Monday, June 22, 2015

Coast News: What's the beef between Encinitas and brewing industry?

Aaron Burgin reporting:
When a representative from the Encinitas 101 Main Street Association asked Tom Nickel to donate a few barrels of his popular beer for a local beer festival, Nickel said he was taken aback.


“While I appreciate the invite, I can’t in good faith do anything to support Encinitas when the city is so hostile to the brewing industry. Encinitas is the last major city in the county without a brewery — and that is because of the city government. It feels very disingenuous to not have any breweries and then reach out to the brewing community for donations. And I know that breweries have tried to open there and been turned down.”

The Coast News spoke to several major stakeholders in the region’s craft brewing industry, all who confirmed that Encinitas has an unfavorable reputation within its circles. Many point to at least one instance in which a high-profile brewer attempted to open a “brew pub” in town only to abandon the plans and instead wind up in Oceanside. They also point to the well-documented struggle between downtown’s alcohol serving establishments and residents as a potential reason for the perceived indifference toward breweries.
That brewery that tried to open in Encinitas and ended up in Oceanside is Bagby Beer, founded by award-winning brewer Jeff Bagby, who opened his beautiful new brewpub and restaurant last year on South Coast Highway in Oceanside.
“What I can say is that this is news that I have never heard that we are ‘anti-brewery,'” Encinitas Planning Director Jeff Murphy said. “I was surprised to hear the word ‘hostile’ to describe our stance against breweries. It is not that we prohibit them, we limit them to certain areas of town.”
Never heard? Maybe that's part of the problem.


  1. A brewery adds nothing to the town, except more drunks.

    1. Maybe the Union can open one!

    2. 8:48


  2. Jeff Bagley's comments in the Coast News don't jive with his 2013 San Diego Magazine interview ----

    You’re a North County guy, born and raised in Encinitas. Yet, your new place is in Oceanside. How did you end up there?
    My original goal was to be in Encinitas. They hadn’t had a brewery there since, I think, 1990 or 1991, and it didn’t last long. But the landlord we wanted to go with ended up going in a different direction. We wanted to stay in North County so we ended up in Oceanside. It’s a big area, a lot of square footage. It’s turned into a really good situation.

    1. Revisionist Bagley - drinking too much of his own slop!

    2. Oceanside is aggressively courting that kind of business to revitalize their downtown. In addition to Bagby's, there's the Local Tap House, the one north of it and now a new tap house north of city hall. The old Patagonia store at the corner of 101 and Vista way will also be a brewery.

      There's really no story here, just economic choices at work.

  3. I read this article Friday. I remember the Copper Kettle restaurant (I think that was its name) which contained a micro-brewery. It was across from the Potato Shack behind St. Germain's.

    But Encinitas isn't San Diego, Vista, or San Marcos that have plenty of light industrial space for breweries and actively court them. So maybe they were expecting love and Encinitas treated them as just another applicant.

    I say this as someone who appreciates local breweries and occasionally visits their tasting rooms.

    1. I'm sure they were expecting big love. If he'd applied 5 years ago, he may have found it. He has a big, Union or bigger sized place that was custom built, right on 101. I don't think that big of a spot exists in Encinitas anymore.

      Eventually there will be a big shakeout in the brewing and brew pub industry, there are only so many drinkers of beer and so much time, despite the vibrancy issue in downtown....

  4. Big loss. With the irresponsibility of all the bars and what they have done to our downtown, one less is a good thing. Glad he found a spot in O'side that works for him.

    Surely a saturation point has been reached, but no, there are more to come in the pipeline. PB north is becoming too real and our specialness has been overrun. What a shame that our council has never said, enough is enough, no more bars need apply. Go elsewhere. Our downtown has become a bar scene strip mall. Vibrancy? What a crock.

  5. We have two new mixed use coming on 101. Will MORE bars be going in the retail space? Unless the citizens shout no into a deaf councils ears you can count on it. How many places to get drunk does a small town need?

  6. 4:00, where are they building two new mixed uses? One's the Villa Mar Motel lot I'm guessing.... Yesterday, I saw it had been demolished. .

    1. SOmeone on EU called out that Scrap and Scrape project months ago- then some troll came on and claimed it was not true

      It's all true. The 101 is history- there is no historic Encinitas- thank Barth and Stocks

    2. Barth and Stocks. Total failures.

  7. You'd think our tight prohibition blog group here would appreciate that breweries aren't welcomed to Encinitas. But no. They spin it to mean breweries don't move here because Encinitas is tough on permitting everyone. Figures.

  8. Of all the new businesses that have come into being in our downtown in the last couple of years, I wonder how many are not bars. That might be telling of where our future lies and it doesn't look good.

    It may take other establishments being adversely affected enough by bar after bar and going out of business before our council finally wakes up and sees what they have allowed to fester.

    Our specialness we have loved for so long is no more because of this singular manifestation. It is pretty hard to turn this train around and change the direction of more and more bars.

    Is there a ratio that can be used to illustrate, enough is enough, on a percentage basis to size of our downtown, to say no more bars in such a limited area?

    The EHA is where and to what positive effect? Not surprised one bit. They should be solely incurring the cost of the much needed law enforcement that our sheriff captain can't afford to directly provide personnel where and when it is needed the most and yet wants us to now pay for cops on the beach. Don't let it happen!

    Give me a freaking break, Sheriff's Captain. You want us to cough up another $200,000 for an FTE and can't commit deputies to our downtown on any kind of regular basis for the midnight to 3am crowd.

    I believe our council is bowing to pressure to not clean up our downtown through enforcement policies that might put a damper on that whole party bar scene and affect the profits, by telling the sheriffs deputies to lay off just as they were told to quit citing some users of the new community park who refused to adhere to the posted regulations on safety gear and smoking, no less. It has happened at the park and who is to say the same thing is not going on in our downtown too?

    1. 6:16- I'm curious. Are you saying the the Council, or some members of the Council told the Sheriff to back off the skaters, who don't use helmets, at the new park? The reason I'm asking is that a couple of city people told me, as long as the City posts the sign, it's better not to get involved because allegedly the City could get sued. The logic baffles me, but it makes me wonder.

    2. "Staff" gets the message to back off of alienating businesses, no matter how badly behaving, because there could be an adverse affect on City revenue, plain and simple. "Staff" get the message to look the other obvious when you hear them make statements such as "I gave the bar a warning" for the umpteenth time.

      Where is that message coming from? Council? Planning? Code? It's top down, that's how any org behavior works.

      Now the breweries are crying into their beer about how mean we are? Give me a break.

    3. The Sheriff wanting to "deploy troops" on the beach was an absurdity in itself. 'They then might have helped downtown' was supposed to make it more appealing. Given the petition for the new position was only made at the last minute during the budget considerations, it seems apparent it was a ploy to push it thru on more of an emotional reaction of "More cops are better". There is no necessity for a beach assignment - the lifeguards are adequate. In addition, a State Parks Ranger can often be seen in the area. How many tiers of "protection" are required? Something stinks about the inability of the Sheriff to deal with the downtown mess - I agree with the posters who suggest it is deliberate.

    4. 7:26,

      Agreed. The Sheriff's captain was bumbling and unprepared about the Baywatch request. I got the impression Muir put her up to it in order to contrast more cops with silly hirings like the Sustainability Czar.

    5. The Council does NOT tell the Sheriff's Commander what to do; PERIOD! Chances are good that the Commander was ordered by her Superior to suddenly bring this request forward and it surprised the rookies; but WHY should the Council take advice/direction from professionals? This blog is beginning to feel like the new movie The Wolfpack that is about a bunch of shut-ins trying to explain the outside and barely seen world. If an extra deputy was put to a popular vote? It would out gain a full-time arborist/sustainability czar: if you want to get a glimpse of Lisa's 'vision' for Encinitas, check out the flick The Road based on Cormac McCarthy's novel.

      Sustainability for everyone.

      While they never put Stocks in the stocks, put your money on Tony ending up there.

    6. 6:16
      "Of all the new businesses that have come into being in our downtown in the last couple of years, I wonder how many are not bars. That might be telling of where our future lies and it doesn't look good."

      Maybe this will help...
      101 DINER
      3rd CORNER
      BIER GARDEN .......
      BLISS 101 553 S Coast Hwy 101
      BULL TACO .
      CAP’N KENO’S
      CHARLIE’S FOREIGN CAR 751 2nd St
      D STREET BAR & GRILL 485 SCH 101
      DEN, The .....
      DETOUR SALON ......
      EL CALLEJON 345 S. Coast Hwy 101
      ENCINITAS 101 Mainstreet ..
      ENCINITAS PIZZA Co. 764 SCH 101
      ENCINITAS SURFBOARDS 107 NCH 101...........
      EZ CARS
      FILIBERTO’S Mexican Restaurant
      FLOWER FRENZY 163 S Coast Hwy 101..........
      FLASHBACKS 576 S Coast Hwy 101
      GARDENOLOGY 587 SCH 101
      GOOD ON YA.
      HAPPY AUTO 148 NCH 101
      HONEY’S Bistro & Bakery 632 SCH 101
      HYDRO-SCAPE 750 SCH 101
      JAVA HUT 1126 SCH 101
      KEALANI’S 137 W. “D” ST
      KIM’S ALTERATIONS 566 SCH 101.
      KIM’S RESTAURANT 745 SCH 101
      LOTUS CAFE & Juice Bar
      LUMBERYARD Tavern & Grill
      MANHATTAN Giant Pizza 143 W. D St.
      MIKE MCGILL’S Skate Shop
      MOONLIGHT YOGURT & ICE 480 SCH 101...
      NIXON WATCHES 701 SCH 101..........................
      POTATO SHACK 120 W. I St
      Q’ERO Restaurant 564 SCH 101
      QUEEN EILEEN’S 548 SCH 101
      SAKURA BANA 1031 SCH 101
      SEASIDE BAZAAR 459 SCH 101
      SIAMESE BASIL Thai Cuisine
      SOLACE & Moonlight Lounge 25 E. E St.
      SONIMA 575 SCH 101
      SOUL SCAPE 765 SCH 101 #106.
      SRF STORE 939 2nd St
      STARBUCKS 947 SCH 101
      ST. TROPEZ Bakery & Bristo
      SWAMI’S CAFE 1164 SCH 101
      THRIFTY THREADS 607 S Coast Hwy 101
      UNION Kitchen & Tap......

    7. Great list and notice the only ones causing 99% of problems downtown are BARS!!!!!

    8. City worker up late. Who's paying the overtime? You know this talk don't come free....

    9. 6:52- nearly 85% of the business you list are pre-bar business. They have been here for a decade. Misinformation and Propaganda- you must work for Stocks and Harwood

    10. Just for grins, I did a little analysis: Of the 101 establishments (coincidence?) in the list, 42 are eating establishments, or 41.58%. Of the eating establishments 52.38% serve alcohol (22). Of those that serve alcohol, 36.36% could be considered "bars" (8). Overall, only 7.92% of establishments are "bars".

      It woulds be interesting to do a similar analysis for the PB business district and compare the results!

      Make of this what you will.

      - The Sculpin

    11. 9:55 & 8:41, cool your jets. I don't work for the city but I do make business maps so the work was already done. Just copied and pasted it. Surprising you'd take offense to the list of over 95% of the businesses downtown and deem it misleading / city paid for propaganda. Second thought, not surprising. But I do like Sculpin's idea of comparing it to PB's list.

  9. Yes 5:55, that is exactly what has happened at the new park. When I asked one of the Deputies who patrols the park, at a council meeting a while ago, he confirmed that very fact.

    He and others had been told not to cite them, as directed by suggestions ? from our very own city council, Tony specifically, but others too, had to be in agreement, to let them continue to flaunt the posted regulations. That the constant smoking there has been allowed to continue without citing the offenders, only adds to the impression that there are no posted regulations that mean a thing.

    Since it happened there at the park, it surely could the case for our downtown bar scene, with pressure coming from the bar owners, to not do anything that would curtail their business profits.

    The park should announce a trial period that will end as soon as possible and that after a posted date, regulations will be enforced, as they should have been from the beginning.

    As for our downtown, some timely road block DUI checks should be instituted at times that would actually make a difference and some foot patrols or bicycle cops or Segway scooters roaming around after midnight until the revelers are all gone. The EHA is going to love this idea. Right?

    1. A DUI checkpoint would strand half the patrons like beached whales.
      7-11 could then have a special on coffee!

  10. The Encinitas Hospitality Association has disappeared. No reports, nothing.
    Councilmembers Kranz and Shaffer's agenda report for tomorrow night don't mention the EHA. Bring back the deemed approved ordinance, pass it, and get on to bringing peace to the Downtown Encinitas.

  11. Smoking at the park is such a non issue, I can't believe anyone cares. Drunks driving is the problem.

    1. 11:56 doesn't believe in the Rule of Law.

      We should take the smokers out to sea, fire warning shots at them, then run them over with boats.

    2. 12:06

      if smoking in public is against the law- thenit is against the law
      illegal immigration is against the law- so it is against the law

      yes- it is that black and white

  12. 11:56, a homeless friend of mine got a ticket for smoking at Glen Park.

  13. 11:56am Smoking at our parks is a big issue when the rest of us don't want to breath your second hand smoke while enjoying our parks and beaches and have to see all the butts that are left behind everywhere by irresponsible smokers. The butts are classified as a toxic substance and should be deposited in the trash, not thrown to the ground wherever it is convenient.

    Our city has statutes that ban all smoking including vapor devices at all of our parks and beaches. That some ignore it and do as they please and throw the butts everywhere, is criminal. Again, Cig butts are classified as a toxic substance and should be discarded in a trash receptacle, not on the street, alleys, sidewalks, parks and beaches.

    If some end up getting a ticket for smoking where they shouldn't, they have earned it.

    Smoking at the new skate park couldn't set a worse example for the young skaters coming up. Any parent who goes there with their child and sees the behaviors that have been allowed to continue should want and expect better from our council who has allowed this to go on without a price to pay.

  14. This morning on the 101 downtown next door to the Salon, I saw a construction cover over the former business next door announcing something like how good it is to get a buzz on and do you wanna get a good buzz on. I hope the Salon is expanding their footprint and it is not another bar or vapor store about to open. Hopefully the buzz is referring to a haircut. Fingers are crossed that it is just that innocent and the Salon needs more space.

    No more bars downtown, no more vapor stores downtown. Where are the local temperance league ladies who work to keep our youth away from addiction when it comes to these vapor stores? These attract more youth to smoking in spite of their owners claiming they get people off of tobacco products. They are just another form of a drug delivery device hiding in sheeps' clothing. We have more than enough [too many] of these already just as we have enough bars.

    Can our downtown attract something other than these or is it already too late?

    1. You're bagging on bars, but hope the Saloon is expanding? Kind of contradictory comment, isn't it?

    2. Buzz is a coffee shop providing a real service of sobering up the drunks before they take the wheel.

    3. The other Buzz shops close at 9.

  15. 5:37 thanks for clearing that up. I wish them well with their excellent location. A little more coffee around there is a good thing. When are they due to open up?

    2:50pm The thought of the Saloon never entered my mind. I was referring to the Salon, as in Hair Salon. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you. Besides the Saloon is on the next block. It is hard to keep up with all the bars and where they are exactly. As one who doesn't frequent them, they all look the same to me as I drive by. You do know the difference between a saloon and a salon I hope or have you already been tipping a few at the Saloon. Now go down to the Salon and clean yourself up. Just trying to make a funny. No worries.

  16. 2:17 I'm more worried about the addiction I see of CELL PHONES while people are driving.

    1. 8:30 PM There is a law for that as well, but the Sheriff's Department seems to do nothing about it, as well as the nuisances with the bar scene downtown.

      No wonder these cops get fat sitting around on their fat asses. All they want to do is collect their big paycheck.

    2. Along with their limo tints (can't see the driver), broken head and tail lights and LOUD modified mufflers. We don't need a deputy on the beach we need more handing out tickets for traffic violations including speeding, parking violations, failure to signal and running red lights. I see this every single day here. Why is this city turning into such a poop hole?

    3. 2:14, Hey, we don't allow breweries, Redevelopment, 30 ft buildings or vote for juvenile racists. We've begun to wipe ourselves.

  17. Cops in Encinitas is a joke… they don't give any tickets on the streets. Only harass family beach goers.

  18. Fire the new Police Captain. She is useless.

  19. 6:00 PM oops....Salon Saloon - what a difference an "o" can make....

  20. I think the Sheriffs are actually intimidated to walk the downtown streets on the weekends. In their cars, they can hide and limit the number of people that they encounter by single traffic stops. On the streets, they'd have to deal with the crowds, who might feel emboldened by their numbers. If a skuffle broke out, the cops could be overwhelmed. Maybe they could have their sniper from Village Park provide cover with his AR15! Don't expect walking beats to be implemented anytime soon.

  21. I encourage those critical of the Sheriff's performance to take part in the ride-along program. If, after doing so, you feel the same way, please come back and post to your hearts content. You will be speaking from experience......

    - The Sculpin

    1. Did you get your Johnny G-Man badge after the ride?

    2. 10:48 AM

      Good to see you're keeping up the high standards here on this blog. You must have wowed them on the playground.

    3. Sculpin, what a wasted and boring day that must have been. Did you make to Starbucks?

    4. No, I did not get a G-Man badge, and no, I did not wow anyone on the playground, and no, I never made it to Starbucks. I don't think Starbucks even existed! What it did do was give me access to an officer for 8 hours, talk to him about all sorts of related and unrelated stuff, and get an idea of how he spent his day. 12:09 - sure, it wasn't the most exciting day, but it was very informative. As such, I encourage others to do it. 'nuff said.

      - The Sculpin

    5. 12:47 We have better things to do than sitting around bullshitting with a cop. They all have enormous egos.

    6. 2:17, so stroke 'em a little and stop saying shit like "Am I being detained?" when they stop you.

  22. 11:54 AM Your need a refresher course in snappy retorts. Where'd the "playground" quip originate - the stale archives of your frustrations?

  23. Bottom Feeder [you were the one who chose sculpin, after all] riding along with one of our deputy sheriffs has absolutely nothing to do with the issue being discussed about the inability of the sheriff captain to commit her deputies valuable time to our downtowns late night 'vibrancy' while wanting us to cough up another $200,000 grand for a FTE and adding a police beach patrol bikini watch. That is the issue under discussion. As is typical, you are ever the apologist and in so doing, enable the continuation of such wasteful attempts at squandering our limited tax dollars on useless ideas of where we really need enforcement.

    If the sheriff really wanted public support she would have proposed adding two to four deputies on the late night patrol around our downtown.

    What does riding along during the daytime have to do with the PB North situation that has been allowed to fester without mitigation all over downtown Encinitas? I am glad you enjoyed your ride along. I doubt they offer those from midnight to 3am, which if you did, it might be illuminating and you could join the rest of us up here on the surface.

  24. 2:29 - thank you for the kind words, and actually it is exactly on point. The issue is staffing and allocation of resources. many of the posters here do not understand why the captain is unable to re-allocate her resources to patrolling the downtown vibrancy. Naturally, it begs the question "what are the deputy's spending their time on?". The response from posters on this are generally uninformed at best, and derogatory and slanderous at worst - hardly the stuff of rational decision making. I have no idea where we really need enforcement because I'm not sure what enforcement is actually being done. Do you know how many deputy's we have? Do you know how many calls they go on per shift? Do you know what kind of call is typical? How much time they spend per call?

    As for the ride along, it was a long time ago, and it was a night shift. I also happened to recognize one of the DUI suspects he pulled over as a neighbor. That was interesting...they made me stay in the car.......

    - The Sculpin

    1. Police these days often use GPS location services and mapping software to schedule patrols exactly where the need is, considering both call density and severity of different areas at specific times of day and days of the week.

      Much of the shenanigans downtown probably happens when most people are asleep, and probably goes unreported.

      Its possible that the software underrepresents the need for patrols downtown at closing time.

    2. One deputy, two or more deputies.

      There is a county sheriff. He has a lot of deputies. They are sheriff's deputies. They're in the sheriff's department.

  25. The bottom line is you want more sherriffs, you pay for my sherriffs. The city pays a yearly contract with the dept. to provide police services. More cops = more money paid out by the city.

    FYI, the DUI roadblocks are usually paid for by a grant as it's usually a joint taskforce, and yet again, it costs money to have the cops there.

    Only the Sculpin was able to make a relevant comment as to how policing actually works. The rest if just the usual bitter pill and off -target commenting.

    1. Sculpin groupie - that's even lower than a bottom feeder.

  26. 5 sheriffs deputies spotted at 7-11 today about 3 PM. Did the GPS register a donut?

    1. Good one...they were probably just staging more community based harassment against another innocent citizen. Institutionalize, incarcerate, or execute.

  27. The contract with the sheriffs is in our hands since it is our tax dollars that are paying them. If we added a stipulation in that contract that insisted upon enforcement for our downtown late night shenanigans be instituted, would they go along or would they balk and refuse the almighty dollars that we already pay them?

    They have us over a barrel for now and won't increase surveillance of the downtown bar scene until a real threat of funding comes into play. It all comes down to money in the end, doesn't it?

    I hope council doesn't fold and give the captain all she wants, while not a thing changes down there. If she can't commit deputies where they are needed the most, at the times they are needed the most, why are we paying them? Why should we pay for another FTE when we have no guarantee anything will be different?

    A woman showed up last week speaking before the council about some incident on her block that required ??? ten patrols cars to show up. They all killed time on their shifts standing around doing little. Surely, they were not all needed. This seems to be standard practice around here. Anyone that gets pulled over will attract other on duty personnel whether they are needed or not. We have all seen this. A couple of weeks ago on my way home from a council meeting, I saw two patrol cars attending to a singular man on a bicycle sitting on the curb near the 5on Leucadia Blvd. that must have been too much for a single patrol car to handle.

    There has to be a better way for us to get our moneys worth from the sheriffs dept. and demand what we need from them. All contracts are always up for review. All it takes is the will to want what we need when and where we need it. Are they going to say no and refuse the payment they get for their services because we want them where and when we need them the most?

    1. Personally, I don't think it's wise policy for the city to start dictating where to place patrols based on anecdotal evidence and emotion.

      What I would support is a request that the Sheriff come before council to explain the methodology and data they use to schedule patrols.

      If the methods are flawed, haphazard, or less than scientific, then I think the city can request changes to those methods.

      On the other hand, if the Department can demonstrate that their policies and methods for allocating resources are sound and smart, then the City needs to either leave them alone, or fund overlay coverage for downtown.

      But to simply demand more response downtown without understanding what that does to coverage in other neighborhoods would be irresponsible squeaky wheel planning.


  28. Aw dag nab it FP, you were making so much sense until you got to the part about throwing more money at the problem. Seeing that 10 units can show up for one random call during the day that's not a hostage situation, isn't $28,000,000 per year for law enforcement enough for Encinitans to pay to include decent coverage for downtown at night?.

    1. To clarify, I'm not suggesting we pony up for additional coverage. I'm suggesting that you make a choice between "do nothing" and "pony up" in the event that the Sheriffs can demonstrate that their coverage models make sense. "Do nothing" is not always a bad option.

      If we did decide to fund add-on coverage for downtown, it should be (to steal a phrase) timely, targeted, and temporary. Example: an extra unit downtown on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights between 11pm and 2:30am, for the next six months. Then reevaluate.


    2. They have the resources in place now to attend to the weekend bar activity. They just don't want to do what is most effective - get out of their cars and walk a beat. I think they are afraid of confrontation.