Excerpts from NPR (listen to the whole thing).
...Jeremy Gold is an actuary and economist. We asked him for an explanation of all of this and why does the think that the math all these years has been wrong. He joined us from our bureau in New York, and I asked him how actuaries go about estimating how much money is needed to fund these plans.
JEREMY GOLD: When they do make these projections, they begin by looking at each retiree one at a time and saying what might this retiree be entitled to over the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years? Those entitlements are then summed across all the retirees so that we have the total future entitlements year by year by year. And at that point, pretty much all actuaries agree. Then next step, however, is where actuaries do not always agree. And that is what discount rate should be applied to those future promises?
In the case of CalPERS, the actuaries did agree that THEIR assumptions were to high. The governing board did not change the calculations because it would have made the city's books look worse and/or suggested pension contributions go up.
STAMBERG: What does a discount rate mean? What does that mean?
GOLD: Suppose I owe you a dollar next year? How much should you and I agree to settle that dollar for this year? Well, if the discount rate is 2 percent, we'll settle for 98 cents. But when we go out multiple years, we get somewhat more complicated calculation but the idea is still the same. If the discount rate is relatively high, then the value today is relatively low. If the discount rate is low, then the value today is high.
STAMBERG: You think that's too optimistic a way to go about it. So, how would you calculate?
GOLD: Well, it's not that I think it's too optimistic so much as where in the spectrum of the low-to-high interest rates we place ourselves. Now, the actuaries, for the most part, in public plans, including Detroit, have, for the last 15 years or so been using an 8 percent discount rate. When they started doing that, interest rates on bonds were more or less in that range. Nowadays, Treasury bonds average about a 3 percent return.
UHM... 3% versus 8%. Investments beyond T-Bonds come with more risk. Who should carry the risk when going beyond a highly secure treasury bond (lets ignore global economics for the moment)? Or, more importantly, the general risk of planning for the optimistic outcome and not preparing for the worst?
STAMBERG: So, if this is correct, does it mean that even though cities that have contributed over the years the amounts that are required, they're falling behind anyway?
GOLD: That is my opinion, yes. That some of the best states and cities in terms of making the payments that are required, even those have not been funding adequately in light of the low interest rates prevailing in today's markets.
The pension funds are not conservatively funded and if optimistic economic predictions fail to materialize there won't be enough in the pension pot at the end of the day. Relying on optimism to protect us is not being responsible.
____________________________________
What should we do? Pay as we go and not pass on debt to our kids. We also want to be able make good on pension promises made today, to the junior city staff.
1. Fund the pension system using conservative estimates.
2. Get skin in the game for the $100K pensioners and senior management. These folk sell the financial schemes actively or passively to their councils (making room for pay and benefit increases). Doing that would bring the current approach to screeching halt. Let's let the city's big earners present plans to truly maintain sustainable budgets.
Senior management are paid the big bucks for their financial acumen. Many of them are close to retirement and have great financial incentive for painting a financial picture for their council that indicates there is plenty of room for increasing (or maintaining) their current high compensation and hiring more staff.
Bring the current approach to a screeching halt. Stop letting Barth's "we're fine, we'll get there" fantasy run this town into the ground.
ReplyDeleteI feel that a good start would be for all the City's "Executive Management," to take an across the board 20% pay reduction, in particular for those making in excess of $100,000 per year. I don't feel our current Council has the strength and determination to do this. People would vote for a mayor who proposed it!
ReplyDeleteBesides the overly optimistic rate of returns on investments is the overly optimistic Triple A Rating by Standard & Poors. Gus Vina was bragging about this at last Wednesday night's Olivenhain Town Council Meeting. Those ratings have been questioned, because the "monitors" are paid by the industries they are monitoring. They were giving Triple A Ratings to bundled derivatives, which failed, and led to the world economic meltdown in 2008. When S&P has been taken to court for its prejudiced, non factual ratings, they are protected by their First Amendment Rights. They can "report" badly, without having to pay the consequences as many individual investors did when the Stock Market and housing bubbles burst. "Projected" earnings on investment funds set at 7.75 or even 7% is hugely "optimistic," so much so that it seems a calculated fabrication designed to put us and future generations in catastrophic debt.
Again and again I heard Jerome Stocks, and now Gus Vina bragging, being so proud of the City's Triple A Rating. How long will people pin their hopes on these artificially high rating systems, designed to increase borrowing, increase long term debt?
When Gus Vina raided some 15 funded and fully funded capital improvement projects of $7M dollars to start the Hall Park he not only took money away from important city infrastructure projects he also then went another $8 million in debt by doing a bond offering.
ReplyDeleteVina's Bond offering required the city to put the deed for the Public Works Yard up for collateral. At the meeting this year to review this increased debt service on the back of taxpayers there was included in the staff report that Encinitas is moving into high risk territory on securing debt. Typically bond investors look at city solvency and ability to pay back debt on a scale of 5-10, 5 being best, 10 being worst.
The new increased debt Vina drove moved Encinitas from a respectable number near 6 to one closer to 8- dangerous territory.
The city council again blindly followed big free spending Vina's failed leadership. (It's worthwhile to note that Vina was dumped from Sacramento getting a vote of no confidence as reported in the papers after he apparently gave out pay raises to his cabinet while taxpayers were some $40 million in debt)
Where is the money to fix our roads, maintain our current parks and fix our sewers?
Three of Vina's cabinet members are making over $160,000 and one gets over $170,000. Not bad for new hires. That doesn't include the new fire chief salary.
ReplyDelete12:04
ReplyDeleteBarth has been mayor 9 months and yet you think she is the problem. You are a kook
Barth and the other 4 need to be voted out of office, elect Cameron and Holt
DeleteWho is Holt? Did you mean Holtz? I always liked him. Do you recall when Cameron was on the Council. She hit one staff member, and wanted all lights in the City to be a certain color, as she hated red. Are you sure this is the person you would want?
DeleteI won't believe innuendo and hearsay posted to defame someone, like SC, without any factual backup, without any actual verification, such as a newspaper link.
DeleteYou are just spreading rumors. Are you a paid operative, and if so, who pays you? is it we, the taxpayers, ratepayers?
Like u hold any say or truth in your words..... Pffffff.
DeleteLynn-you don't have to tale amy word for it, I am sure it is on either the City website, or on Google. I am not exactly sure when the City website was put up, but regarding Sheila I saw, with my own eyes, some of the things she did when she was councilwoman. However, you don't have to take my word for it. You are awesome at getting information, so please find out for yourself. I am actually a friend of yours, and hopefully once you find out, you will know I am not lying about Sheila.
DeleteI am not going to take an "anonymous" commentator's word, in particular an "anonymous friend," lol. A friend would simply tell me, or ask me, personally.
DeleteI am not going to try to dig up dirt on any of my friends, either. I have no desire to search the City's website or to Google to attempt to verify empty allegations and what I see to be character attacks.
I strongly support personal privacy and GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY. Everyone has a reason he or she is active in the City. We all have "personal agendas." However, government employees, or public officers, including elected officials, have a duty to uphold the public trust. Govt. transparency is mandated by government code because, when enforced, it helps to insure honesty and accountability.
Government employees have a duty to serve the public, not to use the taxpayers, rate payers and fee payers as "cash cows," attempting to discredit and squelch any who might question the authority of a "machine" that is running, out of control.
Barth has been in office 7 years, under her leadership city debt has increased, fees to residents have increased, services to resident have decreased and city employees are getting paid more with bigger pension, dump Barth and Gaspar
DeleteI was surprised that Vina bragged about the city's Triple A bond rating. Bond, Dalager, and Stocks only ever bragged about a Double A+ rating. It's my understanding than a city has to be carrying no debt or very little to get a Triple A rating.
ReplyDeleteHow did we go from Double A+ to Triple A after borrowing more money with only small increases in city revenues. It seems Vina is stretching the truth a bit.
And why is Mayor Barth saying that the citizens must find a way to finance the purchase of the Pacific View property. There is a citizens' meeting tonight at the library at 6 pm to search for ways to raise money. Could it be that Vina has taken us to the financial edge?
Vina can only do it with a willing Council. We all need to put pressure where it counts, as he is appointed, while they are elected.
ReplyDeletesell the hall park to costco and buy pacific view school.
ReplyDeleteYou're just trying to start fires of hyperbole, manipulate people with fear. The Hall Property Park is bonded, is used as collateral on lease revenue bonds. It cannot and will not be sold to Costco.
DeleteSome of it should have sold to pay for the improvements.
DeleteWe don't want Costco or the regional sports park. Put houses, expensive houses, on the hall property. Use that money to purchase pacific view. We would also be generating more property tax dollars.
ReplyDeleteHeck put houses on both properties for the tax money. Of course that wouldn't fit Mayor Barth's twisted view of our city so it won't happen. She would like five story, 500 square foot condos, at pacific view. That way we would have more people living next to the communter rail and the world would be perfect.
DUMP BARTH
-the Shark
Amazing.....9 comments and none pertain to the original story.......
ReplyDelete- The Sculpin
Sculpin- they all tie into the story, city manager Vina, Mayor Barth, the Mayor's before her, every last one of them has bled taxpayers dry, there is no money to repair roads, maintain parks, or buy Pacific View- but there is money for pensions like Muir's 170K a year, and money for raises like the new Fire Chief going to 210K.....................you are the one choosing to look the other way, not the rest of us.
DeleteI think that the whole approach that the public must fund the purchase of Pacific View is an attempt to take our eyes off of Council and Vina and keep us busy with a new project. Won't work! The reason that we don't have funds for this project that the public wants is because we are paying for services that we DON'T want and staff who work against us.
DeleteThat one would pay more toward one's own government benefits, if that government employee makes more seems only fair, and logical. Unfortunately what our City has done is to increase the rank and file fire dept. pay and the City Manager's pay, by the amount extra they had to pay into their own benefits. So they all got another raise when they had to "kick in." Prior to last year, the fire dept. employees were paying NOTHING into their health benefits. That has changed, but I'm uncertain if that's an across the board" change, or only for new hires?
DeleteWith respect to finding a way to fund Pacific View, I feel that people who are receiving huge pensions, or several government pensions, should set a good example by being visual contributors to some sort of endowment or foundation set up for a Community Art Center at Pacific View, refurbishing the existing buildings, and leasing to own from EUSD.
One good idea brought up at Monday night's meeting re financing PV was that we should get more involved in EUSD Board Meetings. With the exception of Mo Muir, who along with Bob Nanninga has consistently supported saving Pacific View from overdevelopment through rezoning, the rest of the trustees should be voted out of office, when they come up for re-election.
Again, with the exception of Maureen Muir, I won't be voting for EUSD incumbents. They didn't keep their campaign promises, just as many feel our "new council majority" have not kept theirs.
Anyone can change his or her mind, but we can also change our minds about supporting our elected officials' poor decisions.
How much will Maureen Muir 's pension be ??? Answer too much .
DeleteSculp, the first two did...anyway, what say you?
ReplyDeleteNot sure. It's really tricky dealing with liabilities that are paid so far out. First, it's insane to fully fund pension liabilities. It's equally insane to not fund them at all! I do like the idea that the more you make, the more you're required to participate in the contributions. As for using conservative estimates (higher discount rates) that hurts the contributors in down markets but then they have less to catch up to in up markets. Another drawback to conservative estimates in down markets is that if you get it wrong, your plan gets way overfunded in an up market! Based on where the markets are going right now, I'm not so sure we have as huge a problem as some think it is. However, I don't know what he average age of the participants is either. If they're all close to retirment, then maybe it is as bad as they say. Is the actuararila report somewhere on the website or in Lynn's file drawer? All that said, I wouldn't say no to ditching the defined contribution plan, but so few people are finacially literate enough to manage their own 401(k) it ends up in a huge transfer of risk. You think we have a pension mess on our hands now, wait untill everyone realizes they don't have anything left in their 401(k)'s!
Delete- The Sculpin
My bad. I meant defined benefit plan.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteNo one cares what you think.... thats an oxymoron in itself.
DeleteWhat is Mo Muirs pension when she retires?? Does she sign her name like her husband, like a teenage girl??
DeleteWhy bring someone's wife into the argument? Because you are so envious of what Muir makes? Because you are unemployed?
DeleteNothing of substance, no true solution to any of the City's problems will ever be achieved on this site, which is like a cross between One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest meets Mean Girls: with a touch of The People Who Live Under The Stairs.
When is Lynn going to become a 5150?
I don't think that 'envy' is what we are feeling. We feel cheated that we are forced to pay for pensions that a former council gave them for political personal and political gain. Nobody should get a 30% raise in a single year, let alone several hundred people.
DeleteAll underfunded/fiscal danger roads lead to Vina and the hypnotized Council, so these topics tend to blend.
ReplyDeleteWhat are you people smoking,get out of that smoke filled room come to a council
ReplyDeleteMeeting get of your fat ass. Is that enough Dumb and dumber it must be in the water in leucadia
The new fire chief receives over $200k in salary? How big is the fire staff in Encinitas? If we lived in the Sierra foothills, we might need a fire department as large. As it is, it is one tremendous pork barrel of over-paid Von's shoppers. Cut their salaries 20% as previously suggested; they can quit if they don't like it and then rehire at half the present salaries - that line would stretch around the block for these cush jobs.
ReplyDeleteCity Council failed the taxpayers by supporting Sad Sac's "strategic" planning debacle.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing strategic about it is it get his lame ass closer to retirement.
He sunk Stocken, he sunk Sacramento, and he is sinking Encinitas.
What does our Council say?--- Great Job Sad Sac!
Next!!!!
Please provide proof — for example, links to newspaper articles — that Vina sank Stockton and Sacramento.
DeleteWould you hire a captain for your ship whose only prior experience was on the Exxon Valdez and the Titanic?
DeleteNo need.... Sad Sac was the Finance Director/ Cabinet member of Stockton and Sacramento. His poor financial planning decisions is inherent by looking at the financial demise of those Cities. He was their financial cabinet member. I think little man takes no ownership of any issue.
DeleteThe truth is inherent and simple to follow.
Too bad we don't have a smart Council or they'd cut this "Sad Sac" Planning fiasco and get down to real financial planning. The mission, values, and goals for the City have not changed in our entire existence as a City.
Sad Sac was just too ignorant to listen and learn them and now want to spend his twilight years in Government learning them, before retiring and leaving the next City Manager a huge bag of financial shit.
Sad Sac does not care about Encinitas. He will take his $220,000 per year retirement for his crappy performance all those years and retire in Solana Beach. Haaa Haaaa Haaaa Encinitas. Thats some City Council you have supporting such a tool.
The point about Vina: People commenting on this blog have accused him without providing proof that justifies the accusations. If he's responsible for financially sinking Sacramento and Stockton, furnish the links as proof.
DeleteWell you know, there is a way out of our troubles: http://www.news10.net/news/story.aspx?storyid=80581. "Vina said the taxation of medical marijuana to help close a $43 million budget gap is a distinct possibility and a step the city would take to "legitimatize" the business of marijuana sales."
ReplyDeleteNice thought, but Vina would have to push more product than Amsterdam to get Encinitas out of its huge pension and debt hole.
DeleteWCV
This man has no scruples. His end game is how to maximize his own job security by bringing in money any way possible to pay for entourage of staff to do his bidding, and to assure an ongoing cash flow for retirement benefits for himself and others. This city sounds more and more like a banana republic every day!
DeleteMarijuana distribution centers would be another nice way to revitalize our downtown, seeing as how we don’t currently have enough inebriated people there already.
Don’t get me wrong. I think that they have their place to serve those with serious medical conditions. However, I am worried that if the City gets involved, they will turn a blind eye to those who have other motives simply to enhance earning potential.
Hello 9:22 could you pleas site the city council meeting where Mr. Vina made the quote you list? Thank you
DeleteGo to the link I provided, the newspaper quotes him.
DeleteWow- I can't believe Vian said he wanted to sell weed to raise $ to pay the budget gap in Sacramento! This was probably after he voted to give his cabinet expensive pay raises and future increased pensions but before the city council gave Vina a vote of no confidence and told him not to let the door hit him on the way out!
DeleteI can see why Stocks and Gaspar hired this sorry piece of failed leadership, but why did Barth?
In Encinitas Vina raided 15 accounts of $7M- maybe he can go sell some weed to make the money back for taxpayers- thanks for the link, it is all true!
Wow- Sad Sacs solution is tax the vices- How original.... Not!
ReplyDeleteVegas already has this strategy... So far Sad Sac wants to increase tax and use of booze and marijuana. Whats next prostitution and gambling.
Considering over 60% of our revenue comes from residential property tax we need a Ctiy Manager that focuses on Quality of Life for existing residents and property!
Dump Sad Sac!!!
No Vina defender here, but commenters have condemned him for his official action in Sacramento and Stockton without providing proof. If there's documentary proof of his malfeasance, let's see it.
DeleteAgain- proof is he was the director of finance for both cities.... He was accountable for the financial health of those cities during his tenure.
DeleteThe responsibility is inherent with his position head.
You prove Sad Sac did anything to warn council or do something positive for those two cities....
If Vina had performed as poorly in those two cities as you allege, there would be coverage saying so in the local press, especially since Sacramento is the state capital and since Stockton declared bankruptcy. I've searched but haven't found any. That doesn't mean it's not there. So I'm asking the accuser to provide proof. The burden of proof is on the accuser.
DeleteSearch the word inherent.
DeleteThe financial Heath of a city is the primarily responsibility of the director of finance.
He failed in both cities and he is failing Encinitas.
Not my problem we have/had lame press....
Thank god we now have more informative blogs.
If we want a healthy city we need to dump Sad Sad. That's the bottom line.
3:37, You have demonstrated you have made baseless allegations. If you had documentary proof, you would show it.
DeleteBy your deeply flawed reasoning, if the city of Encinitas went belly-up, it would be solely Tim Nash's fault.
No one said "solely."
DeleteBut does a finance manager or director bear ZERO responsibility for a financial disaster resulting from decisions made on his watch?
At best, Vina was the ineffective first mate on the Titanic and the Exxon Valdez. He has ZERO experience in a well-run city. His entire career he has only worked in cities spending recklessly and piling up unsustainable liabilities.
6:13 —
DeleteOK, "primarily." The fact remains that nobody has shown documentary proof that Vina was primarily responsible for the financial woes of Stockton and Sacramento. If he were, his bad performance would have been amply covered in the media of those cities. It's easy to find Dalager's and Stocks' bad performance recorded in our local and regional media. I haven't found bad reports on Vina in Sacramento's or Stockton's media. That doesn't mean they don't exist. If you've found them, please provide the links. I'm not defending the guy, but your claim of guilt by association doesn't hold up.
If Gus Vina was in a financial management position in both cities, then some of the responsibility, is his, just as it would have been had Stockton and Sacramento had huge financial successes!
DeleteThis is simple logic. Ultimately, the City Managers and City Councils of those cities are responsible for those that are hired to direct their cities' finances. But Vina bears responsibility, as well, for his part in the mismanagement of public funds. I'd be interested to see his resume'. I'm certain he takes credit, where he feels it's due.
Anybody who's OK with condemning Vina based on assumptions and generalities should themselves be comfortable with being similarly condemned.
DeleteVina has worked in the public sector nearly his entire career. If he were such a big bad bear, there would be evidence in the public record. If you have it, show it.
Mismanagement is often not reported. The corruption in Bell was reported. Unfortunately, there are few newspapers left that do much investigational reporting of cities' financial management practices, until cities poorly managed are declaring bankruptcy.
DeleteAs has been repeatedly pointed out to you, Vina is not solely responsible, by he bears some responsibility for financial mismanagement of cities in which he was a financial director as in Stockton, or interim City Manager, as in Sacramento.
Both the Coast News and the Sacramento Bee have reported that Vina received a vote of no confidence in Sacramento as temporary City Manager. It worked out very well for him that the City of Encinitas hired him. Vina could resign his position in Sacramento, without his being "let go," through non-renewal of his contract.
This back-and-forth started with this comment far above:
Delete"He sunk Stocken, he sunk Sacramento, and he is sinking Encinitas."
Because that commenter nor any other could come up with documentary proof that Vina sank those cities, the charge has now been watered down to saying that since he bore finance responsibilities in those cities, he is partly to blame for their woes.
He was interim city manager in Sacramento. In a 5-4 vote, the council decided to not retain him as city manager and to conduct a national search.
If you Google his name, you'll find a quite thorough record of his tenure in Sacramento. It's not bad.
I'm no fan of Vina or what he's done in Encinitas, but it's not right or responsible to condemn him for a black past while providing no specific evidence. Any fool can rant. If you want credibility and respect, provide proof.
7:23 you are a fan VINA and you might even be VinaVia, or his new PR hire. Here are facts, when VinaVia was interim city manager of Sacramento the city was $30 million in debt, Vina's solution to the city's horrendous position was to grant huge pay raieraises to his friends cronies that not only increased their pay from 1120 to 160K but also spiked pensionsSimons. VinaVia gave these raises while many private citizens werenlosing jobs, taking pay cuts and losing homes. The city remained in debt but VinaVia and his friends made out like bandits. In Stockton pensions bk'd the city. Here in Encinitas pensions are up, Via has hired a new cabinet, via has increased =city debt. These are facts you can not cover up and that all can see. Via needs to be canned, he is horrible at his job. He is working for himself not us.
Delete10:51, you expect readers to accept your allegations without evidence? If anybody accused you of wrongdoing, wouldn't you demand proof?
Delete10:51, the hearsay is you cheat on your spouse, beat your kids and steal from your neighbors. Should we go ahead and spread the word, or might it be a good idea to see if there's proof?
Delete6:20,
DeleteA better question would be what has Vina ever accomplished that would justify a $200,000+ salary and a retirement at 55 at ~ $200,000 for life.
We know he was in finance and management of two cities that subsequently had financial disasters. No one has ever stepped forward to say Vina lifted a finger to avert those disasters.
At best, he is the ineffective First Mate on the Titanic and the Exxon Valdez. And thanks to the Encinitas City Council, he's about to retire on our dime at $200,000 a year at 55.
WCV
Hey, folks, do your homework:
Delete55 articles here that mention Vina and not one with a headline saying "Vina Sank Sacramento" or anything remotely close to blaming him for whatever financial disasters came down there:
http://www.sacramentopress.com/tag/gus%20vina
This one sounds comprehensive and fair, and almost all the comments are compliments:
http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/48837/Oneonone_with_Gus_Vina
If you find any Sacramento or Stockton press to back up your condemnation of Vina, post the URLs.
When people attacked Filner, they had testimony from his targets.
A prosecutor once told two judges that a man saw my sister Cheri Lynn Dale washing out her bloody clothes here in Leucadia the day after the Susan Taylor murder. The same prosecutor knew full well that the man (Roberto Ibarra Franco) was incarcertated for two years and couldn't possibly be telling the truth. Didn't stop the prosecution's arresting officer from making that claim front page news on the Blade Citizen though. Try to unring that bell. Not sayin' anything good about Filner. His accusers sound very credible. Well, most of them. But back to your point, when links are provided to back up anyone's claim it should season their tofu.
Delete10:46,
DeleteWe're talking about outcomes. Vina has worked in two cities before Encinitas, and they've both been financial disasters.
Municipal financial problems are rarely attributed to a single individual.
3:44, do you not see the glaring contradiction in your post?
DeleteTake Vina to task for what bad he's done in Encinitas outside the council's direction. Cite evidence and negative consequences. The Rutan & Tucker move was reprehensible and evidently done without the council's knowledge. That's in the record. Making unsubstantiated allegations about what he did in past jobs weakens any case to be made against him here. Not being able to prove the claims makes them meaningless.
What's unsubstantiated? He has only worked in poorly run cities that subsequently had financial problems.
DeleteI never said he was solely responsible for Stockton's and Sacramento's problems. He's not. But I certainly wouldn't hire someone who had only worked in Stockton and Sacramento if I wanted to hire someone who knew how to run a city responsibly.
WCV
The guy cleaning up after Vina's stint as interim city manager in Sacramento:
Delete"deficits as far as the eye can see"
WCV
No one has shown by any reasonable standard of proof that Vina bears large responsibility for Stockton's and Sacramento's financial woes. Evidence of his questionable behavior in Encinitas is easy to find. If comparable evidence exists for Vina in his past jobs, show it. If not, all you've got is suppositions and baseless allegations.
DeleteIf we're going to give someone $200,000+ and a set-for-life-at-55 pension, I would think the standard would be higher than, "Well, the only two places you've worked have been complete disasters, but we're not sure how much individual responsibility you bear, so we'll hire you."
DeleteWhat evidence is there that Vina tried to cut spending, kill unwise projects, or control the growth of liabilities in either Stockton or Sacramento?
Did Vina even learn anything from the disasters?
Instead, it looks like he is bringing the worst practices of Stockton and Sacramento here: increasing spending, increasing debt, ignoring growing liabilities, and raiding reserve accounts.
Show the specifics for all the horrible things Vina was responsible for in Sacramento. For accusations to be taken as true, you have to show proof. That's how it works. Otherwise, not guilty.
DeleteI think we all agree that the Encinitas pension and health plans are underfunded - the question is by how much. The article helps explain why we can't agree.
ReplyDeleteSo what should Encinitas do?
First, we should use a portion of the emergency accounts to pay extra to the retirement system - we are going to have to increase our payment shortly any way. The emergency funds currently earn next to nothing - in the plan, they earn interest. We are going to have to pay one way or another.
Next, we should do a re-evaluation of the status of the retirement system funding both by the City and the Encinitas Taxpayers in light of recent higher earnings.
Next, the City should start buying back the Library bonds on the open market - they currently trade at a $6 discount to par. If we buy as many bonds as we can we save $6 plus the interest paid on the bonds. These bonds are redeemable early at $102 in late 2014 or many years later at par [$100].
Next, we should require higher employee contribution to both the health and retirement plans WITHOUT giving the money to pay for it in increased salary.
Next, we desperately need to weed out those City workers that are not doing the job we pay them to do. We need City staff to enforce the existing code in an even handed way - not act as promoters for the developers. One good way of keeping track of this would be to have a portion of the city's web site where those that have had contact with staff can comment on how that transaction went - uncensored [except for language, etc.]. Those comments could help guide Council in there Staff decisions.
Next, we need to stop hiring new Staff - especially like the recently hired spin doctor. I believe our recently hired Arts Director is doing a great job, but is he worth the money? Encinitas has a great record of voluntary activism, especially in the arts.
Next, we need to have more expertise on the Staff. We hire way to many consultants [many for a political shield for the Council]. The City should require Staff to take additional classes and develop extra skills. It has always amazed me that this is not required.
I could go on, but this is long enough [or to long to some of you].
lindpat for mayor 2014!
DeleteIt goes here: EXCELLENT! See, there are answers!
DeleteEXCELLENT!
ReplyDeleteExcellent! First step in implementing plan-
ReplyDeleteFire Sad Sac and bring in a new contract City Manager to clear out Sad Sacs Cabinet. Once the deadwood is cleared, healthy growth will emerge.
Lynn why don't you run for council? Our city need you!!!
ReplyDeleteThe world according to Lynn and Kevin What a pathetic joke With out a
ReplyDeleteThread of reality. BLAH BLAH. BLAH. It's called verbal diearea
Perhaps too much reality for you, city hall insider wannabe spoiler ;)
DeleteThe only thing that will run on Lynn or Kevin is there mouth
ReplyDeleteI have no intention of trashing any individual. I do question authority. I put in a public information request to Peder Norby, through the City, that was never answered. Instead he resigned. I informed the City and Mr. Norby of "word on the streets," and was attacked for doing so. My specific questions to Norby were not answered, completely, by the City, and were never addressed, directly, by Norby, himself.
DeleteNeither have I trashed Mr. Marvin or Paul Ecke III. When I do make comments, I attempt to present the facts, and to let readers draw their own conclusions. I also post under my own name, or speak, publicly, at City Hall, giving my name, and area of residency. I DON"T attempt to denigrate and degrade other commenters or individuals, under the cover of anonymity.
There is no need for me to defend myself, or to argue with anonymous attackers, but I want to again thank those who do provide facts, and who do back up their opinions with many excellent examples of what has actually transpired.
I don't mind anyone posting anonymously, and I understand why that might be desirable. But I feel most of us are posting here to share and learn more about the "workings" of our City, to suggest ways we could make improvements, through knowledge, motivation, and civic activism. The first step is always to be informed, to be aware!
3:14-I disagree. Lynn may have long messages, but she does have most of her facts correct and is attempting to solve problems rather than to trash everyone. I, for one, applaud her for this. Thanks Lynn.
ReplyDeleteoh you mean like how she trashes c marvin, p norby, p ecke?? everyday lynn could do something nice for leucadia but she does nothing. thanks lynn.....for nothing
Delete7:10 P Norby misrepresented the consensus vote of residents, P Norby ran a bogus dot exercise, P Norby recommended 5 story buildings, P Norby was part of the group that told untruths trying to defeat Prop A. P Ecke set up a political action committee and hired a clown to harass Maggie Houlihan because Houlihan came out and said she wanted to protect community character-
Deleteyou got anything else? Norby got paid more than 100K for 10 years at taxpayers expense, Ecke gets upzoning for profits, Lynn? She gets no money, she does her homework because of principles.........
You try to demean her because you know she speaks the truth and is effective. Do you have any principles? What do you stand for, community or profits? Community participation or community manipulation?
Total BS.
DeleteAfter her name about 80% of what she writes is regurgitated goop or lies IMHO.
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DeleteLynn naysayers are a minority. Word on the street is she is liked even if not a cliff note fan. I'd show respect as she does have solid facts the majority of the time.
ReplyDeleteAND her posts are not rife w/spelling errors.....
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletedirty dan dalager and election code breaker jerome stocks attempted to bully and silence lynn. we should all be concerned. Dalager of course pled guilty to the DA and Stocks got dumped
DeleteLose Leucadian also has his special interest agenda as a city employee.
DeleteLoser- you are part of the new aristocracy, government employees who expect private citizens to work into their 70's so that public employees retire at age 55 with full benefits and exemptions to Obamacare. Public employees choose to ignore government malfeasance and mismanagement because they want to get paid. Government employees put their self interest before the interest of the public. That is why when Jerome 'I broke election codes' Stocks gave city employees a 35% pay raise against the wishes of residents the city employees gave Stocks a standing ovation-
Deleteown it, live with it, until government employees are moved to fully self-funded retirement programs they are just another special interest parasite sucking on the teat of the private citizens work effort.
Thanks to Lynn for pointing out malfeasance and mismanagement.
Loser, while you're sucking up our tax dollars at that country club we mistakenly call city hall, perhaps you could take some HR training on the ethics (lack thereof) of using city hall records to out residents.
DeleteTypical Stocksian move to try to intimidate, pretty disgusting.
Public records or not, you really don't think you're crossing a line?? Attack what Lynn says all day long, but not her personal life.
Thank you for your supportive comments, and thanks very much to WCV for being an excellent blog administrator.
DeleteAs I said, we all have rights to personal privacy and governmental transparency, which insures accountability and honesty to the public.
Our government is meant to serve us. It has been established to be by, for and of the people, not a machine, that operates, mindlessly and heartlessly.
I'm grateful we have this forum to discuss topics of concern within our City, and related areas. The City, and we, as individuals, need to learn lessons from the past, plan for the future with realistic projections of debt and earnings, and to balance looking backwards, and looking forward, with being effective, efficient, and responsible, in the present moment, acting with wisdom and integrity.
What kind of hypocrisy and ignorance are you practicing on this blog WC. Why do keep deleting the truth. The facts are relevant and your suppressing them.
DeleteThe statement was common knowledge for anyone that knows the history of Lynn and Russel and their rants at City Hall. I was aware of this before I ever worked for the city.
No personal attack here just a fact that has been told by many around town. No public or private records were searched for this subject that seems to be uneasy for some to accept.
Why all the protection for Lynn? Could it be that WC is Russel?
P.S. All that grows on the rail easement is NCTD's domain.
It's truly baffling to me.
DeleteYou will allow slander and innuendo about public officials and staff all the time on this blog but a known fact is deleted.
Why the double standard?
I believe most of the comments about public officials and staff are about their performance of official duties at taxpayer expense.
DeleteI've deleted a few about Norby, Stocks, and Gaspar that crossed the line.
Please e-mail me if you'd like to discuss further.
What line is it that I crossed?
DeleteIt doesn't seem to be clearly defined.
It seems to me that inconvenient truths about those who like to throw stones at glass houses are not allowed, yet personal attacks about me and my family are fair game.
You didn't cross the line. E-mail me.
DeleteLoser, want to play personal?? Want to tell about a certain skateboarding incident and represent it truthfully!
DeleteI'm not sure it qualified as an "incident" but you're delusional so go ahead and run with it.
DeleteBy the way, many local kids skate that spot every week. It's all over You Tube. Where ya been?
You seem to be a hostile ignorant hater.
Now go back to your Fox/Limbaugh bubble.
Edits suck... next you'll be no better than the Leucadia blog. I remember you chastising them for their edits and limitations on their blog.
ReplyDeleteNow this blog is following the same path.
I guess it just the same as politicians. Once in office, they forget their promises.
I don't believe I chastised the LB. Always admired them.
DeleteI do tend towards a more freewheeling forum, but the mindless name-calling is getting tiresome.
Attack issues, not people.
Thank you. When folks attack people...it just exposes their lack of real argument on the issues.
DeleteWhat a great idea Wc. I truly wish more people would do just that. Some people have some great ideas, but are too afraid to post because they get called all sorts of names.
DeleteBut if personal attacks were forbidden, what would fill those hours for the immature?
DeleteIt is hard for me to make a distinction between the performance of City employees and their claims of personal attacks.
DeleteThe only thing that we care about is how they do their jobs, yet some here say that we are attacking people personally.
I think that customers have a right to complain when they get bad service and those we pay are rude, underperformaing and proud of it. We are often told that there is not enough money to pay for everything, yet how many of us want to pay for these employees and their pensions?
I disagree that citizens who shine light on problems at the City deserved to be attacked and called names. How are we supposed to participate in the process when we are told misrepresentations and lies? Is it an attack when City employees lie, and we call them on it?
2:08
Delete"Is it an attack when City employees lie, and we call them on it?"
No matter who it is, the bigger the lie that's exposed, the better IMHO. However, adding inflamatory slurs to complaints can be funny in a roast with the right audience, but being irrelevant to the subject it tends to kill a complainer's credibility instead of add to it.
1:15, 3:14:
ReplyDeleteTouch a nerve?
Run for office Lynn..... Lets just see how many people can stand (support) her...
ReplyDeleteHey COE,
ReplyDeleteThank you city for cutting down the dead oleander bushes, just in time for the Artwalk. Isn't it nice to know the city is working in the best interests of the citizens????
The city did not cut them down. NCTD did! If you want anything done on the easement focus your hostility on the right public entity.
DeleteLoser- you ARE a loser. You sound disappointed that dead bushes trimmed to look like trees and fool the public are being removed. Hahaha. Focus YOUR hostility. Hahaha.
DeleteI would rather be an informed intelligent loser than an arrogant ignorant troglodyte like yourself.
DeleteAll of that blighted rail corridor easement is under the jurisdiction of NCTD.
I'm also grateful the dead Oleanders are being cut down. Although this easement is within the NCTD's domain, the City also has tree-cutting and plant removal rights along the RR right of way, and has done so before, through its contracted arborist.
DeleteI know that many Oleanders in the area have been infected by the Sharpshooter, as before detailed in a Coast News article. But it's dismaying to hear of the City's poison truck spraying! The Environmental Commission should look into that. It could be that the hardy Oleanders, weakened by the poison, were especially susceptible to Sharpshooter infestation and bacterium infection.
Dead, thanks to no water. Why is proper plant care always such a mystery to the COE? Oh, that's right: no money to keep things alive. One more way the pensions and salaries contribute to our quality of life!
ReplyDeleteCOE maintaining the character of Leucadia. Dead plants, flowers trees, bushes......
DeleteI doubt if the oleanders died from lack of water or the insect someone mentioned before. The drought of 76 had no negative impact on them at all and we had quite a bit of rain the last year. I saw the poison truck go by them 6 months ago and took a picture. No idea who was driving, but I do know in the past a certain former employee at the city named Bob Nelson wanted all of the high maintenace oleanders removed asl well as "every blue gum eucalyptus in the county". I imagine the railroad feels the same way.
DeleteIf this is the thinking of the city.... These people have got to go. Meanwhile the city plants flowers but doesn't water them. What chumps!!!
DeleteLynns comments can become very personal.the unfounded attack on Peder Norby
ReplyDeleteat a council meeting pure BS and some thought slanders,she shows very poor
Judgement and has no boudries we have no idea what is going to come out when she
Opens her mouth at one meeting she spoke for 30 minutes Oral comm and every
agenda item. BLAH. BLAH BLAH she's a joke what a waste of time. Staff time and council time
Lynn raised a question about the financial management of the historical foundation. Perhaps it was not asked in the most tact way, but Norby could have simply opened up the books. He went on the defensive. Did you notice how quickly he left town with the same trite reasons that all politicians use. It made me suspicious that a nerve was touched. Ouch!
DeleteNorby also dropped out of his race for County Supervisor. I think that he acted like he had things to hide.
Delete3:32 pm comments are spot on....
DeleteBetween the closed books, the Cardiff specific plan " no consensus" claim, Prop A denouncement s at DEMA meetings for nearly a year (ask a DEMA member who is willing to speak), and the ERAC video, Peder stacked himself up a nice, high pile of baggage.
DeleteI never spoke for a total of 30 minutes at any Council Meeting, including counting the 3 minutes allowed for oral communications.
DeleteI have not been present at the last few Council Meetings. When I do attend, I speak on every subject that is of ongoing interest to me, personally, and I know, to others in the community.
Hear is what comes out.......
DeleteBlah, blah, blah.... and blah, blah, blah,....did I tell you blah, blah, blah...... to sum it up blah, blah, blah...
If a person talks and no one hears any memorable or useful comments, did the person effectively communicate?
Another copy and paste, eh?
DeleteRepetitious attempts to kill the messenger rather than to address the merits of the issue.
Pathetic!!
4:02 and 4:06 excellent points Norby would have been lambasted, exposed and fried if he'd run. Not even his buddy Logan 'the waterboy' Jenkins at the UT could have saved Norby's oversized bacon. There was video of him not representing the consensus vote in cardiff to limit high density, there was video of him rrecommending 5 story stack and pack at ERAC and then there were questions about his preservation books, Norby got out of town just in time, his compatriots Dan Dalager and Jerome Stocks did not.
ReplyDelete6:26
DeleteAt risk of it sounding like a personal attack, you are so full of shit you make my teeth itch.
It is a personal attack, plain and simple. My teeth aren't itching.
Delete6:26 calling out the truth, 5:54 do you have any facts at all to support your claim or are you only capable of name calling?
Delete5:54
DeleteHow does one personally attack the annonymous?
Great question Fred.
DeleteThanks, cep'n for the spelling.
DeleteAgenda Items are there for the public to participate, not for Council to just "go through the motions." Council meetings are considered public hearings. In other cities, every subject that is an Agenda item, requires disclosures by Council of contacts and conversations outside of the Council Meeting. Our city policy should be the same.
ReplyDeleteRacing to the bottom again? Firefighters, teachers, police. These are underpayed careers, partially because contract negotiations (yes, contracts, as in business agreements) typically forego some short term benefits or wages in the name of long term security. You know, conservatism in action!
ReplyDeleteI'm enthralled by the spectacle of the moving goalposts in this pension debate. You want good teachers and people who are willing to risk their lives for far too little money throughout their prime earning years, but you want to option to whip the rug out from under them when the deregulated mess you've helped create crashes the economy?
Not to worry though, climate change, pollution, inadequate basic health care, and a lifetime of work stress will work in the NIMBYs favor, killing the good people who sacrifice for their community long before the current actuarial tables predict. It's not a bug, it's a feature!
P.S., http://neatoday.org/2011/03/17/four-things-you-need-to-know-about-pensions/
5:55 you seem to me another self serving public employee sucking on the teat of private citizens. Lucky for you government in America has been hijacked by self serving cronies on both sides who will continue to take money from private citizens to fund the new aristocracy of public employees- after all the cops have all the guns.
DeleteYour argument makes no sense for the following reasons- 1. City employees are the highest paid people in town, Vina gets 225K annually, his 4 Directors get 160K annually, the fire chief gets 212K annually, need I go on? OK let's factor in their pensions- Vina, the new fire chief, and his expensive cabinet all get to retire at age 55 with full benefits while the rest of us keep working to pay for it. What, you say prove it?- Mark Muir getting 170K for life plus benefits- you get anything else?
Oh, firefighters are underpaid? Please, see Muir with his 170K pension and the new fire chief with his 212K salary.
Risk their lives? Give me a break, fire all those people and begin tomorrow without a pension and salary reductions of 40% and the line would be out the door and around the corner of people applying.
So, those are my facts, where are your? Are you only capable of empty baseless hollow rhetoric?
pffff.... fire fighers have a cake job.
ReplyDeletethat is why everyone quites there job to become a fire fighter....
Then you can be a fire fighter - work 2 days a week and have another career the other 3 days a week like some many do.
My friends favorite part of their week is when they get to go hang out at the station with their buds and get paid OT.
Life should be that good for everyone.... sheeze....
pay competitive salaries and cut pensions all together. Let individuals manager their on finances.
In my opinion- teachers and police deserve way more and fire fighters way less. but thats just my opinion. Enjoy your sleep, workout, BBQ, movie or all the above today guys. life is good, when your a fire dude.
So you want firefighters who are sleep-deprived and out of shape to come to your burning house?
ReplyDeletehttp://apps.usfa.fema.gov/firefighter-fatalities/
Yeah. Cake job. They should be spending that time more wisely doing "job creator" activities like playing the financial markets, right?
Enc firefighters let your home burn to the ground, sleep deprived or not. But thank you Mr. Firefighter for giving us your bias opinion.
DeleteIn shape? With all due respect have you seen how unfit former fire chief Muir is? Also, I am not ok with having to work hard to pay someone else's pension. I think it is criminal in fact. We need to go back to volunteer fire department.
DeleteOh.... There goes the fire princesses again...
DeleteSome one struck a nerve....
Better go for a run at the beach today while your on OT and blow off some steam....
Yes, the night Muir was installed on Council the cops in attendance were overheard laughing at the notion of Muir trying to get to and put out a fire.
ReplyDeleteDear 10:33 AM loser.
ReplyDeleteLaugh all you want, but there were decisions Mark made during the big fire 6 years ago that probably saved whatever rat's nest you are living in, you know, the one your Mommy left you in her will.
I'm sure most of you wouldn't hesitate to change places with Mark or any of the firefighters or public employees. Too bad your Amway regional ripped you off. Keep playing those lottery numbers!
The unacknowledged envy that oozes from these posts is both sad and pathetic, but amusing nonetheless.
Maybe you can develop properties under your wife's maiden name like Morgan: that's been profitable...
Thanks for the perspective from the Ruling Class.
DeleteWCV
1:26 you arrogantly expose America's newest aristocracy, government employees beholden to no one empowered by unions that believe average private citizens should pay to support their extravagant unearned lifestyles. Like the Congressional exemption for Obamacare, like the SEIU public union exemption for Obamacare, the list goes on. (do you have any facts to support your position or only name calling? Less than 8 fires a year in Encinitas yet Muir talked us into spending more than $20Million on unneeded fire stations)
DeleteWhile being a fireman is a noble pursuit should we be directing our children to forgo self reliance and industry in the name of public employee service because it is the only industry that gets pay raises? While private workers jobs are eliminated, wage cuts enacted and benefits cut right here in Encinitas city employees get pay raises, increased pensions and increased benefits-
You are the 1%, you are the one's I am afraid of. Not the fat cat bankers scheming to make millions but rather it is arrogant government employees who want to take from the many to pay their life of luxury lfietyle- then arrogantly condescend to hardworking taxpayers who pay the freight.
" there were decisions mark made", that's what Muir was paid to do. Make the proper decisions. You act as if he was doing us a favor by doing his job.
DeletePerhaps you can explain why the last 5 houses to burn in encinitas, burned to the ground..... Was that a policy ( decision) Mark made???? If so tell it to the home owners that lost everything.
And too bad you mischaracterized most of us who worked hard for our homes, our "rats' nests" as you call them in an effort to deflect criticism of the fact that a fireman's wages are completely out of whack compared to what other hard-working civil servants make, never mind the average working stiff.
DeleteAnd pensions? I work for a Fortune 100 and pensions went bye-bye about 10 years ago. Cry me a river, 1:26.
Fire dude, don't mistake "envy" for disgust.
ReplyDeleteBiergarden approved to open with their rowdy crowd until 10pm. Two patrons were so smashed a week ago neither were able to hail a cab, Some people passing by did it for them! This is not an upscale environment, it is a noisy crowd. Looks like local attorney's are supporting this towns ruin.
ReplyDeleteYou had your chance to buy everything 20 years ago for 10 cents on the dollar and keep it empty and run down. But you didn't. So now you complain, grow a pair and suck it up Alice.
DeleteNerve struck.
DeleteFire Wienies sure complain a lot for having a workfare job that could be done by volunteers.... they are no different that useless lifeguards and border patrol. workfare that could be cut and no negative service result would occur.
ReplyDeleteHope you had a great movie and good night sleep my little princesses.
Homeland Security might just fall into ghat group as well, yes?
ReplyDeleteYes. 80% of it.
ReplyDelete