People who bought high-density condos wedged between a full-horn-blast, dozens-of-times-a-day railroad crossing and the "vibrant" nightlife of downtown 101 suddenly don't like the fact that they live above a popular bar.
The new Bier Garden in front of Whole Foods has a pretty spectacular layout for an open-air beach bar. The windows open so that the bartenders and taps inside can serve patrons sitting along the exterior patio bar. The setup evokes your favorite tropical vacation memories, or maybe Pacific Beach.
Or so it was clearly designed all along, until the residents (er, wealthy second-homers and speculators) in Pacific Station pushed the city to order the windows closed. To be fair, the previous restaurant there, Barracuda Bar & Grill, was always dead as a door nail, so the Pac Stationers may have thought it would be like that forever. But vibrancy marches on.
Last night, the Planning Commission voted 3-1 to allow the windows to open.
A downtown restaurant known for its vast selection of beers can create glass-less “window” spaces linking its outdoor patio and its indoor dining areas, even though nearby homeowners hate the idea, the Encinitas Planning Commission decided Thursday night.In a reasonable compromise, the windows will be closed at 10 pm nightly.
[...]
Holding up her iPhone, which contains a noise-level-sensing application, Pacific Station resident Susan Crane said that she’s measured sound levels at 75 to 78 decibels in her bedroom — and that’s with both her windows and the restaurant’s closed.
“Consequently, I have issues with the windows ever being opened,” she said.
While Pacific Station residents blamed their noise woes on the restaurant, which they said recently lost much of its interior soundproofing in a renovation project, Bier Garden representatives and Planning Commissioners said their noise problem probably came from the other side of Coast Highway 101.
The First Street Bar & Grill, which is across the street from the Bier Garden and Pacific Station, has live music, karaoke and dancing late at night, unlike the Bier Garden, attorney Marco Gonzalez said.
The city should never have allowed plans for an open-air bar to go all the way through the permitting and construction process, and then tried to take away the open air. And people who buy into developments that change community character shouldn't complain when they get what they asked for.
You are up early! (Or getting home late).
ReplyDeleteGood blog post, I agree with your commentary.
They sought approval after the fact. Never was approved beforehand. One more step to becoming PB.
ReplyDeleteThe city never saw the construction plans with slide-away windows between the bar and the taps?
DeleteYou sure about that?
Hard to believe in a city that micro-manages construction.
WCV
Yes. That is why residents can't believe it was allowed after work was done on the sly. Classic better to ask forgiveness than permission scenario.
ReplyDeleteThey allowed those terrible sliding windows at the union so it is hard to believe they didn't see them in the plans for the bier garden. Perhaps the problem is the shabby construction at pacific station. After looking at the units during an open house it is hard to believe that anyone would have paid the money they were asking.
ReplyDeleteAsk mayor Barth about it she wants everyone to live above a business so we can get more people next to the train. If you live above a business what do you expect, silence?
The shark
I'm liking the fish theme. Pretty soon it will be Encinitas Underwater! Ha!
Delete- The Sculpin
All the restaurants/bars will be installing slide out windows to access the sidewalk hogging tables the city let them install on public property. If you say yes to one, how can you justify saying no to anybody else?
DeleteThe ATM machine must also be removed? That addition was done without design review.
ReplyDeleteAs usual W C you're the last to know. Windows approved after the construction
ReplyDeleteMore D work from you
City staff didn't bring out that point.
DeleteDidn't bring out that point per standard operating procedure called "this is good for our developer friends, the only people who will complain are the 28 identified activists, and who gives a rip about them?"
DeleteHow does a bar business do all the building changes without going through a design review? Simple. City planning let them.
ReplyDeleteJust bring your lawyer along.
ReplyDeleteThe solution is to allow PS to build higher units.
ReplyDeleteIrony at it's finest! If you want to live in a european/urban environment with everything withing walking distance you can't bloody well complain about the noise it brings! I get the concerns of those who live west of 101 - perfectly legitimate and understandable - but Pacific Station?!?!?!?
ReplyDelete- the Sculpin
There are no city standards for mixed-use.
DeleteScuplin you of course have claimed you would like to live at Pacific Station becuase you like New York and London, meanwhile of course you live on acraege in rural olicpvenhain with your horses, isn't it irnoinc, don't you think?
DeleteHere's the real irony.....I have a place in Manhattan! I love it! But it's just impossible to live there.....
Delete- the Sculpin
Was Green Acres one of your favorite shows?
DeleteFred! Are you implying I'm a drama queen?
DeletePlease, dahling............
-the Sculpin
scuplin please listen to your statements, you claim to love it, then say it's impossible to live there....................high density stack and pack problems got you down, or is it your need for open space, freedom and big gulps?
DeleteI'm really not understanding your point. Are you saying the I think Manhattan is just like Pacific Station? If so, you've never been to Manhattan! The reason I feel it's impossible to live there is because there is too much to do. I can go 36 hours there without sleep! It's truly a happening place! Here in Olivenhain I can be with my horses, my quiet, my solitude, my friends. No big gulps. I don't care for them. So I enjoy both. Too many people live in a binary world - it's either this or that. I choose to live in a world with infinite choices and opportunities. I understand what Pacific Station was supposed to be. Didn't quite work out that way but it never was a bad idea.
Delete-The Sculpin
6:25
DeleteNaw, just the ying / yang of prefering New York to the sticks and yet living in the sticks as a compromise. I guess. Lisa Douglas lost that battle or the show would have been called Gray Acres.
Glad Prop A passed. Goal is to keep it a quaint beach family town, not a dense party town like PB.
ReplyDeleteTeresa and Lisa promised to CLOSE these bars down! I hope they don't lie to us again.
ReplyDeleteWorry about Gaspar and Kranz. They like the bars for income.
DeleteAll hope is lost with all five. They've been brainwashed to at best meep out passive statements like Lisa did in her recent newsletter:
Delete"The EHA website says they're holding a community meeting on August 27, and there is a form to use to "be on the invitation list." I'm not sure why it isn't just an open meeting, but it's their meeting."
Yes, it's "their meeting," but the EHA is the group THAT THE COUNCIL APPROVED as the best way for businesses to resolve issues with residents! How about "I will find out why they are not putting their money where their mouths are to ensure they work with the public at large, and will also ensure that this meeting is front and center on the city website."
Guess she's hoping they don't lie, too! Shouldn't we though expect more from a leader than hope?
Teresa and Lisa DID NOT PROMISE TO CLOSE THESE BARS DOWN.
DeleteNo, they didn't. But Lisa sure is happy to take a back seat and hope for the best, which is hardly serving the community. She's on council for a reason, but doesn't seem to know it.
DeleteTHE gang of five led by Barth all promised to protect community character. The gang of 5 led by Barth have all acted to destroy our community character and squander our fiscal resources.
DeleteIt is off the topic but has anyone else noticed how the Coast News never has a quote from a council member or the Mayor anymore? hmmmm
Seems like the only one quoted is Vina, is that because Vina wants to control the message, and in so doing control the council? hmmmmm Is this why Vina wants to hire a PR spin doctor for 135K a year?
Just saying
You can not be an activist setting at home bloging you must get of you're ass
ReplyDeleteAnd go to a council meeting. YOU PEOPLE ARE LAZY WHINERS. Let
Some else do the real work. And then complain. THAT SO COOL
As on of the 28 identified, I can tell you sitting at home is the last thing we do, but on the off-chance you aren't aware, council meetings happen just 3 days (sometimes 4) out of the month. When not there in person, yes, we blog.
DeleteNo laziness here, but plenty of disengaged folk who wake up one day to a Walmart in their backyard...or a bar with open windows...or a fill in the blank and wonder with shock "when did that happen??"
What an arrogant 1% elitist snot you are. What's wrong with Walmart?? Just because you CHOOSE to not shop there you condemn all that do?? Hell has a special place for you.... The official greeter . " hello, welcome to Walmart and Hell official home to low prices and high temperatures."
DeleteWhat IS interesting is that by using her own newsletter as a 'cry for help' against the Bier Garden and Lobster West, deputy mayor Lisa Shaffer has proved once again that she is having difficulty working with others; so she is trying an 'end around' her peers on the Council by rousing the rabble and planting her newsletter on the Patch. Lisa doesn't have the protection of her academic 'bubble' world she existed in for so long: had to laugh when she came out in her last dispatch against the new 'In and Out' Burger drive-thru: odds are 75 to 80% of Encinitas voters can hardly wait until it opens: think of all the carbon that won't be expelled from high school students racing to Palomar Airport Road during their lunch breaks! More sustainable?
DeleteIt's pretty clear Lisa is solely an obstructionist who is against much of what is fun in life. Can hardly wait until she is Mayor so we can get to know the 'real' Lisa! Siberia anybody? Frigidaire?
Schaffer can't wait to retire and earn the same money for doing nothing. She conned the voters. I didn't vote for her and never will.
Delete8:13, nothing is wrong with Walmart, my point is the new encinitas folks were asleep at the wheel till it got snuck in under Stocks. At the ribbon-cutting he was so freaked (not sure why, no one really turned out for it), he went in a side door out of sight, where it was presumed he did some kind of ceremony.
DeleteNo 1% here, just an observer of the reactions to Walmart from formerly disengaged neighbors.
It was a foregone conclusion that no action would be taken on the bars in town - too much money involved here. Barth thinks Pacific Station is the wave of the future? When she did she crash on her bike and incur the brain injury? Face it - money rules this town.
ReplyDeleteI am so disappointed that Marco Gonzalez is representing bar owners in this issue. What happened to his stated values of protecting the environment and other quality of life issues. These owners did not go thought the design review process.
DeleteI hope that some of the residents of Pacific Station pony up and pay the $250 to put in an appeal, so that this issue can be brought before the Council. They had better hurry. I think they have to file next week!
While Gonzalez made a big point about the Pacific Station residents moving in where a bar was already located, he failed to mention that those residents would have seen a bar without large windows that open out to the patio. Gonzales also failed to mention the the new Bier Garden owner bought a bar that was situated right below condos. In other words, the Bier Garden owner didn't buy a bar with windows that open. So why does he have a prior right to change the dynamics and the residents just have to suck it?
DeleteSay what
ReplyDeleteI think it was Kranz and Gaspar who were bought.Do your home work Did you crash on your couch Mr. Potato
Two topics, bonehead.
DeleteDon't know.
ReplyDeleteAll I can telll you is Kranz is awesome as far as integrity.
Tony is a good guy. Lets see what the others have to bring.
I gave money to Kranz's campaign to protect community character. I heard after he election he went to a private mucky muck party with Papa Manchester and high density czar Lynch of the UT, Tony's never been the same, votes for developers and against residents on everything, let's Vina run all over him, Dump One and Done Tony in 2016, keep him from getting a fat pension benefit on backs of taxpayers
Deletelets watch his votes and direction to staff.
DeleteWhile I can empathize with residents affected by bar overflow into the neighborhood (a debatable point, clearly), I have none for those choosing to live in the heart of downtown. What did you expect???
ReplyDeletea City that respects family values and not promoting a party town!!!!!
DeleteI have to say I agree...although the sneaky ATM installation shows that the owner will need to be watched.
ReplyDeleteSay, whatever happened to bar liability for overserving? We've got people too drunk to hail a cab and some bartender wanting to make those extra sales just went for it and looked the other way? The Bier Garden guy needs to wipe the dollar signs out of his eyes and make sure his business is run responsibly.
It was also the sneaky installation of new siding and windows. The owner needed to go through a design review and didn't. The Planning Commission should have given him a good rap on the knuckles and made him come back. He got away with everything except the the installation of the ATM.
DeleteThe Planning Commissioners were lax in not making it clear that their decision can be appealed to the City Council by the condo owners. It was also not made clear that calling the sheriff for noise violations is not a long term solutions for the condos owners if they are correct about excessive levels. They need to file written complaints to code enforcement at City Hall.
Otherwise, nada. The 28 activists can't do it all.
Hey KLCC read today's New York Times page A17. Tells the story of a city that slowed traffic and increased its walkability and has become a thriving place to live. It's also quotes Dan Burden, he was here and told us how wonderful Leucadia can be by slowing traffic and walking around.
ReplyDeleteOh yes.... They added 4 roundabouts to there main highway.
There's more to the story. The town of Hamburg NY has a population of 57,000. The "Village" of Hamburg, call it a subsection, is 10,000. Interesting website for the village and how it was formed.
Delete"Village Services: A Village in New York State is a general purpose municipal corporation formed by the residents of an area of a town to provide municipal services. Village government delivers an enhanced level of service to those concentrated populations living in the village that would not otherwise receive the necessary level of government services they desire from the town. For a complete list of services provided by the Village of Hamburg, see the document titled "Village Services" below."
Is this the NY version of a redevelopment agency?
2:54 Leucadia is already a thriving place to live, that is why everyone is moving here, because of what it is not what it might be. Are you a developer seeking up zone to feather your own nest at the expense of the ccommunity? Hmmmmmmmm sounds that way to me.
ReplyDeleteHmmmmmmmmmm you sound like someone that enjoyed the front page story about Moonbeam Brown.
Delete" Leucadia is already a thriving place to live"
ReplyDeleteWith enough gas burning at stops each day to take you to the east coast and back. That sucks.
Agreed!
DeleteFred- with all respect the subject of round-abouts and whether Leucadia is or is not a thriving place to live are totally different. Are you suggesting Fred the Leucadia is not thriving, the no one want to buy new homes in Leucadia and that there is a mass exodus out of Leucadia because there are no roundabouts?
ReplyDeleteFred- please state for the record, is Leucadia today thriving with increased property values and recognized as a desirable place to live by many? or is it as some suggest 'crappy'- ps- it's a yes or no answer.
Yes and no. What was your question again?? Or maybe it's no and yes.
Delete10:46
ReplyDelete"Fred- with all respect the subject of round-abouts and whether Leucadia is or is not a thriving place to live are totally different."
Yes they are. But you claim people who move here do so not wanting infrastructural and visual improvements. I have yet to meet them. For over 20 years locals have been telling the city what we want and now we're thankfully getting it.
Of course we are very blessed to live in paradise and where property values fair better than most places, in spite of our infrastructural and visual shortcomings. That doesn't mean people don't want good change.
"Are you suggesting Fred the Leucadia is not thriving, the no one want to buy new homes in Leucadia and that there is a mass exodus out of Leucadia because there are no roundabouts?"
Not whatsoever.
You insist roundabouts are part of a secret agenda tool developers use to congest, but don't give any examples. Will roundabouts circumvent Prop A? No.
Can you agree that removing 22 mandatory stops on and along N 101 collectively saves thousands of miles of travel each day for motorists? No. Perhaps one of us is using inaccurate math?
Is improving safety, air quality, gas consumption, car maintenance and your precious time important to you? Not as important as leaving things the way they are now to you.
Would you prefer to make a left turn onto 101 from the west by dodging 3 lanes of 35mph traffic as opposed to merging with 1 lane of 15mph traffic? I'm guessing you do.
I respect your right to select what you prefer.
But when I see the benefits of there being:
*
* 37 percent reduction in overall collisions
* 75 percent reduction in injury collisions
* 90 percent reduction in fatality collisions
* 40 percent reduction in pedestrian collisions (not 1 US ped death in 2012)
* Less costly in the long run
* 100% more appealing than sky clutter.
* Making travel from point A to point B more efficient
* Using less gas / less money
* Causing less vehicle maintenance
* Improving air quality (less acceleration than after making complete stops)
* Providing new options for local drivers (U-turns and safer left turns)
to date, I see roundabouts as the closest things to magic that traffic improvements may ever attain. I appreciate we live in a city that takes these benefits seriously.
I hear two arguments against our proposed roundabouts.
1. "The sky is filling" high density boogeyman (for an area 90% built out).
2. "There are no and should be no 3-way roundabouts in the US next to a railroad." myth.
Both are not so.
PS, I know you're not a crooked judge, but it's usually those who don't want to hear explanations and request a simple YES or NO answer "for the record". I think most citizens want to know reasons WHY an answer is yes or no.
Spot on, Fred - again!
Delete- The Sculpin
It would be interesting to know who's behind the roundabouts in the first place, just as it was interesting to know who was behind the Yes on A group vs. the No group.
ReplyDeleteI first heard Norby saying with that big smile of his: "I see roundabouts as a unifying theme for Encinitas." Where did he get that idea? Did residents indicate that we wanted or needed a theme?
His remark seemed as odd then as it does now, and he had none of Fred's stats (real or not), to back him up...just this theme thing that something tells me did not come out of thin air.
Fred, your statistics are skewed, and not on subject.
ReplyDeleteBut, for the record, you fail to share that those are collisions for roundabouts where there were formerly stop signals, compared to NOT having stop signals. Those are statistics, perhaps, for intersections that before had ALL way stop signs, with actual cross streets, so with stop signs north and south, and east and west.
Check out the staff report for the July 18, 2012 Council Meeting. For a three year study, intersections north of Leucadia Blvd, on 101, had less collisions and a better safety record that similar intersections throughout the state. You can compare any two things, Fred, but you are comparing apples and oranges. The intersections at the roundabouts that we already have in Encinitas, two of them on Leucadia Blvd., have had MORE collisions after roundabout installation than before. We do not need roundabouts for safety reasons on 101. The speed limit has already been reduced to 35 MPH. Your accident on El Portal and 101 was before the speed limit was reduced, Fred, as you've said.
Saying something is "not so," does not make your unverified assumption true Fred. Please name any other location along Highway 101, or anywhere in California, where there are 3-way intersection, one-lane roundabouts adjacent to a railroad. I asked Dan Burdon and Peltz & Associates to name any anywhere in the U.S., and they could not. Those photo links you provided didn't look as though there were railroad tracks directly adjacent? Also, you were showing photos of three roads merging into one roundabout, but none of them had similar geographical locations, of being between a major recreational, beach access/egress corridor, residential street, Neptune, and the railroad tracks, which has caused businesses to be on the west side of the highway, only. We could have some left hand turn lane and u-turn lane improvements WITHOUT forcing four one-lane roundabouts on unenthusiastic and unwilling adjacent residents and local commuters.
People may have been asking for improvements, as in the flooding situation, for years, but we haven't been asking for four one-lane roundabouts. Very few have. A public vote would demonstrate that. As we saw from the "rebooted" General Plan Update, whereby over a million dollars was wasted on MIG consultants, workshops can twist results and actually act as opportunities for special interests to lobby Council and staff, and assert their "symbiotic partnership" with the city through the leverage of unreported political favors.
Here's something a friend wrote to me, who was speaking to another mutual friend about the streetscape "friday evening at the gallery opening of Jon Van Hamesrveld's show at the TFR gallery [next to Papagayo's], the streetscape's effect on the Leucadia blvd intersection will be devastating. Extending the left turn lane onto Leucadia blvd. involves cutting down that magnificent mature tree is a travesty. Surely there could be a way around it to preserve that mature canopy producing wonder. Perhaps it could be designated as one of our towns historical monuments and be preserved. Those old photos of the median with alternating cypress should be preservable. Maybe Mark Wisnewski (sp) [he has made great presentations at Council Meetings during oral communications re saving our trees] could chime in to help preserve that mature specimen. Thanks for listening and if you get a chance check out Jon Van Hamersveld show at the TFR gallery. anyone who lived through that period will easily recognize the images John made famous."
ReplyDeleteAs for the bar scene in downtown Encinitas, I do think open windows puts a new "monkey wrench" into the mix. Good that they can only be open until 10, but I can imagine that nearby neighbors would be upset. I was with Gil Forrester on the Pacific Station issue. Sufficient parking was not provided for all the potential retail, offices, restaurants, bars and condos. Seven parking spots were removed from the streets to build it. Construction dirt was dumped on our Leucadia beaches. Few people protested, but I was at the Council Meeting when Gil Forrester appealed. He asked for concessions, like some kind of metered system in the parking garage. None were given, that I can recall. The project "sailed through," and was later given "tax increment" incentives, and others, almost didn't make it, as Moonlight Lofts didn't, going bankrupt, until Whole Foods decided to come in, and acted as a kind of "anchor."
Same old junk....zero logic and common sense.
ReplyDeleteSad she got that brain.... reminds be of the movie Young Frankenstein.
Lynn,
ReplyDeleteYou fail to believe the destiny of 101 is more stops - like Solana Beach, like the ped crossing at Swami's etc. I'm not comparing delicious fruits. I'm comparing safe and efficient change to more of the same unsafe and inefficient change.
"Your accident on El Portal and 101 was before the speed limit was reduced, Fred, as you've said."
Running a stop sign at any speed spells a T-bone disaster, Lynn.
You keep narrowing your request Lynn. I showed you a 3 way roundabout next to railroad in the US a few hundred miles away. That wasn't good enough. And the tracks there DO run parallel to the road wheter you could see them or not.
"We could have some left hand turn lane and u-turn lane improvements WITHOUT forcing four one-lane roundabouts on unenthusiastic and unwilling adjacent residents and local commuters."
We sure could. But more stops and/or stop lights as some propose are the real enemy of safety, time, money and space here.
Well, I guess you'll have to go get your 8000 signatures from people who prefer the drag of the 22 stops they currently have to make here. If I could make a hypnotic suggestion, it would be for your least favorite song to play in your head every time you applied the brake to each of these stop - just a reminder that you wouldn't usually have to waste 5 minutes of your life every day idle.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteDrive safe! 35 mph ain't a cure all, but definately helps. Those A students in debate class however will say "Yeah, but that crash wouldn't have happened at 40mph cause his car would have cleared the other one...."
ReplyDeletehttp://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1af_1325757898
or "Yeah, but that intersection isn't 3 way, next to an ocean in between a railroad corridor in the day time."
ReplyDeleteNo, your previous Googled comparisons are not 3 way intersection roundabouts with a main arterial running parallel to RR tracks, Fred, and with the "merging street" at a right angle, and with no possibility of crossing over to the other side of the tracks.
DeleteWe do have a unique situation, here, with the beaches on one side, and the RR Tracks on the other. That is what is "narrowing" the comparison, Fred, not me, but the actual circumstances of Highway 101, through Leucadia. You can google other states, like Arizona, or Colorado to your heart's content, but we do have unique circumstances here.
Please stop counting all the stop signs at Marchetta, until you can prove, in writing, that those stop signs will be removed. The stop signs at Hygeia and Leucadia Blvd never were eliminated, although that was supposed to be part of that multi-million dollar roundabout project, as was landscaping and more sidewalks that never were installed, either, there. Instead, the money was diverted to lobbyists/consultants for special interest driven roundabouts on Highway 101.
Also, even stretching your "concept" I don't get how you could count more than three stop signs at El Portal and 101, one for southbound, one for northbound, and one for traffic merging onto the highway. Are you counting two stop signs at every intersection exiting onto 101, one for motorists turning right and one for those turning left? Don't you get how you are exaggerating the number of stop signs?
It may sound good to you to say 22 stop signs would be eliminated, but we don't have stop signs, here, as in Del Mar, or as on Lone Jack, in Olivenhain. And the staff report for 7/18/12 says they are NOT warranted on North 101. Again, a small minority should not force its agenda on everyone else.
Again, and I keep repeating, because you don't seem to get it, as for the stop signs on the streets exiting north or south onto 101, from west of the highway, how many times are you counting each of those intersections stops signs, Fred? If there are four one-lane roundabouts planned, (with smaller diameters, less safety features, and statistically MORE dangerous for bicyclist, nationwide) wouldn't only four stop signs be eliminated for those?
Do you have an actual traffic count of people exiting and turning left? Moreover, can't you understand that when there is traffic, people approaching the roundabout, from west of 101, will slow down to a stop, because the north/south traffic through the roundabouts would make it difficult to yield, without stopping? This happens all the time NOW at the existing roundabouts during peak traffic. So STOPPING will not be eliminated. This is NOT going to be AUTOPIA, like at Disneyland.
This issue could be put on the General Election ballot by Council, at a cost of around $23,000. Not everything that is put on a ballot has to be initiative driven, Fred. You know that. Also, Council could have adopted Prop A outright, as Tony Kranz originally suggested, and then "tweaked" the ordinance created, by putting a similar, but conceivably slightly different initiative on the ballot in November of next year, and would have saved the City (and taxpayers, fee payers) about $350,000.
Because over 8,000 people signed the petition, Prop A qualified for a Special Election. That should have been more incentive to adopt outright and vote at the General Election. But less than 6,000 could have signed, and because 15% of registered voters qualified as having signed by the Registrar of Voters, the Registrar stopped counting.
So, even if this issue were to be initiative driven, because Council is so influenced by Special Interests, that it won't put it on the ballot itself, so the people could decide, it would take FAR LESS than 8000 people to qualify it for the General Election ballot next year. You are again skewing the statistics, Fred. But thanks for calling out rudeness.
I meant I don't see how you can count more than 3 stop signs at Marchetta, not El Portal, sorry. Right now, I would only count El Portal as having one stop sign, for people exiting onto the highway.
DeleteThe 7/18/12 Agenda report specifically said that it would NOT recommend lane elimination south of Leucadia Blvd. The four one-lane roundabouts would effectively change the four lane arterial highway to a two lane road, with choke points, causing more cut through traffic, more health and safety concerns, especially slower emergency response times, and more issues for bicyclists.
Why would the first planned roundabout be at El Portal, after the staff report recommends no "lane diet" south of Leucadia Blvd., on 101? The staff report also said there is already traffic back-up between Marchetta and Leucadia Blvd, which is exactly where El Portal is, between the signalized intersection at Leucadia Blvd, which will NOT be removed, and the stop sign at Marchetta, which I have seen no evidence will be removed, either. Cartoon drawings, non-engineered schematics, don't count, neither does somebody's self-serving opinion.
1. Your request was for any place in the country that had a 3 way roundabout next to a railroad and I sent you exactly that. Will send to anyone else who asks.
Delete2. Everywhere is unique as far as roads go.
3. I will not stop counting the stops at Marcheta being removed. I have verification from the city on my message machine if you'd like me to play that for you. Good enough for me and eveyrone else I should think.
4. The stop signs at Hygeia were supposed to be removed for a roundabout but have not been yet. That's not the only thing in town planned but postphoned or discarded. So even if I did get it in writing from the city that Marcheta stops on 101 will be removed, it still wouldn't be good enough for you because you'd just come back to the Hygeia comparison to argue your point so why bother?
5. Lynn, the next time your're driving north on 101 toward Marchetta and either want to make a left turn, a U-turn or go straight, it is mandaroy you stop first. ONE stop sign removed eliminates stopping (most of the time) for the same lane of traffic headed 3 different directions. At the El Portal roundabout you won't have to stop most of the time, no matter which direction you're headed. I never said 22 stop signs and lights will be eliminated. I said mandatory stops for cars will be. If you can't grasp the reality and value of that, I'm beginning to understand one reason why you're against roundabouts.
Another way to view these facts is:
* 8 physical stop signs total will be removed with Streetscape
* 5 red lights will be removed.
* That equals 22 places where people now MUST stop at signs and red lights no matter which direction they're going. Count em yourself.
* Then add the other benefits roundabouts will bring with the capabilities of making U-Turns at 6 or 7 different places where U-turns do not exist right now.
" Right now, I would only count El Portal as having one stop sign, for people exiting onto the highway."
Remove the one stop sign at El Portal, and you remove two mandatory STOPS for people going north or south onto the hwy. Unless of course its someone who drives like the guy who broad-sided my van last year at that same street.
Most of the time when one approaches our existing roundabouts they do not have to stop. Even when traffic is heavy, there are almost always breaks when no one is in the circle to your left. Of course there will always be times of the most congestion - especially when there's a problem on the freeway. That's life. Still roundabouts afford the best circulation possible with few exceptions.
Fred, I never could find the RR tracks in the links you sent. Could you post the links here, on the blog, so everyone can see them. I many not be great at interpreting the aerial photos or maps.
DeleteAlso, Fred, you are missing my point and not answering the question. Although both motorists turing left or right from El Portal must stop, in your "skewed statistics" you are counting that intersection as having MORE THAN ONE STOP SIGN!
DeleteWhile a roundabout would theoretically eliminate stops mandated by stop signs, it would NOT eliminate stops mandated by north/southbound traffic in the one lane roundabout. People turning right or left from streets west of the roundabout would often, especially during peak hours, such as during commuting time, be required to stop, in order to yield.
You have not shown any numbers to justify your incorrect conclusion that for the one-lane roundabouts proposed for 101, people would not have to stop because, "Most of the time when one approaches our existing roundabouts they do not have to stop." That is not true during higher traffic periods, and you, yourself, are not driving existing roundabouts, then, I would hazard to guess, such as during morning or evening commutes. Those who have been caught up and stopped, for precious minutes, in traffic exacerbated by them, including during recent emergencies, would beg to differ.
Fred, I asked that you take all the signals at La Costa that you are counting "off the table" for now. I am talking about the four one-lane roundabouts planned, that will effectively reduce a previous four lane major arterial, primary circulation element, Historic State Highway, within the Coastal Zone, to only one lane northbound and one lane southbound, traveling at 15MPH AT BEST, and at a standstill, during gridlock.
DeleteAlready subpar emergency response times would be slowed, more, bus stops would be eliminated or relocated; there would be more cut through traffic through residential neighborhoods and a school zone at Paul Ecke Central, creating additional emergency challenges, with four one-lane roundabouts at intersections that currently have NO crosstreets, and no stop signs for north/southbound traffic.
I'm all for a couple of u-turn lanes, and making the Rail Trail Corridor Bicycle Masterplan a reality, as part of the Streetscape, as well as more flowers, enhancing the canopy, watering the flora, removing the weeds, restoring the picnic table and benches in Leucadia Roadside Park.
Your logic is so twisted Lword. Traffic would not travel at 15 mph, it would travel between 20 and 40 mph, just like Leucadia Blvd. between the traffic signals at Vulcan and I5.
DeleteAt the traffic signals at I5 and Vulcan, traffic travels at zero and waits several minutes to crawl past the point to the next light.
With Signals much more time is spent stopped, idling, wasting time and gas.
We know you will never get it, but thank god most smart people do.
Sigh.......
Put up or shut up Lword. Run for council and see how much people agree with your views. If elected, your hours of talking may actually be listened to by one or two staff members, because the get paid to listen to some stupid comments from lame councilmembers.
How you don't see that the roundabouts on Leucadia Blvd, Sante Fe, and the ones in birdrock are soooo much better than all way stops and signals is beyond me. Double Sigh.......
What is being proposed will NOT be roundabouts replacing all way stops, so again, you are comparing apples to oranges.
DeleteThe roundabouts at Leucadia Blvd, do slow traffic to 15 MPH within the roundabouts. Although there, on Leucadia Blvd., there are two roundabouts and a stop sign between Vulcan and I-5. So while motorists might get their speed up to 20 MPH, it won't be much more than that, before having to slow down again. while traversing through the two roundabouts and the stop sign.
The difference on 101 is that FOUR one lane roundabouts are proposed, with the first one a couple of blocks before a signal that already creates traffic back-up during peak periods. So that's two more roundabouts, and a signal, that Leucadia Blvd. doesn't have. Plus Leucadia Blvd. has actual cross streets, so roundabouts are not placed, there, at three way intersections, only.
All the challenges that Leucadia may have, the improvements that could be made with respect to getting rid of Goathead thorns, watering the plants, enhancing the canopy, which has been sadly depleted, and which would suffer MORE should the one-lane roundabouts be installed, because the median would have to be significantly narrowed, according to ENGINEERED drawings, don't MANDATE installation of roundabouts. Roundabouts would actually make matters worse. Leucadia is a great community. It is thriving, although those who charge higher rents will have more vacancies.
The City should go ahead with fulfilling the Bicycle Masterplan and working to install a dedicated, Class 1 bicycle lane in the railtrail corridor, north to La Costa. That is where any money toward improving Leucadia could more wisely be spent.
I "put up" by offering my observations, the facts, and my opinions, here.
"What is being proposed will NOT be roundabouts replacing all way stops, so again, you are comparing apples to oranges."
DeleteWhat is being proposed not only eliminates all way stops, it prevents inevitable future ones.
Ur opinions are far from Fact!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteLynn, when did I ever say 22 STOP SIGNS would be removed? Never. Revealing the truth that the 13 or so mandatory stops that will be removed actually remove the requirement of stopping for traffic going in 22 different directions is not at all skewing but a valid part of the scientific equation for the amount of time, money, gas etc that motorists will save.
Delete"Fred, I never could find the RR tracks in the links you sent. Could you post the links here, on the blog, so everyone can see them. I many not be great at interpreting the aerial photos or maps."
DeleteSure Lynn. Here's also is some documentation why roundabouts should not INTERACT or INTERSECT with railroads. They fully explain problems involved when that happens. (None of our roundabouts will interact with the adjacent railway.)
http://lscdenver.com/Papers/Roundabouts%20near%20Railroad%20Crossings%20By%20Ariniello.pdf
http://wisdotresearch.wi.gov/wp-content/uploads/tsrroundaboutsrail.pdf
And below is an example of another railroad that does not intersect but is ADJACENT to two roundabouts.
http://transportation.ky.gov/Congestion-Toolbox/Pages/Roundabouts.aspx
And I can't link to this thread the Google Earth's E. MAIN ST. / DOAN ST. 3 way roundabout right next to a railroad in Casa Grande, AZ that I sent before, but I can email you a better shot of the tracks right next to it if you like. Or GE it yourself and zoom in.
I couldn't see the RR trackks in the Casa Grande example, Fred, when you sent it, before. I'll look for your e-mail.
DeleteWith respect to the KENTUCKY roundabout you showed adjacent to the railroad, it DOES have legitimate cross streets, with one of them going UNDER the RR tracks. So that is also dissimilar to our three way intersections with NO cross-streets.
Fred, you keep talking about removing "mandatory stops," but stops ARE mandatory during peak periods for people turning onto 101 from streets west. When traffic is high, northbound/southbound, people MUST stop, so those stops will NOT be eliminated.
DeleteThat's how you are skewing this; you are assuming a "best case" scenario, without proof of actual northbound/southbound traffic volumes, and the number of motorists turning onto 101 from west of the highway.
There is now one stop sign at El Portal and 101. I am sorry if someone ran the stop sign at Marchetta and Tboned you, Fred. You can't eliminate all accidents, and all maniac drivers on highways, by slowing everyone down to 15 MPH through a series of four one-lane roundabouts.
Also, please show me anywhere where the City has verified, IN WRITING, that it intends to eliminate the stop signs at Marchetta and 101. I DID see in writing where the one at Hygeia and Leucadia Blvd. was to be eliminated, which NEVER happened.
Did you notice how I supplied you with 3 roundabouts next to railroads in the U.S. as per your request? Contradicting my answer to your question with something entirely else you didn't ask for doesn't make for a good argument. Sure, Kentucky's TWO roundabouts are obviously dissimilar to ours in many ways. So what? That wasn't your question. You specifically wanted to see ONE sample in the US of a roundaoubt next to a railroad. I showed you 3. So when you get the better pic of the first example I sent, don't change the original question to me again, as though I did not answer it.
DeleteYou show us IN WRITING how many cars maximum a: travel 101 each day and b: how many egress and access 101 to and from the west. Only then could you begin to accuse me or anyone else of skewwing numbers.
I called the city, they called back telling me Marcheta St. will be removed with Phase 1 of Streetscape when the El Portal roundabout is opened. That's all you're going to get from me unless you want to hear the message yourself. But sounds to me like you're just looking for future ammunition if the stop for whatever reason were not taken down - like you do when you pull the guns out on the Hygeia roundabout that's not built yet.
Yes there is one stop sign at El Portal St. right now - the widest street adjacent to 101. That will change. People who now have to stop to make a right AND people who now have to stop to make a left will no longer have to do that most times when they approach the roundabout from the west. That's a total of TWO mandatory stops gone because of ONE sign.
Not to mention that the pop-outs and slower speeds will mean crossing one lane of traffic for pedestrians and bikes instead of one gargantuan width of street. A fairly busy intersection. Guess the only way we could resolve that is to put a time elapsed camera on Leucadia Glass for a week during summer - since you probably doubt any figures the city calculates. I know back in 95, our biz district was missing 6000 cars per day/night going south during the 6 month construction of the Batiquitos bridge. That's probably conservative today.
Better yet, let's have a contest to see who comes closest! It costs 5 bucks to enter and the best guess wins. We'll even let the city and Peltz play. I'm in!
Thanks for sending me the Casa Grande photo, Fred. I'm still not sure I see RR tracks, but in any case I admit, we are unique, here. I did ask you to show me one, anywhere, and perhaps that one in a small Arizona town is what I requested.
DeleteSo thanks, but it doesn't negate the fact that our situation IS different, with a major arterial, Historic State Hwy 101 that divides a major beach access and recreational/residential street, Neptune, on the ocean blufftops, from the RR corridor. That photo from Casa Grande does look like a "horse town" as you suggested, with much less traffic, and more open space than here, along Pacific Coast Highway. I know you cannot show me any thee way intersection roundabouts similar to ours on PCH anywhere else in the state, but good for you that you found "ho-dunk" Casa Grande.
Also, it may be good enough for you, but it's obviously not good enough for me that someone on staff left you a message that the stop signs at Marchetta would be eliminated. And the fact that the stop sign at Hygeia and Leucadia Blvd. wasn't eliminated is just one more reason why I won't believe too often broken promises, especially when the engineered plans are so far off from the "cartoon sketches" provided by Peltz and Associates.
Many roundabouts later have signals added, so there is no guarantee that would not eventually happen here, either, just as you have no guarantee that motorists will not be forced to stop at MANDATED stops created when traffic is backing up during peak periods, and it becomes increasingly difficult to merge into the roundabouts; yielding would obviously then involve mandatory stops by those turning onto the highway from West of 101, just as motorists are forced to stop, during peak periods, before turning onto Leucadia Blvd from Hermes and Hyemettus. That's logical, despite your reliance on the word "mandatory stops" as in removing stop signs = removing mandatory stops. Stopping will still happen with roundabouts, so the excuse they are essential to help with traffic flow during peak periods is simply illogical.
Roundabouts on 101 would be used as developers' tools, Fred. Just as most of the L101MA Board of Directors who support roundabouts also were AGAINST Prop A. Think about it, Fred.
Not all 101 board members opposed Prop A, Lynn. Got any samples of high density next to roundabouts anywhere in the US since they were installed? Or are you speculating? Sometimes even developers want whats best for everyone.
DeleteFred, I don't need to dig up examples. I am not proposing that taxpayers spend 20 Million on 5 roundabouts and lane elimination that the vast majority of adjacent residents and local commuters don't need or want. Roundabouts are not necessary due to health and safety concerns, but would add to those concerns because of increases in cut through traffic on residential streets along the 101 corridor, and further slowing of already subpar response times.
DeleteI never said, and I'm very well aware that not all Directors of the L101MA Board opposed Prop A, but the majority did, Fred; the majority (only of the Board of Directors, not the majority of all members of L101MA) also supports roundabouts.
I found this at http://www.mikeontraffic.com/consulting/
"Mr. Traffic Engineer - What is Level of Service?
Traffic engineers grade the operation of an intersection as A, B, C, D, E, or F based on the amount of time each vehicle has to wait to go through the intersection during a particular hour. We use grades to give non-engineers a feel for how the intersection operates. We don't want to get hung up on fractions of seconds. Every jurisdiction I know of considers Level of Service (aka LOS) A, B, and C to be acceptable. Most jurisdictions in Minnesota considers LOS D to be acceptable, but LOS E and F are both unacceptable. Some places, like Los Angeles, consider LOS F ok depending on how bad it is (the seconds of delay calculated). You need to check with the jurisdictions who control the intersection. I have been burned a few times by "unique" standards different jurisdictions have in their policies or ordinances. Checking the local standards is now one of the first things I do on a new project.
For you technical types, the chart below shows the amount of Control Delay (in seconds) that makes up each category. These are defined in the Transportation Research Board's 2000 Highway Capacity Manual.
Level of Service Intersection with
Traffic Signal Intersection with
Stop Signs
A ≤10 sec ≤10 sec
B 10-20 sec 10-15 sec
C 20-35 sec 15-25 sec
D 35-55 sec 25-35 sec
E 55-80 sec 35-50 sec
F >80 sec ≥50 sec
Note - the chart is different for traffic signals and stop signs. This reflects people having more patience sitting at a traffic signal than a stop sign. To date, there are no Level of Service standards for roundabouts. Most traffic engineers fudge this by applying the delay table for stop signs to the amount of delay calculated by software programs such as VISSIM, Rodel, or Arcady. It is not an apples to apples comparison. Hopefully the next edition of the Highway Capacity Manual will address Level of Service at roundabouts."
A friend sent me this:
DeleteThis is from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_service
Modern Roundabouts
The 2000 HCM provides skeleton coverage of modern roundabouts, but does not define LOS: the measure of effectiveness is the quotient of the volume to the capacity. A modern roundabout in the United States is a roundabout in which traffic inside the circle always has priority. Entering traffic is controlled by a yield sign.
"It’s important to remember that level is service is measured by the amount of time waiting at a controlled intersection, either stop signs or traffic lights. It’s more difficult to do this at a roundabout because technically the traffic is supposed to be continually moving. In reality, when traffic gets heavy, vehicles have to stop. In Tijuana the busy roundabouts have stop signs or traffic lights, otherwise vehicles would gridlock. There are no level of service standards for uncontrolled intersections, such as a stop sign on a side street or a left turn lane, even though a driver might wait a long to start moving again.
No one has ever challenged the “fact” of lack of standards for roundabouts. Not even Tom Frank or anyone from the city. This almost guarantees it is true . . . As WC says, it makes sense that there are no standards and roundabout are being used to give favorable results in traffic studies."
Yep, traffic backs up everywhere when it's heavy. No getting around that. But when it backs up at stop lights and signs, it creates a huge unused space ahead of idle drivers for the duration of the stop.
DeleteRoundabouts could be better than stop lights. But the four one lane, three way intersection roundabouts are not being put in at intersections with all way stop signs or stop-lights.
Delete"Roundabouts could be better than stop lights."
DeleteCool!
"But the four one lane, three way intersection roundabouts are not being put in at intersections with all way stop signs or stop-lights."
Very true. Just one stop sign presently at each of those that inhibit right and left turns for every approach. However, when you look at the track record of 4 new stop lights installed in Solana Beach for their new Streetscape, 2 new stop lights in downtown Encinitas (at Pacific Station and Swami's Ped Crossing) and combine that with the desire of some to put yet more stop signs and stop lights here on N. 101 for various reasons, to me the latter looks inevitable without the current plan.
And I won't bring up the El Portal roundabout eliminating the 4 stops at Marcheta because we all know you find it unbelievable. Opps, did I just bring it up? Sorry!
Right, you brought it up again without verifying, in writing, that the stop signs at Marchetta would be eliminated, and without verifying that even if they WERE eliminated, people would not have to stop, to yield to heavy northbound/southbound traffic on 101.
DeleteOfficials at the City of Solana Beach, including, at the time, Dave Roberts, made a conscious choice, supported by citizens concerned about cut through traffic and yes, slower emergency response times, NOT to install roundabouts. I think their streetscape is excellent, and they were wise to underground the train tracks.
Del Mar citizens voted AGAINST unwanted roundabouts, there. So did the citizens of Cotati. I hope you would support Encinitas citizens also being able to vote on this issue, Fred, as you did when you supported Prop A.
The stop signal adjacent to the pedestrian/bicycle underpass near Swami's was also inevitable. You have also failed to guarantee that stop signals would not be installed at the roundabouts at some future date, as has happened in many localities where roundabouts caused gridlock, as I've described.
So, no, no one can guarantee how many ACTUAL stops will be eliminated by roundabouts, because people will many times, most times during peak traffic periods, HAVE TO STOP ANYWAY, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF STOP SIGNS, to turn onto the highway, from points west. You can't count people having to stop turning onto the highway from points east, because, again, these are only three-way intersections, due to the RR tracks.
No one can guarantee, in writing, that there are engineered plans to eliminate the stop signs at Marchetta and 101. No one can guarantee that the canopy would not be further negatively impacted because the median would have to be narrowed and/or moved. No one can guarantee that traffic signals, or stop signs wouldn't eventually be added to dysfunctional roundabouts as has happened elsewhere.
All I can guarantee is that the safety record of the last three years regarding collisions at our intersections, and those of similar intersections in California does not justify stop signs or traffic lights, or roundabouts at the three way intersections for which the 101 Streetscape plan is being pushed by self-interested directors of the L101MA.
Property owners who expect to be able to charge higher lease amounts, or to develop properties worth more because traffic congestion "won't count," or perhaps, to eventually gain more business or a few more parking spaces, don't want to pay a property tax special assessment. They seem to expect beleaguered taxpayers to pick up the $20 Million plus costs for an unwanted "pie in the sky" plan that is constantly being pushed on resistant adjacent residents and unsuspecting local commuters.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"...even if they WERE eliminated, people would not have to stop, to yield to heavy northbound/southbound traffic on 101."
DeleteWell, no one has to stop at a stop sign if they don't want to. Still a good idea.
"Del Mar citizens voted AGAINST unwanted roundabouts,"
Right you are. I drove home from there yesterday aroun 4 pm. 10 stops. But half way through them I counted how many times I had to brake. 50 times, no lie. And you want to experience a cut through traffic nightmare, go to Del Mar. A guy who comes in my shop used to have to drive that route every day and made a practice of cutting through the neighborhood. He even encountered the SAME people doing the SAME thing. A vote would be a good thing for a city to do if there was a good argument against roundabouts. But the foundations of the arguments I hear against our roundabouts are baseless.
For examples:
* "Because they are "choke points" they'll create gridlock and more cut through traffic." False. They remove choke points aiding circulation - and that's the whole idea.
* "They allow developers to create high density" False. Not only did Prop A pass, no one will come forward with examples of this "high denstiy trick".
* "The U.S. Dept of Transportation says roundabouts shouldn't be adjacent to railroads." False. The logical recommendation is that they do not INTERSECT with railroads. None of ours do.
* "They'll reduce response times for emergency vehicles." False. The Encinitas Fire Dept. disagrees.
Also, bike lanes provide a wide birth for everyone to pull over during sirens.
* "Merging from 2 lanes to 1 lane will create gridlock. Our other roundabouts that work well on Leucadia Blvd AND Santa Fe Dr. do not have two lanes that merge into one before the roundabouts". 66% FALSE. Westbound traffic on both of those streets merge from 2 to 1 lane at Hymettus AND Devonshire. Only the Hermes roundabout does not.
* "The businesses on 101 aren't worth the improvements" The businesses, the residents and the vistors ALL benefit from the safety, beauty and convenience that all of Streetscape's facets bring and are ALL long overdue these improvements.
As I said before, I have no intention of getting it "in writing" from the city that the Marcheta St. stops on 101 will be removed. Their word on this is good enough from me but not you - even if it were in writing. So why should I bother? It's clear their phone message to me regarding this isn't good enough for you either.
Yes, Solana Beach's Streetscape is beautiful and we both appreciate the benefits of them lowering the tracks. But adding all their new stop lights exacerbates traffic congestion, and MORE stop lights/signs would undoubtedly happen here if not for roundabouts on the way.
Like you, I dread any live tree being removed. But the ones that will be are less than 10# of existing trees and are all accounted for on Streetscape "cartoon drawings", but 900 new ones are on their way. I know they're small (and WAY too expensive btw), but complainers of the ones placed in the Roadside Park only a few years back should go see them now and try to bitch. They're awesome.
Our city's other roundabouts didn't have to go to a public vote and they work great. This is a very small cause you're spearheading Lynn and you won't get much support from people who will do their homework. Your time is better spent on real things that harm Encinitas IMHO. But we do agree the further bikes are away from cars the better, and the rail trail would be ideal. So there.
"To date, there are no Level of Service standards for roundabouts."
DeleteWhy not? So this gentleman can skew his story. Pretty easy to add up the time 9000 cars HAVE to stop for 1 minute each day on N. 101 - and THAT'S conservative and involves La Costa Ave., 4 side streets and 4 stops at Marcheta St.
Well DEMA is getting a $250,000 park at the south end of 101 next to Marco's office. When will we have a council person stand up to DEMA and tell them no?? Why does DEMA get everything it wants while streets go unrepaired, sidewalks are lacking throughout the city, there is no safe walkway under the I-5 overpass and Enc Blvd. Flowers go unwatered etc, but DEMA gets everything it wants....
ReplyDelete$$$$$ is changing hands...think Dody's rumored investments in development on main street...and the developers of these project and whose campaigns they fund.
DeleteOUT!!!!
ReplyDeleteRude.
ReplyDeleteLow blow from a low-life.
ReplyDeleteRound abouts are great. They work well on santa Fe and leucadia blvd now. Every once in a while you get someone that panics and doesn't know how to use them. They are so stupid they probably shouldn't be driving anyway. Put in a lot of round abouts.
ReplyDelete..the Shark
Comments have been deleted. Must have been the NSA.
ReplyDeleteWhat $250,000 park 6:29? I am on the Parks and Rec. Commission and I would be interested in knowing about this, since this is the first I have heard about it. I see them tearing up the street, but exactly where will the Park be put? Thanks. I will also ask Parks and Rec. Dept.
ReplyDeleteIt's been referred to by Dody Crawford as a pocket park.
DeleteOk dr. Lorri, why are the plants and flowers in ALL the center medians in town dying. Why doesn't the city water the flowers at the park in Leucadia ?? Answers, the public wants answers.
why does not the City water any of the plants on Leucadia Blvd. Have you seen how many plants, staff has killed on that street in the last 4 years?
DeleteWhat a waste of life and tax payers money.
9:28 AM
ReplyDeleteThe triangle and the parking spaces will be removed and replaced with grass. More parking spaces along 101 will be removed for the new bus stop. The city is eliminating 10 very needed parking spaces by the beach for this beautification project. Wonder why the Coastal Commission didn't object to the loss.
Did staff ask the Coastal Commission? Or do they only do that for things they don't like, like Prop A?
DeleteWCV
That is a great question WCV. I heard the planner Diane state that the fact that they don't ask persmission from the CCC for various issue may be illegal--but if it is, everyone else is doing it too. It makes it even more pathetic that they said that the CCC objected to Prop A when according to Diane, they leave them in the dark intentionally when there are issues that they have a right to weigh in on.
DeleteCompetition abounds. Thursday night is a 5 tequila dinner at the lumberyard tavern. Bite of food, shot of tequila; another bite of food, another shot of tequila. Wow! Encinitas has become soooo vibrant.
ReplyDelete10:30- I am leaving for a short vacation right now, but I will ask when I return on Monday. Also, you can email the Parks and Rec. dept. to ask. Right now you have more info than I have. But, I promise I won't let this die. I, too, want to know, as it was never run by the Parks and Rec. Commission.
ReplyDeleteFrom John Frenken, Parks Supervisor/
ReplyDeleteLorri
No park is being installed at K and 101. The work is installing pop outs on K street and relocating the bus stop. There will be plantings and walk ways, but it is not a park, but pop outs like we have at other intersections on 101.
John Frenken
Park & Beach Superintendent
City manager and his cabinet say it is a park in the Council agenda report item #5 for July 17, 2013.
DeleteAt this time, the portion of the second-phase
project at K Street is proposed to be constructed. The Planning and Building Department has determined that the project is consistent with the permitted concepts for the second phase of the Downtown Streetscape Project.
This project proposes to replace the isolated island area with a landscaped area and new sidewalks. In addition to providing upgraded ADA-compliant pedestrian facilities and a safer bus stop that will facilitate the use of public transportation, the K Street park will
aesthetically enhance this portion of Highway 101, which is designated in the General Plan as a scenic highway/ visual corridor viewshed.
Maybe I need new glasses - sure it's not the hearing aid - maybe I just need more vodka in my martini - but I sure as heck don't see the word "park" in that section you quoted. Other than the aforementioned, what am I missing?!?!
Delete- The Sculpin
park - third line from the bottom.
Deleteyup! Just as I thought - more vodka!
Delete- Jhe Skuhhhlpahn
Do you want a drumroll, Sculpin.
DeleteNo - but I wouldn't say no to a rainbow roll from Sakura Bana!
Delete- The Sculpin
The city manager and his cabinet agendized it as a "Park" for political reasons. You see Vina knows the truth that the public knows his performance has been horrible- He and the council are raising fees on residents, charging more for youth sports, more for fire pits, increasing water rates, increasing debt- Vina calls it a park so later he and his 135K spin Doctor can allow Barth and Gaspar- two of a kind- the high density queens, to say "look, we built a new city park". Watch for it.
DeleteAlso, on the Consent Calendar is a consultant to study how/whether to raise sewer fees. Sewer and water, property based fees are allowed to be raised by Prop 218, without a public vote.
DeleteWe just had a water rate fee increase through the City/SDWD, 9% a year for three years. That will be about a 30% increase, with compounded interest, FAR higher than cost of living and inflation indexes in private sector. Get your "hard copy" letters of protest in by Wednesday, but as over 50% of the registered voters won't be doing so, the increase will go through. SDG&E is also raising its fees by 9%. What a coincidence. . . At least "private" utilities, such as phone and power must give "baseline" discounts.
People using less water means SDWD must raise its rates more to cover costs of its rapidly deteriorating delivery service, when there is less demand.
I was made to feel welcome at the subcommittee meetings, "facilitated" by a consultant similar to the one hired to raise sanitation (sewer) rates; but nothing I asked or said could make a difference. The City has used SDWD as another cash cow, robing us ratepayers of our historical headquarters, and grounds, without market value compensation, without going through the process of imminent domain, which could have insured fair market value.
SDWD ratepayers were never FAIRLY compensated for our water district real property, including the structures. We should be on title at the Mossy Property Public Works Yard, but sleight of hand was used to use the property under the City's "title" as an imaginary "lease revenue stream" source, as so-called "collateral." Lawyers, brokers make out; the little guy, the common ratepayer, gets cheated. We would have had $4.4 Million more in SDWD reserves, but for the bogus Mossy Property deal. The ocean view land is now a parking lot, which is nice for the library, but completely unfair when SDWD is not on title for the public works yard which replaced the one SDWD ratepayers owned, outright, and leased to the City, before.
With respect to "newcomers" such as Superintendent Tim Baird, in Encinitas since 2009 and Gus Vina, since 2011, negotiating over public land, for short term profit, If EUSD, which includes Carlsbad schools, won't cooperate on a realistic price for donated land, then the City could take it for a community arts and learning center by imminent domain, paying the lower of the appraisal prices . . . Also, since the City Manager and Lisa Shaffer have publicly shared those appraisal numbers of $3.5 Million and $7 Million, they should be included in the Agenda Report for 10B for this coming Wednesday night, August 21's CC Meeting.
With respect to the sewer division increasing fees, Leucadia Sanitation District has a fixed rate, which probably won't go above that which it was before raised to: $250 per sewer line, per year, whereas it's over twice that per year for the Encinitas Sanitation Division, and three times as much for the Cardiff Sanitation Division, on average, already.
A raise in fees for SDWD was inevitable, but with all due respect, at least Barth and Bond, in their previous subcommittee kept the rate of yearly increase down to a lower level, at the bottom tier, and for a few more years. There should have been NO INCREASE on water meter fees, which is unrelated to usage. The meter rate is plenty high, already.
It's true, all the fees will go up, because now the City fears they won't see the same rate of increase in property tax and sales tax fees, when there is less high density development, thanks to Prop A.
I have been informed that "As of last year Encinitas Union served about 5600 students, of that number about 51% of the students resided in Encinitas, 48% resided in Carlsbad and 1% on district transfers from other areas."
DeletePacific View was donated for our local community, not for Carlsbad. I support public school children in all cities, but not newbie administrators who would "compromise," by stripping us of cash when we try to preserve, maintain and enhance our precious public assets.
1:51: It's not called Sakura Bana any more. Hasn't been for YEARS. Do you really live here, Sculpin?
Delete10:52 Sounds like you've lived here at least for YEARS!. I've been here since the 70's. Actually, my first foray into Leucadia was the tree houses off Hygiea (I think?) maybe Hymettus?. Besides, to me it will always be Sakura Bana. I dislike the new name so much I won't remember it. And yes, I was there last week. I particularly enjoy the spanish mackeral and I love the cole slaw.
DeleteWhat else makes you think I don't live here?
- The Sculpin
My bad. I wuz wrong. Wrong sushi place. Save your whips for Manhattan.
DeleteOh....well them I'm sorry too. No worries!
Delete-the sculpin
Why are all the trees and plants dying along leucadia blvd?
ReplyDeleteWho is responsible?
Will be happy to check that when I get back in town.
ReplyDeleteThx!!!!
ReplyDeleteSee the Coast News article - Work begins on K Street Landscaping ---
ReplyDelete"Four parking spaces will be eliminated to make room for the landscaped area. Further, putting in the new bus stop calls for the removal of six more spaces to meet transit requirements."
UN Agenda 21- take away our parking, raise parking fees, install parking meters, mandate stack and pack housing, heard and control quality of life. Hey, everybody, the government wants us to load our bikes on busses, just like old and current third world countries-see, we can all ride our bikes down to Marco 'The I'll do anything for cash lawyer" and load our bikes onto busses' isn't it cool kids, so sustainable! Freedom of movement? Liberty? ahhh, I don't think so.
DeleteDefinately leery of UNA-21 here. Especially after hearing Rosa Koire go on and on about it. One part especially rang true. "And what do you get? Empty commercial below and bankrupt condos on top" "They don't want parking spot, they want everyone on bikes." "They don't want people living in the country, but move to the city. You'll hear catch phrases from Agenda 21 like "Sustainable, Green, Stakeholders, Consensus". But what was notable is that she's a dyed in the wool liberal on the same page with this issue in a room full of Tea Party folk. Worth checking out. I think.
DeleteWithout passing judgment on Rosa Koire's views (haven't read them, never heard of her until Fred mentioned her), here is a link.
DeleteBut it does make you wonder why the Encinitas City Council sends our local tax money to the UN's "smart growth" lobbyist arm ICLEI.
WCV
park - third line from the bottom.
ReplyDeleteThe K street project is part of the down town street scape plan approved 10 years
ReplyDeleteAgo by a different council.You people should wake up ,I think the party's over our
is this another tale from the land of LYNN.You should be pissed that it's taken this
long to complete.
Yes, the Proj K was brought up long ago at the city. Always sounded like a cool project to me, but I thought at the time it would just be the pie area and not extended to remove 10 parking spots. That's not a good thing. They should stick with Plan A.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThe OCD continues.
DeleteJerome honey, that you?
DeleteWC,
ReplyDeleteSince you clearly support the ranting of Lynn by keeping her slander and deleting other posts, why not just let Lynn author posts like you and KC.
Maybe you can change the name of the blog to "KLCC rules!!!!!"?
Just wondering why the protection for someone posting long winded ill intent none-sense with no edits?
Inquiring minds what to know?
Attack her arguments, not her person.
DeleteWCV
6:01 I find your posts uninformative. DO you have opposing facts to support your position or only name calling? See you want us to believe that Leucadia is 'crappy' yet we all know it is thriving and people want to move and live here for what it is today.
DeleteInquiring minds want to know, do you have facts or only name calling? Thank you.
Have you visited the north end of 101?? Thriving it is not. Crappy it is. So crappy that the welcome to Leucadia sign looks crappy. Where are the flowers to welcome visitors?? Travelers?? Transients??
DeleteYour delusional thinking continues to degrade our community, go away.
What's your definition of "thriving"? Crowded sidewalks? Bars with people spilling out onto the sidewalk? Are the businesses on the north end complaining?
DeleteI can't safely walk to the north end of 101 so I wouldn't know about the businesses there. It's a death trap.
Delete8:33 if what you say is true, that Leucadia is being "degraded" why is it new businesses are opening up like the wine bar and the new restaurant? Why are so many people trying to buy in Leucadia if it is so bad? Is it possible the only people who are unhappy are developers seeking upzoning handouts and political operatives trying to discredit those shining lights on city council malfeasance? If Leucadia is degraded why is it at the top of everyone's place to live? Please explain?
DeleteThe wine bar is not at the north end of 101. An idiot posting from the idiot KLCC peanut gallery.
Delete1:41 no body said the wine bar was on the north 101, who are you ranting about now? are you truly so blind in your pursuit of profits that you don't bother to actually read the post? are you that fanatical and extreme you call everyone krappy? show me where someone wrote the wine bar is referenced as being on north 101? didn1t think so. Just saying
DeletePerhaps because Lynn is actually liked and respected by the majority in Encinitas.
ReplyDeleteI don't know anyone, outside of developers and City staff who likes Gus Vina more than Lynn.
DeleteSo she is the enemy of those who want to degrade our city and stick it to the taxpayer.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteEnough already with the outing of personal information. 8:38, you have anything of intelligence to contribute here? If not, no one's interested in your comments that are not substitutes for viable arguments.
DeleteI like Gus.
DeleteI have never heard Lynn say anything positive. I am sure she has. Mostly she offers negativity, accuses, lambasts, argues, rants and offers way too much uninformed, misguided misinformation.
I am not attacking her personally, just what she offers and how she offers.
"Liked and respected by the majority of Encinitas..."
Is impossible to believe.
Agreed...
DeleteHer thoughts and comments are ridiculous.
I think she has about 3 supporters and a whole lot of people that are upset she wastes so much tax payers money with her antics...
WC why don't you just make everyone log in like the LB does. It will kill your blog but JP doesn't seem to mind so why should you??
ReplyDeleteThank you WC for keeping the forum open.
DeleteThe forum is open as long as the facts are what the holder of the blog wants them to be. A comment on someone weighing more than another person was deleted yet WCV has ripped a former firefights as grossly obese. So you see, he who makes the rules enforces those they agree with and ignores those they don't.
DeleteMy prediction is this blog will become meaningless as more and more posting are deleted for stating a simple truth, whatever that truth may be.
Perhaps WC will return to the stupid photos of the Cardiff Kook, those comments were never deleted. Perhaps WC should look into the shakedown that goes on for those that want to use a photo of the kook for commercial purposes. While its s public statue it's photo rights are in private hands.
I understood that the "Kook", "Magic Carpet Ride"
Deleteartwork was commissioned by the Cardiff Botanical Society, a Cardiff Chamber committee. The art was donated to the City and any reproduction rights belong to the artist and the association that commissioned the art. I haven't heard of any "shakedowns", Just because the art is displayed publicly does not mean that anyone can copy and personally profit from a piece of art that they have no right to reproduce.
What's the problem?
Your objectivity is so clouded, you are not an accurate judge of what "simple truth" may be.
DeleteHate speech can be libelous, or demonstrate a pattern of harassment, through bullying; anonymous posts CAN be tracked. WCV is wise, and kind to remove such posts.
Despite threats and self-interested dire predictions, this blog is in no danger of "dying."
2:35,
DeleteTrue, but the Kook is only interesting or famous because of the decoration done by unknown guerrilla artists. That's what sells the Kook calendars and other merchandise.
The Cardiff group just saw dollar signs and called the lawyers to get a private payday out of this very public art.
So, WC, are you saying that anyone can profit from any copyrighted art they want to?
DeleteYea all those horrible people who spent years raising money and working with the artist to give the art to the community. Do you feel you have the right to just use copyrighted material for your personal monetary gain when ever you want?
And no, many people like the art when it is not altered. The calendar is very cool and a lot of the noteworthy alterations have been archived by Fred and the calendar. Now, mostly, people are just putting personal Bday notices and the like.
I like the statue, respect the community efforts of those that created it and like Carperteria Park that is a community asset that is mainly funded by volunteers and Cardiff Chamber. The C101 website says that any moneys collected will go to maintain and enhance the park for the community.
Lynn-
DeleteWhat is this going after Lynn personally? Her comments have hit a nerve (such as the truth) on someone who doesn't want to discuss the documented facts.
ReplyDeleteI did my best to encourage and allow more public comment with respect to the recent evaluations of Gus Vina and Glenn Sabine. I definitely don't feel either deserved to be rated as excellent.
ReplyDeleteI am going back to view Teresa's report from closed session on the evaluations on July 10. I thought she only stated that Gus Vina received an excellent, but the minutes state that both Vina and Sabine did.
Also, Mayor Barth reported out of the July 10 closed session, that their contracts would be renewed without change. It is illegal according to the Brown Act to discuss compensation, including contract renewal of executive officers (non-represented; represented employees can have labor negotiations through closed sessions) in a special meeting closed session.
I previously did a public info request asking for any documents or evidence as to why Council could not solicit public input re the performance of the City Manager and the City Attorney, as was originally planned in the initial subcommittee meeting with Lisa Shaffer and Kristin Gaspar. No such documents were provided, although I did listen to the second subcommittee meeting, which I missed, as it was not clearly calendared, and I didn't know about its scheduling until after the fact.
The City Attorney and City Manager have a "Constitutional right of privacy" according to Jace Schwarm, of their confidential personnel records, but I see no reason why public input and feedback cannot be solicited and kept as public documents related to, but NOT a part of confidential personnel records.
I just did check the webcast. Mayor Barth said that Council consensus was that the City Manager is doing an excellent job, and that Council "continues to support the City Attorney. This was at approximately 14 minutes into the webcast. Apparently, the meeting started late. She also stated there would be "no change" to the employment agreement. That closed session decision is a violation of the Brown Act, because compensation was considered in a Special Session, which is disallowed as of January 1, 2012, as the City has been repeatedly informed.
DeleteIMHO...
ReplyDeleteBoth Lynn and Sad Sack are bad for Encinitas.
Council should know better.
Lynn does not work for the COE; Gus does, at considerable expense to the taxpayers. Council is definitely failing residents in their endorsement of him and "excellent" review.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteFY13/14 8.5% FY14/15 8.5% FY15/16 6.5% FY16/17 1.5% FY17/18 1.5% Compounded 5- Year Increase 29.2%
The rate increase for SDWD is 8.5% (not 9%, sorry) for the next two years. After that, lower rates of increase are projected for Fiscal Years 16/17 and 17/18, resulting in an "estimate" of 29.2% increase for a five year period.
To me, it seems the only way to lower operating expenses, other than finding more efficiencies, would be to reduce compensation, beginning with salaries of executive officers making over $100,000 per year, by 20%.
I thought that having a Bier Garden within stumbling distance was a huge marketing tool for the Pacific Station, as was the conveniently located railroad tracks.
ReplyDeleteGuess Council members Gaspar and Kranz think so too.
Delete