Wednesday, April 12, 2017

Appeals court rules that cities can reform pensions

It just takes leadership.

Union-Tribune:
A state appeals court on Tuesday vindicated San Diego’s five-year-old aggressive pension cutbacks, potentially saving the city millions it could have been forced to spend creating retroactive pensions for more than 3,000 workers hired since 2012 [and hundreds of millions going forward, obviously].

California’s Fourth District Court of Appeal unanimously overturned a 2015 state labor board ruling that said the cutbacks were illegal because of then-Mayor Jerry Sanders’ involvement in the successful citizens’ initiative that made the changes.

The initiative, Proposition B on the June 2012 ballot, replaced guaranteed pensions with 401(k)-style retirement plans for all newly-hired city employees except police officers.
Encinitas' pensions are somewhere between $40 million and $154 million underfunded depending on how rose-colored your glasses are.

The average career Encinitas city government worker retires young and receives $98,000 per year for life.

63 comments:

  1. Cut all current and future pensions by 90%. Do it tonight council, tonight.

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  2. If it takes leadership and political courage, it won't happen in Encinitas.

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    1. Yep - leadership is completely lacking. Maybe take the San Diego initiative and use it for Encinitas - with whatever revisions are necessary for the municipality and local conditions. Pensions are out of control.

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  3. Cut pensions for anyone making over 50k per year off pensions. Cut Muirs $130,000 per year.

    Its the solution to a huge problem caused by Jerome Stocks in 2005.

    Come on City Council do something right.

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    1. You do realize that had Stocks done absolutely nothing on pensions there would still be payments over $50k a year.......

      So is your beef with Stocks, or with pensions in general?

      - The Sculpin

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  4. Muir's pension is about $180,000. As often as it's been posted that the council voted 4-1 (including Houlihan in the majority) in 2005 to increase pensions 35%, ignorant people will insist Stocks did it all by himself.

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  5. 9:03- Stocks may have not done it by himself, but for those of us who remember this, he sure took credit for it and possibly won an election for it as well.

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    1. Stocks and three other council members voted to increase pensions by 35% in 2005. Stocks is despicable, but you're giving him too much credit for the pension spike.

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  6. His lowness $sss$, also bullied his fellow council members many times and was known to get in Maggies face screaming at her with spittle flying.

    There is no defense for such bad and mean behavior. How someone didn't deck him, especially a spouse, attests to their quality of character, and says more than enough about this disgraceful human being than is needed to be put in words.

    We all know who is and has been in his camp all these years. They certainly deserve each other.

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  7. Fake news. Comparing apples to oranges.

    You can do anything to new hires. Problem here is old ones.

    No one NEW wants to work for SD anymore now either. I don't think that is what we want here in Encinitas, in terms of recruiting talent.

    I suggest rolling back salaries that fuel CALPERS related issues. And substitute it with higher employer paid health care. See, the problem is that someone makes 100k, but pays 20k in medical coverage. That is 100k that goes to CALPERS formula, but 80k pre-tax take home pay. So when they retire they adjust to 100k.

    Why not just pay your employees 80k and give them the benefits? They get the same take home pay. We save soooo much $ in the long run.


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    1. Jeff Murphy chose to go to San Diego after the pension reform.

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    2. 10:25---I am trying to understand how this is "Fake News". Trump likes to throw that term around a lot. Maybe you can help me: what is "Fake" about this post? Did the appeals court not uphold proposition B?

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  8. Slash all salaries, pensions and staff.
    Will the city be open for business tomorrow or is it one of those, saving electricity Fridays?? LOLOLOLLLL. Such a scam.

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  9. Paying high salary doesn't necessarily guarantee good employees. When an employee at city hall leaves, it's almost always to go to another governmental employer. Recent examples at Encinitas City Hall: Jeff Murphy, Manjeet Ranu, Glenn Pruim, Lisa Rudloff. These are only the most recent. They know where to get good salaries and benefits and a low-demanding work environment.

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    1. A better question is how does Encinitas end up with so many losers on its payroll??
      How many millions have been wasted on these mindless morons?? W
      Who hires them, who recommends them to be hired??

      Only in govt can you fail at your job and go on to receive glowing reports and offers of other employment.

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  10. What the Citizens have to demand from their state and federal representatives is to pass tax laws that tax execive pensions like Muir's 50% beyond $30k and give the revenue to the pension funds to help offset the taxpayer burden.

    Muirs example making $180k a year in pension would equate to

    30k + 50%(180k-30k) = $105 k per year. This is a solution I support.

    Share it with your state and federal representatives and lets get this BS tax robbery under control!!

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    1. You are giving Muir to much credit for working 11 days a months. How about your formula minus an additional 50% at the end.
      Yes firefighters work 11 days a month.

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    2. Actually, firefighters work 264 hours a month...or using your unit of measure 33 days a month....

      - The Sculpin

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    3. Sculpin-I suppose this is why they all apply for disability, over worked.

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    4. Sculpin, the self-appointed expert from A to Z, thinks firefighters work 264 hr/month. They sleep 260 hr/month is more appropriate.

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    5. Are you suggesting fire fighters should only be paid for time responding to calls?

      We pay them to be ready. That means trained, rested, gear maintained, and able to roll in less than a minute.

      If you've ever had a loved one need their services, as I have, you'd appreciate our first responders.

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  11. Not on topic, but a Sheriff's office of some sort was opened in the building on D St. in which the Manhatten Pizza and reality company once did business. It is located in the former reality office. I guess the drunken downtown debacle on weekends convinced them to have a presence in the area. How it will be staffed is an unknown.

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    1. 5:41 Do you know the difference between reality and realty?

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    2. 11:23 PM Picky picky

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  12. Bottom feeder must have been a fire princess in the past. His contributions, such as they are, seem to indicate some inside city position.

    His declaring that the fire princesess work that many hours in a month, while they spend most of that time polishing their helmets, is not any kind of work the most of the public would recognize. Cushy much?

    Bob Bonde has a better way, but as long as Mark is there, it will get nowhere. We could be saving millions of our limited funds and actually serve the city and the residents better if council would consider alternative operations of the fire dept. This goes for the police and sheriffs dept. too. There is a b better way and the public knows it. Council, you know it too.

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    1. If you know it, share it with us!

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    2. Is the plan hidden in an Easter egg?

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    3. Bob's a nice guy, but his emergency services plan was a joke. Go watch the video. Muir took Bob's silly plan apart with questions.

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    4. Muir come alive when anybody attacks the status quo in the fire department. Bonde's plan deserves consideration.

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    5. It was considered. They gave him access to information, time, and a council meeting to make his case.

      He wanted to close a fire station, but said it wouldn't affect response times. He offered no evidence to support the claim.

      He said we should withdraw from a regional ambulance alliance, which county supervisors wouldn't approve.

      He wanted to send our crews to La Jolla every time a patient needed transport to hospital, which would take one station out of service regularly, increasing response times.

      He wanted crews to respond to medical calls on an ambulance, leaving the fire equipment stranded in a station with no crew if a second call comes in.

      When pressed to name a single town in the nation who had success with Bonde'a ideas, he stuttered and had nothing.

      Fools who tout Bonde's "plan" either didn't see the presentation, or didn't understand it.

      None of this has anything to do with pension reform, which needs to happen.

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  13. It is in the public record for all to see.

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  14. 10:30am. Happy Easter Sunday Mark Muir.

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    1. Nope.

      You are confused because you can't imagine an informed citizen who knows the facts.

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    2. The two ambulances and their crews are AMR, not EFD, correct?

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    3. Correct.

      http://www.thecoastnews.com/2013/11/28/contract-awarded-to-new-ambulance-service-provider/

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    4. OK, so if an AMR ambulance and crew responds to a medical call (86% of all legit calls), how does that leave EFD apparatus marooned with no personnel at fire station one or five? What's the point of responding to a medical call with an ambulance *and* an engine company?

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    5. Bonde's plan was to withdraw from the multi-city ambulance contract, buy ambulances, and cross train our fire fighters.

      If the call comes in as medical, they hop on the ambulance. If that crew is wrapping up a call and a fire call comes in, it would have to be serviced by a more distant station.

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    6. Bonde's plan was an acknowledgement that the overwhelming majority of calls are medical and an effort to create a more efficient system to address that fact.

      As it is now, we have only two ambulances and a lot of other expensive people and apparatus with little or nothing to do.

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  15. Maybe someone can answer a question I have. 12:06 mentions we have 2 ambulances. I was under the impression that we shared those with Solana Beach and Del Mar. Am I wrong on this? Does anyone know how many fire trucks we have? I know I could do a CPRA request, but I am hoping someone with the knowledge already might be able to let us know.

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    1. Read the article linked above. We don't own any ambulances.

      We share six ambulances in a pool among Encinitas, Solana Beach, Del Mar, RSF, and Elfin Forest.

      Two of those six amulances are stationed in Encinitas, but they can shift around depending on demand, and availability (e.g. If one Encinitas-based ambulance is transporting a patient to La Jolla, and the second goes on a call, a third might be temporarily rotated in to Encinitas from Solana Beach or RSF.)

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    2. We have five or six firehouses, so each station has 1 if not 2 trucks. Including the famous Hook and Ladder truck that goes up to 8 stories in height. Why?? No one knows, this FD will tell you they use this truck to fight fires but what they won't tell you is that ever home that catches fire burns to the ground...
      A better question to ask the FD is why does it take 3 firefighters to buy a broom and why does each firefighter carry a radio?? They are a group and they never leave each others sight so why the need for each ff to carry a radio is beyond reason.....
      Here's a better question, why does the fire chief get paid 70 times the pay of a nuclear aircraft carrier on a employee bases??

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    3. Capt of a nuclear carrier...

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    4. Funny thing about ladders.

      They can go horizontally, as well as vertically.

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    5. 11:02- so the FD shoots the ladder through the window to fight the fire or to allow more oxygen into the home so it burns faster??

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    6. Between homes. Down allies too narrow for a truck. Toward the middle of a large roof (Target, Wal Mart, REI).

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    7. Alleys too narrow for trucks?? Where?? Not allowed. Not up to code.
      Middle of a large roof?? Walmart, Target, REI all have sprinklers. Why would there be any fire there?? FD would just let it burn to the ground anyway...

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    8. Narrow allies between most of the NS streets in the grid in Cardiff.

      So, you think if there are sprinklers, you never need a fire hose? That's interesting. And by "interesting," I mean "dumb."

      The air conditioning systems of large buildings are on the roof. They are high energy systems that can catch fire, and they are above the sprinklers anyway.

      Sounds like your arguments are bunk. Sorry. A ladder truck is a useful piece of fire equipment.

      Run along now.

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    9. 7:42- site 3 cases of air conditioning units catching fire in Encinitas, site ONE case of an air conditioning unit catching fire?? Hell, if AC units catch fire so often then the council should simply ban them altogether.

      Based on your logic everyone that goes to the beach MIGHT drown... so I suppose you are going to tell me we need a new lifeguard station...yeah right!!!

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    10. Yes. Because the best time to prepare for anything is after it's happened three times. [sarcastic slow clap]

      Know what else we've got, that most of haven't used three times yet? Air bags, life insurance, earthquake insurance, Amber Alert system, tsunami warning system, CERT teams. . .

      I love people like you. Bitch when money is spent preparing for things that might happen. Bitch when we are unprepared for unpredictable things. Bitch. Bitch. Bitch.

      You should loan your crystal ball to the city so they can spend money only on emergencies a week or two before they actually happen. That would be helpful.

      http://news3lv.com/news/local/fire-in-air-conditioning-unit-damages-roof-at-new-ikea-facility

      http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/general-news/20160303/pasadena-school-roof-fire-sparked-by-air-conditioner

      https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/HVAC-Unit-Catches-Fire-on-Roof-of-UMD-Dorm-239912561.html%3Famp%3Dy

      http://lstribune.net/lees-summit-news/roof-fire-contained-to-air-conditioning-unit.htm

      http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/34329391/mfd-air-condition-unit-ignites-on-business-roof

      http://www.ktvz.com/news/bend/ac-unit-catches-fire-on-roof-of-platypus-pub/69109466

      https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/oct/15/air-conditioning-unit-fourplex-catches-fire/

      http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/lake-geneva-resort-evacuated-after-roof-fire/article_27dfaa72-164a-5bbc-b38a-5d35fb4bf825.html

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  16. A couple of years ago when Stockton went into bankruptcy, the fire princesses continued to get their inflated overpaid salaries and benefits unabated. It mattered little if the city was going dow the tubes to any of them.

    While the police cut back on their personnel, resulting in less to no enforcement in some neighborhoods, the fire princesses kept theirs.

    In some neighborhoods when they responded to calls, they would be pelted with rocks, because everyone knew that they were not being held accountable to their citizens or the city by refusing to budge on their overblown salaries and benefits that help as much as anything to sink their city. Their council of course, wasted millions on petty expenditures that were cosmetic at the best.

    Does any of this sound at all familiar? That the city's residents blamed the firefighters in part for the bankruptcy is a shame, but the Stockton fire princesses had some of the blame too.

    Lets hope that we don't get that that point here in Encinitas. We need them when we need them, but the amount of paid downtime is troubling, and it is idiotic to send fire trucks out to answer medical calls and other instances when a fire truck is not needed. The actual need for the fire trucks is a small minority of the calls.

    There is a better way to manage them than what we have been doing for too long. Our city deserves some other options that the public has brought to the councils attention in the past, but with Muir up there, it never goes anywhere. There is not a FTE that Mark is not on the side of, If he is so in favor of more FTE, he should cough up the dough himself from his exorbitant pension.

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    1. The fire princesses endorsed Blakespear, Muir and Kranz this last election.

      What is this better fire service plan that can saves us money? I'm getting tired of this same old whinning with no real solution!

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    2. Next we'll fire all the teachers with their pensions and have the janitors teach instead.

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    3. $6 Trillion in unfunded pension liabilities. Get out your check book. Of course janitors have unions also, how about the janitor integrity BART system in San Francisco earning $280,000 a year, he get 90% of that as his pension. All for emptying a few trash cans....

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    4. What about Prison Guards and their salaries and benefits. It makes the other public employees look under paid. Come on Democrats, take a stand against your public princesses!

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    5. Hey.... let's all give a big cheer for our fire princesses. Only took them 30 minutes to quell the fire alarm at SDA this AM. I'm awoken at 4:30 AM and by 5 AM the alarm was off. Well done boys, well done. That's gonna look awesome on paper.

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    6. 5:33,

      That's terrible.

      Let us know if you have any real problems.

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    7. 5:33 - would it have made you feel better if they were only making $15 an hour with no benefits?

      - The Sculpin

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    8. Sculpin- it would make me feel better if it didn't take them 30 minutes to flip a switch...but I doubt that looks good on paper.

      And $15 an hour to sleep is mighty pricey for the zzzz that rack up.

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    9. Two houses burned down in my area, one was spitting distance from the fire station. Their record speaks for itself, they are paid way too much for the job they don't do well. And their little scam of giving all the overtime in a year to one person, to jack up his pension, should be criminal. Not the heros we grew up admiring, no ethics or morales on display with our crew.

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  17. First thing is make the Life guards non- union and pay the head lifeguard minimum wage which is all the position warrants. Talk about a do nothing cush job.

    The new $4million dollar life guard tower does nothing to save lives and only takes up precious beach towel area.

    What a waste of money. where was Surfrider and the Ca Coastal Commission on this one?

    Stupid City Leadership and stupid City Council-members for funding this waste of money.

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  18. 6:15- The answer to your question is the City Council rammed this life guard tower through and Surfrider and Calif. Coastal Commission had no say in it. Blame this one directly on Shaffer, Barth and Kranz. It is called, in the parlance of our time, a "trophy project". Sort of like Barth Grove at Glen Park. This city has some serious infrastructure problems. We didn't need a 4 million dollar lifeguard tower, and many spoke against it, either in email form or at the Council. It did no good. It was a done deal by the time it got to the citizens. There have been many of these over the years, yet our roads have potholes, we have a homeless population that could use some help, we have a lot of problems that 4 million could be used for. Check the Council agendas. You won't see many of those on the calendar.

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  19. The city is on a reckless spending spree. Salaries are over-inflated, pensions beyond reasonable and employees on staff beyond the need. Let the monkeys guard the bananas and the result is guaranteed.

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