clerk call someone forward. This Section of law is referring to public agencies not being able to ask for people's personal information in order for them to attend meetings. There is GOOD REASON for Council, through the Clerk, to ask people to state their name and city of residence, if they intend to testify before Council.
Speaking at a Council Meeting is voluntary. But if someone does elect to speak, that person can easily provide his or her name and city of residence, so that Council can better weigh their testimony.
Peak Democracy will require registration, which will include City of residence, as I feel it should. Because Encinitas taxpayers are paying for this "process," and we want the opinions of local residents to have greater weight than out of town special interests.
DeleteTo me a terrible example of what can happen when neither the Mayor nor the Clerk ask for a speaker's City of residence is what took place on 1/30/13. Bicyclists, many or most of them from outside of Encinitas, were rallied at the Dudek Building the night before the Council Meeting, by Leucadia 101 Mainstreet Association. They were again rallied, including through Facebook and other social media, to come to the council meeting the next evening. They arrived en masse, and dominated the public speakers' discussion. Locals did provide their names and cities of residence. But the vast majority of bicyclist speakers did not.
Brian Grover later apologized to me in the lobby, hoping that we didn't feel "bullied." But we did. The bicyclist club members came into our town and kept repeating the single tragic collision, which happened in April of 2011, repeating it over and over, without explaining it was the same accident, or what City they resided in, or even where the accident(s) they were referring to occurred, in many cases.
Hey, I love bicycling, and I love bicyclists, in general, but there are a few very aggressive types that seem to feel they don't have to comply with the rules of the road, which include traveling single file, except in Sharrows, when a bicyclist going the speed of traffic could pass a bicyclist riding to the right, and including bicyclists traveling in bicycle lanes, except when bicyclists are passing one another.
So it's a bad thing that a group of people organized and came out en masse to speak? I applaud them.
DeleteAnd if you don't like it, gather your own group to speak. It's that simple. Anything else is sour grapes. Everyone has a right to speak, and yes, I would prefer they give their city, but I welcome them to speak either way.
Here's the bottom line that I've gotten from some cyclists I know, and that is, the wider you ride, the more chances you take. A bike is going to lose against a car every time.
As much as I don't like it, I give them the right of way. I'm not going to be the guy who whacks a bike if I can avoid it. Everything else is just huffing and puffing. I'd rather spend an extra 30 seconds to go around them, or wait to turn right. Save your self the agony, drive in the left lane.
-Mr Green Jeans
Lynn, you constantly repeat the erroneous statement that cyclists must travel single file. You are wrong, the people you cite are wrong. It is not the law.
DeleteAnd, yes, smart cyclists know that no matter whether they are within their rights or not, the cyclists loses every time.
Your friends, Kristin and Mark, are still big buddies with Jerome Stocks. Figure it out folks!
ReplyDeletewhat is your point 11:20? Barth, Shaffer and Phony Tony have voted and acted just like Stocks- oppoed A, spread misinformation and untruths, hold residents in disdain, hide behind Vina, Sabine and city staff- these are all facts
DeleteBarth is Stocks - own it Teresa -you are a weak kneed failure- shame on you. Many will actively campaign against you if you run-
# 1 priority for all encinitas residents needs to be getting rid of Sabine and Vina. There will be no meaningful change until we rally around this and make it happen.
ReplyDeleteI agree with that!
Delete12:57 is right in my opinion. I still don't understand why this Council keeps Sabine around. Vina, I don't understand him either.
ReplyDeleteFRED, YOUR COMMENT IS EXACTLY WHAT GUS VINA AND COUNCIL HOPE FOR AS A PLAN TO DERAIL PROP A AND THE GENERAL PLAN!
ReplyDelete"If Peak Democracy is $9K per year, that's not sounding too bad as I've seen a lot more money go toward programs that had little benefit at all. I would still question why it would cost that same amount each year once it was put in motion and would also wonder if they have a minimun of years contract attached."
REMEMBER, the MIG GPU was presented to us as a "template" as a means of "saving money!" What MIG sold us was a retread of General Plans from other clients for which they had already been paid! The Advanced Planning staff wrote pages of filler, so that the DRAFT Plan was almost 800 pages long! For Encinitas with a population of 60,000 and 19 square miles, they gave us a plan that was longer than the LA County General Plan and charged us between 2 and 3 million dollars!
FRED, they keep repackaging every failed attempt to get the kind of "citizen participation" that they are seeking to justify high density. People worked hard to derail the GPU, the dot exercise, and every other attempt to ignore ACTUAL citizen comments. When these attempts were thrown out, they hired Marlena who will take her laptop to the Rotary Club and the Senior Center and get a more narrowly biased, preselected group to say that they LOVE Encinitas and want more density! Don't be fooled! It is the same thing in a different wrapper!
Because, generally speaking, the electorate likes the leadership of City Hall: its only when Ehler's invests in a false 5 Story dog-and-pony show or the SRF lights a fire under the residents downtown that the longtime activists win. It'll be shortlived just like Sheila being removed in 2000.
DeleteWait until the Coast News goes OB.
Shaffer included a 1,100+ word sales pitch for the new "communications strategy" in her newsletter. The strategy includes Peak Democracy's Open Town Hall software.
DeleteIf the software has value as a democratic tool, wouldn't there be ringing endorsements from ordinary citizens who are constituents of the more than 80 government agencies where the software is used?
Shaffer appears to have inadvertently revealed the software's true purpose: It provides "well regulated public input."
The council and staff don't like what they've been hearing from citizens, so they're looking for a way to cook up something more palatable.
Peak Democracy could and surely would be used as a tool to twist the public perception of what consensus thinking is; if questions are not asked of a RANDOM sampling of citizens of Encinitas, and the answers are therefore not statistically significant, then why ask the questions? I feel the answer is: for propaganda purposes, to manipulate public opinion and provide a platform for Council and staff's special interest boosters, not the "little guy."
DeleteAgain, the Mayor and the City Clerk should immediately begin asking all public speakers to provide, when they begin to speak before Council, and on their speaker slips, their names and cities of residence. A phone number is requested so that staff, as directed by Council and the City Manager, can follow up with those speakers who take the time and make the effort to give presentations on non-agenda items, or otherwise. Providing a phone number should be optional, but it's a good idea if one asks for follow-through.
Again, although Tony Kranz asked, twice, in his motion for the initial trial period to be for six months, a contract had already been signed, in February for a "one year pilot program." After one year, the $9,000 rate would likely increase. Hopefully, the contract will not be renewed, and should not be renewed without PRE-APPROVAL of Council, not another after the fact, meaningless vote. There was no public hearing allowing the public to weigh in at a regularly scheduled Council Meeting. In the future, I feel Council should modify what requires their approval, down to contracts for anything over $5,000, even if that approval is only through an item placed on the Consent Calendar. Gus Vina has far too much power in spending our taxpayer dollars on staff salaries and contrator/consultant fees, etc.
Peak Democracy pushes less direct democracy. More wolves in sheep's clothing tactics, more posturing and pretense, and massaging of statistically invalid data, designed to appeal to, appease and glorify our new, but temporary Council Majority of Teresa Barth, Lisa Shaffer, and Tony Kranz.
As was stated at the Council Meeting on Wednesday, March 5, if it's not a random sampling, then Marlena Medford, or any members of staff can actively recruit certain people to give certain answers. The process was designed and billed as a tool for staff and Council, not for the public, not to give more people a voice.
It's another method of control, to be used by Teresa and Lisa, and their papa-bear, Tony, who doesn't always go along, but has been a swing vote, to manipulate Council's images and discount the opinions of those who do watch city hall and who have been active in city government by attending meetings, stating our names, cities of residence, and sharing informed opinions as part of the public record.
How do you know the rate will likely increase? I guess that's a somewhat logical assumption, but without anything to back up that assumption, it's just that.
DeleteI think people are reading way more into this app than is there. Here's the bottom line, the makers of Peak Democracy, like everyone else, are in it for the money. They are not a non-profit. They are trying to sell their service.
If that's not apparent to the council, or any of the rest of us, then we should have our head examined.
I agree with Tony, 6 month pilot. If they like it, negotiate a deal. I would never expect a tool like this to be able to kick out good data, it's not designed for that. It's a way to let people "speak their mind", and yes, it limits responses, tracks who has registered etc, just like Amazon.com and a lot of other things we use every day. How do you think they track your preferences?
My take is, council and staff are probably going to go and do what they want either way, with our without this tool. People are going to keep following the trends they've set. Would Muir vote against pensions even if a survey told him he shouldn't? I think not.
For me, it's a question of money spent. Neogov is a good tool, because you can tie into a bigger pool of job applicants. But will Peak Democracy really increase engagement? How do you measure that anyway?
No company/city or other group has the time to "regulate" public input even on a moderated blog. You would have to sit there all day trying to remove 4 letter words. I know, I've done it. So when these guys show up, you can see why they're interested.
I'm ok with trying it out, but Like Tony, I want to see these guys work to make this a tool of value, don't just roll over for them and pant for it..
-Mr Green Jeans
From Lisa's newsletter:
DeleteRecognizing this trend and consistent with earlier Council direction, a team of city staff researched online engagement systems and chose Open Town Hall, a system developed by Peak Democracy. The system costs $9,000/year in fees, which includes the software platform and a lot of advice and support by Peak Democracy experts for City staff. Peak Democracy is the leading provider of civic engagement systems and its systems are used by over 80 government agencies around the country. At the March 5 meeting, the co-founder gave an extensive presentation and demonstration of the various features. You can check it out here. Users must register, providing name, address, and email. The City can design other registration questions, such as whether you own a business or work in Encinitas. Responses can then be sorted and evaluated based on the demographic data about each user as well as their location.
Civic engagement is not about on-line voting. Open Town Hall and similar systems do not generate "scientific" surveys with associated sampling error statistics. While there are situations when a consultant should be hired to conduct such a survey, it's not practical or cost-effective to conduct such a survey on every issue. Furthermore, as all the Council recognizes, while we should be informed by public opinion, we were elected to make the decisions based on our best judgment of what is right for the community. Voting happens every 2 or 4 years, when the citizens make their choices directly.
And just as every eligible voter does not always choose to cast a vote in every election, it's not realistic or necessary for every resident to participate in the Open Town Hall. Open Town Hall is intended to educate the community about important topics, and to provide opportunities for comments and exchange of views using graphics and text. The idea is to augment the quality and quantity of input we get now from public speakers at Council meetings and poorly-attended workshops. At the Council meeting there were fewer than a dozen people present. But we know more people than that care about what's going on. We can't expect everyone to come to City Hall when we meet. What we can do is provide more avenues for input before, during, and after our meetings.
This plan represents change. We are taking small steps, at relatively low cost, to use 21st century technology to provide more opportunities to educate the public, share important information, and receive meaningful public feedback. The plan does not require investment in infrastructure. There is ample earmarked funding for public outreach and education to cover the costs. As with any tool, online civic engagement systems can be used well, or can be abused. We have a responsibility to make sure we are using it appropriately and presenting any results honestly and accurately.
We all agreed that clear guidelines are needed to protect staff from any political influence in shaping questions or interpreting results. The results will not be binding referendums and they won't be the only source of public input. So I was disappointed and confused by the lack of support from two of my colleagues. I appreciate all the effort that went into the development of the communications plan and I hope that we can come together and promote public participation to make the output as broadly based and useful as possible. As soon as registration information is available, I will pass it along and encourage you to do the same."
Because this is how they get paid! There's always a service element to these kind of online apps. I'm not defending it, but would Netflix give you a one time fee, no!
DeleteIt's a yearly subscription. That's why you need to pilot it for 6 months....
12:47, you have it perfectly backwards!
ReplyDelete9:40
ReplyDeleteIndeed, Prop A chiseling has already clearly begun within the wish list of the recent Economic Development Committee recomendations they made to the city. Anti-Prop A desires didn't surface at that meeting, but Prop A is singled out on their collection of things that stand to inhibit economic development. I wholly disagree.
And make no mistake 12:47. 5 story buildings for Encinitas was no dog and pony show, but a vision unanimously recommended by the city organized ERAC meetings. If their recommendations held no weight, what value would there be for the committee forming in the first place? To waste a lot of people's time and money?
So yes 9:40, your concerns re/ Peak Democracy are duly noted. Anti-A folks' Plan A didn't work and Plan B has already surfaced so I don't doubt more plans will arise until they run out of the alphabet. And what a drag if half of the "Questions of the Week" were tools to (by hook or crook) dismantle Prop A. We can't rule that out.
Fred, you are usually quite accurate, but the GPAC, ERAC, Planning Commission and the citywide dot exercise all had comaptible choices for the council to make, but None of them recommended 5 story buildings anywhere. That's just hogwash promoted by Ehlers. It cannot be proven, because it never happened. None of those committees 'visioned' anything: they were asked to identify possible R-30 locations for a city map to go to HCD, that would either approve it or not. If you actually read the reports from the Gpac, Erac and PC delivered to the council last February, you'd know the truth.
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Delete6:58
DeleteThanks for the kudos. And here's the clip you must have missed. You only need to watch the first 2 minutes or so to discover ERAC's unanimous reccomendation to the council was indeed that parts of Encinitas go up to 5 stories. I'm surprised only 426 people have watched this clip as of this moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Qxmi3_0Ng
6:58 step away from the crack pipe and stop smoking what you are inhaling -yes ERAC led by Doug Harwood and Peter Norby supported by Barth Gaspar and Muir recommended 5 story buildings - it's on video for all to see. Also for all to see is the pro development council of barth gaspar muir shaffer and kranz speading misinformation and untruths about Prop a -led by Vina.
DeleteLies, not untruths, lies. Call it what it is!
DeleteThis program seems to be a tool to create positive, feel good comments for city leaders instead of a means of capturing a cross section of citizen's views. I am worried that we will get hooked into the pilot program for a small amount of money, and then they will try to upsell us. The salesman said that to make it a valid tool would cost money.
ReplyDeleteWhy would anyone even pay for an invalid tool except that they could game it to their own advantage (using our money)! If the goals of this agenda are to restore trust and to hear from Encinitas citizens, use acceptable methods to get at the truth.
Placing Gus' Strategic Plan in the Recreation Guide is only slightly more effective than distributing it like messages in a bottle and thowing them out into the ocean. The argument that this venue is "free" is just plain dumb!
ReplyDeleteJust because they are sending out messages doesn't mean that people are paying attention to them. Yet this is the main focus behind of all of their failed participation programs,
Tell me again why we have a full time Communications Director and what she exactly does?
ReplyDeleteThe slick sales guy for Peak Democracy who directed his comments to Gus Vina, Mike Alvarez Cohen, is himself running for city council in Berkeley!
ReplyDeleteThis guy is like the owner of the Men's Hair Club. He is not only an owner but also a customer for a product that specializes providing high tech, ass-covering solutions to politicians and city workers.
If Gus and the council want to hire PR support like the new communications director or the Peak Democracy package, they should use their own out of pocket funds and not our tax money!
Slick Peak Democracy sales guy is running for council in Berkeley. Here is his page in case anyone wants to send him a check to supliment the $9,000 in tax money that Gus Vina gave him.
ReplyDeletehttp://mike4berkeley.nationbuilder.com/tags/mike_alvarez_cohen