11:13- the situation at El Portal hasn't changed in the last 50+ years. It was dangerous then and it's dangerous now. It's not like the Encinitas just discovered the joys of tunnels.. And yet.... lower the train, if a ratty little town like SB can do it, why can't big progressive utopian Encinitas??
Trench the tracks! Solana did it. Carlsbad is gonna do it. The money is there to be gotten. All it would take is a commitment by a ballsy city council. Our council people are wimps.
Solana Beach got them trenched because they agreed to have the train station there. Del Mar, where it used to be, didn't want a huge station and declined the offer. So SB took them up on it. I don't know about Carlsbad.
If our reps would ever demand that SANDOG address the lowering of the tracks and be serious about it, as in drop out, maybe they would find some of the 5 widening funds to help us.
Just what good does SANDOG do for us? They give us false future population numbers and demand that we supply all this housing on those false prognostications and we have not questioned them. Yet. Next time, we damn well should. Make them prove the numbers they are giving us.
If we had the cajones and the will, even the county supervisors could step to some degree. Dave Roberts would have tried to help us with whatever he could, but he never got any indication from our reps, our council, that this was wanted.
With one of own there now, maybe she could offer some suggestions on how to go about lowering the tracks.
Every tunnel under the tracks will only prevent ever lowering the tracks and the cost of each one of these, we could have a dozen at-grade crossings.
Single expensive piecemeal projects are feel good efforts for a very small minority that these will serve, and are shortsighted for the whole betterment of the community at large.
The costs of 1 to 5 lowered crossing has very little bearing on the future lowering of the tracks.
While are City Council pisses away $10 million for a $4million piece of property and wastes another $5 million on a concrete block in the surf zone that will house 3-5 lifeguards that should be out in towers watching swimmers, Carlsbad is focused on lowering its tracks.
Its embracing that Carlsbad has more common sense than Encinitas.
The hundreds of millions of tax dollars spent on undrecrossings would go a long way to trenching and covering the tracks.
Trenching and covering the tracks is the cost effective and appropriate solution to the safety, character and environmental hazards our public owned railroad takes out on our community to service the transportation needs of our county and country.
Parking will require trenching and covering of the parking lots. It costs far more to do such parking structures and we have little choice now that we over developed the downtown area with little parking left that is damaging our business district today.
It would be helpful if The City had a number for trenching from La Costa to just north of Encinitas Blvd. Carlsbad's study could provide benchmarking. Could the 1 mile stretch possiblyour cost more than 100 MUSD? The idea of spending 5-10 % of this cost on walk-understand is ridiculous. The underpasses do nothing to abate noise / horns / dust.
They will likely cost $30-40M total. There is no defined project or cost for parking at the ped crossings. Until there is, the cost is zero.
$30-40M is peanuts relative to the Billions required to trench (without cover--covering would add to the cost bigly). Working toward plans and funding for trenching is fine, but it will be a decade or more before anything happens, if at all.
Building the underpasses now doesn't inhibit or foreclose trenching at all, financially or from an engineering perspective.
It makes hella sense to pursue both in parallel. Thank you city council for doing the smart thing.
Hundreds of millions to trench and cover and if done right it would pay for itself over time.
Better than throwing the same amount of money away for a half baked solution of a dozen tunnels under our railroad.
Go for the long term solution as it is not only more cost effective to trench and cover but safer for the public and if done correctly with less environmental impact.
Yes, lets do an EIR! But our public railroad NCTD refuses to do it because they know what damages will be revealed!
Get Elon Musk down here with his tunneler. He could get it done quickly and efficiently. Oh, I forgot he isn't the government. Drain the mini swamps we have in San Diego and Encinitas and get a government that works for the people and not the other way around.
Trench, no cover lagoon to lagoon. Adjusted for inflation from the city's study IDs $200 million as the liberally estimated cost, including four vehicle crossings and eight ped/bike crossings.
That's in keeping with Solana's cost, adjusting for inflation, its shorter length, one vehicle crossing and three ped/bike crossings.
Nowhere near billions, 7:10.
The Montgomery, El Portal and Hillcrest undercrossings were estimated to average $6.4 million each. The Santa Fe crossing cost $5.6 million.
In Palo Alto the 2% option is half the $1 billion price quoted for the 1% option. The 1% option adds another 10,000 ft. of trenching. That's almost 2 miles.
To spend many millions to build additional undercrossings or overcrossings is financial foolishness when the money could go to trenching. Let's start with the Leucadia section.
Our public railroad agency NCTD with SANDAG support refused to do any EIR on the expansion of the railroad here. They knew if they did then their plans would be squashed because of the negative environmental impacts on this sensitive coastal corridor.
10:29 The city had a study done in 2000. It considered several options. Dropping the tracks below grade was one of them. Ask the city clerk for the link, or go to city hall and read the hard copy.
Whoever is saying billions to put the tracks in a trench from lagoon to lagoon is off by hundreds of millions of dollars.
Of course lowering the tracks would be expensive, but the benefits outweigh the cost.
Covering the trench is unnecessary and would greatly increase the cost. For that reason, Solana and Alameda tracks are not covered.
Solana Beach went out and got the Federal money in the early 1990's that was needed to trench the tracks. No discussion of trenching the tracks can be had until the city or its reps have put into motion the effort to apply for federal money to trench the tracks. And hint, California not real popular in DC right now.
Covering the trench is necessary to re-connect our community seperated by our public owned railroad that ignores the damages the expansion of this railroad does to the community.
Put in a parkway, parking and more.. and the covering of our railroad will pay for itself over time.
Sure doesn't help when the city's Mayor writes hit pieces on the city's Federal Rep. With fed help, Encinitas got appropriations for needed sand last year,as did Oceanside. Good luck getting anything from the Feds when Mayor goes out of her way to give the finger to our Rep and city council members host fundraisers for his opponent.
Most of the railroads in SoCal near the beach do not have fences blocking off access...
Where is our Coastal City Council members that manage NCTD? Why have they not stood up for the local citizens that have there quality of life damaged by the expansion of our railroads without adequate infrastructure put in place to protect the local citizens...
Just take 1/100th of what is spent on destroying lives in Iraq and Afgan. and you could pay for the cut and cover and send every kid in Encinitas to Havard.
The money is there considering money has been free for over 10 years now.
News yesterday stated we wasted $28 Million buying woodland camouflage uniforms for the Afghan Army (in a desert)... LOL, after we spent $43 million for one auto gas station in Afghanistan.
Yet we cannot fix our infrastructure like trenching and covering our public railroad or our schools.
Government contractors making the big bucks - insider deals. And the Trump Administration is thinking of sending more troops to Afghanistan - be sure to have the body bags ordered!
Muir asked the council to bring back an agenda item to review undergrounding the tracks in order to have public discussions, with current data and opportunities and to get the council to make a public statement on their postion. They other 4 council members said NO, not interested!
I propose that 2 council members be placed on 24 hour body parts recovery duty, until the train is in a trench. This way they will understand the impact that suicide by train has on everyone. An arm here, a leg there. Hand/foot scattered over hells half acre...
The council members would rotate this duty without any pay increase.
4:12, are you aware of the incredibly large sums of federal money it requires to trench the tracks? One more time, THE TRENCHING WILL NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT A LARGE PORTION OF FEDERAL MONEY COMING INTO ENCINITAS.
The sums of money needed to cover and trench our railroad is small considering the need and benefit.
And yes, Federal money is needed and should be spent on projects such as this that has national implications.
This is the most important railroad corridor in the nation. It should be made an example of so others could follow in responsible development and progress.
Its fair to say Encinitas moonlight beach area was busy yesterday.
But all for a great cause.
So since all those tourist and people are enjoying our coastline and downtown area, why should they pay some fees to help with the operations and maintainence of the beach and downtown area?
Why should us residents pick up all the costs for our lifeguard services and maintaining the beautiful coast line.I recommend the City making Moonlight beach parking lot and all the surrounding parking area, paid parking like Del Mar, Solana Beach, Carlsbad, and Oceanside.
I also recommend a policy that all the revenue collected by the paid parking be budgeted for capital project to improve the infrastructure along the coast. I should not just go into General Fund.
9:26am. Thomas Roger Ogden. Freedom of speech is permitted here and protected by the Constitution.
Your hate speech is not and we will protect our treasured community of Encinitas from the likes of you every chance we get.
Get used to it. Find somewhere else to spread your sickness. Go away and stay away. Thanks WC for taking his trash out again and again and again and again.
3:30pm You are more of the goose-stepping hate mongering variety than those of us here in Encinitas who can recognize the subversive rantings of your sick mind for what they are.
You will be called out every time you invade this local resource with your demented ramblings. Thanks WC
What yahoo at the city authorized the removal of the plants and flowers at Leucadia roadside park in the green zone adjacent to 101??
ReplyDeleteLower the train not the underpass.... idiots in this town do everything bassackward.
ReplyDeleteYou have billions of dollars to offer?
DeleteBuild the underpass.
When we find billions in the couch cushions to trench, removing underpasses is rounding error.
Denying a safe walk to school and farmers market while we wait decades for funding isn't the right thing to do.
It costs nowhere near billions of dollars to trench and cover our public railroad tracks.
DeleteSolana Beach trenching was less than $100 million. About what it would cost to put in the dozen or more tunnels needed in Encinitas.
11:13- the situation at El Portal hasn't changed in the last 50+ years. It was dangerous then and it's dangerous now. It's not like the Encinitas just discovered the joys of tunnels.. And yet.... lower the train, if a ratty little town like SB can do it, why can't big progressive utopian Encinitas??
ReplyDeleteTrench the tracks! Solana did it. Carlsbad is gonna do it. The money is there to be gotten. All it would take is a commitment by a ballsy city council. Our council people are wimps.
ReplyDeleteSolana Beach got them trenched because they agreed to have the train station there. Del Mar, where it used to be, didn't want a huge station and declined the offer. So SB took them up on it. I don't know about Carlsbad.
ReplyDeleteThere's no place to put a big RR station and parking lot in Del Mar.
ReplyDeleteIf our reps would ever demand that SANDOG address the lowering of the tracks and be serious about it, as in drop out, maybe they would find some of the 5 widening funds to help us.
ReplyDeleteJust what good does SANDOG do for us? They give us false future population numbers and demand that we supply all this housing on those false prognostications and we have not questioned them. Yet. Next time, we damn well should. Make them prove the numbers they are giving us.
If we had the cajones and the will, even the county supervisors could step to some degree. Dave Roberts would have tried to help us with whatever he could, but he never got any indication from our reps, our council, that this was wanted.
With one of own there now, maybe she could offer some suggestions on how to go about lowering the tracks.
Every tunnel under the tracks will only prevent ever lowering the tracks and the cost of each one of these, we could have a dozen at-grade crossings.
Single expensive piecemeal projects are feel good efforts for a very small minority that these will serve, and are shortsighted for the whole betterment of the community at large.
At grade crossings require either train horn or wayside horns. Too much noise.
DeleteBuild the pedestrian undercrossings now while working on longer term solutions.
Leaving things dangerous while looking at other options is a bad idea. Taking money from freeway expansion is also a bad idea.
The costs of 1 to 5 lowered crossing has very little bearing on the future lowering of the tracks.
ReplyDeleteWhile are City Council pisses away $10 million for a $4million piece of property and wastes another $5 million on a concrete block in the surf zone that will house 3-5 lifeguards that should be out in towers watching swimmers, Carlsbad is focused on lowering its tracks.
Its embracing that Carlsbad has more common sense than Encinitas.
The hundreds of millions of tax dollars spent on undrecrossings would go a long way to trenching and covering the tracks.
ReplyDeleteTrenching and covering the tracks is the cost effective and appropriate solution to the safety, character and environmental hazards our public owned railroad takes out on our community to service the transportation needs of our county and country.
Hundreds of millions?
DeleteSource?
Each under-crossing is costing us $6-15 million. We need at least 10 new crossings to replace those used before double tracking.
ReplyDeleteAdd in another 50 million for parking that is being removed by the double tracking projects here.
"The total cost of the four pedestrian underpasses is estimated to be $25.7 million."
Delete$50M for parking? At an industry standard of $6000 per space, including land cost, that's 8,333 new parking spaces.
Parking will require trenching and covering of the parking lots. It costs far more to do such parking structures and we have little choice now that we over developed the downtown area with little parking left that is damaging our business district today.
DeleteThe Santa Fe undercrossing cost $5.6 million. The El Portal undercrossing is projected to cost more than that, but I don't know the figure.
ReplyDeleteIt would be helpful if The City had a number for trenching from La Costa to just north of Encinitas Blvd.
ReplyDeleteCarlsbad's study could provide benchmarking.
Could the 1 mile stretch possiblyour cost more than 100 MUSD?
The idea of spending 5-10 % of this cost on walk-understand is ridiculous.
The underpasses do nothing to abate noise / horns / dust.
Santa Fe under crossing cost over $6 million after years of development it was completed in 2013.
ReplyDelete4 Crossing were considered when Santa Fe was designed. These 4 tunnels under our railroad estimated cost was $25 million nearly 10 years ago.
10 crossings at about $10 million each and more for parking and other infrastructure...
ReplyDeleteSounds like Trenching and Covering may be a bargain considering the advantages it brings to the community.
It's going to be 4 crossings, not 10.
ReplyDeleteThey will likely cost $30-40M total. There is no defined project or cost for parking at the ped crossings. Until there is, the cost is zero.
$30-40M is peanuts relative to the Billions required to trench (without cover--covering would add to the cost bigly). Working toward plans and funding for trenching is fine, but it will be a decade or more before anything happens, if at all.
Building the underpasses now doesn't inhibit or foreclose trenching at all, financially or from an engineering perspective.
It makes hella sense to pursue both in parallel. Thank you city council for doing the smart thing.
I want an EIR.
DeleteHundreds of millions to trench and cover and if done right it would pay for itself over time.
DeleteBetter than throwing the same amount of money away for a half baked solution of a dozen tunnels under our railroad.
Go for the long term solution as it is not only more cost effective to trench and cover but safer for the public and if done correctly with less environmental impact.
Yes, lets do an EIR! But our public railroad NCTD refuses to do it because they know what damages will be revealed!
Get Elon Musk down here with his tunneler. He could get it done quickly and efficiently. Oh, I forgot he isn't the government. Drain the mini swamps we have in San Diego and Encinitas and get a government that works for the people and not the other way around.
ReplyDeleteTrench, no cover lagoon to lagoon. Adjusted for inflation from the city's study IDs $200 million as the liberally estimated cost, including four vehicle crossings and eight ped/bike crossings.
ReplyDeleteThat's in keeping with Solana's cost, adjusting for inflation, its shorter length, one vehicle crossing and three ped/bike crossings.
Nowhere near billions, 7:10.
The Montgomery, El Portal and Hillcrest undercrossings were estimated to average $6.4 million each. The Santa Fe crossing cost $5.6 million.
What study?
DeletePalo Alto is looking at over a Billion for just the southern half (2 miles).
https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2014/10/10/study-caltrain-trench-could-cost-1-billion
I want an EIR for each underpass.
Delete11:04, why?
DeleteIn Palo Alto the 2% option is half the $1 billion price quoted for the 1% option. The 1% option adds another 10,000 ft. of trenching. That's almost 2 miles.
DeleteTo spend many millions to build additional undercrossings or overcrossings is financial foolishness when the money could go to trenching. Let's start with the Leucadia section.
Get the Big Cheese Lossan corridor guy with Deep Community Roots on it. It could be his signature achievement.
DeleteOur public railroad agency NCTD with SANDAG support refused to do any EIR on the expansion of the railroad here. They knew if they did then their plans would be squashed because of the negative environmental impacts on this sensitive coastal corridor.
Delete10:29 The city had a study done in 2000. It considered several options. Dropping the tracks below grade was one of them. Ask the city clerk for the link, or go to city hall and read the hard copy.
DeleteWhoever is saying billions to put the tracks in a trench from lagoon to lagoon is off by hundreds of millions of dollars.
Of course lowering the tracks would be expensive, but the benefits outweigh the cost.
Covering the trench is unnecessary and would greatly increase the cost. For that reason, Solana and Alameda tracks are not covered.
You mean muy macho Tony, 4:15? All talk, no cajones!
DeleteSolana Beach went out and got the Federal money in the early 1990's that was needed to trench the tracks. No discussion of trenching the tracks can be had until the city or its reps have put into motion the effort to apply for federal money to trench the tracks. And hint, California not real popular in DC right now.
Delete-MGJ
Covering the trench is necessary to re-connect our community seperated by our public owned railroad that ignores the damages the expansion of this railroad does to the community.
DeletePut in a parkway, parking and more.. and the covering of our railroad will pay for itself over time.
Sure doesn't help when the city's Mayor writes hit pieces on the city's Federal Rep. With fed help, Encinitas got appropriations for needed sand last year,as did Oceanside. Good luck getting anything from the Feds when Mayor goes out of her way to give the finger to our Rep and city council members host fundraisers for his opponent.
DeleteWe need at least 10 crossings. I would like to see more than that.
ReplyDeleteAnd at the cost it is seriously stupid to bot consider the trenching and covering of these tracks.
Another person died today on the train tracks. It is sad we let our railroad be a hazard to our citizens and environment.
Most of the railroad tracks in Southern and Central California are not fenced off. Tracks back up to housing.
ReplyDeleteMost of the railroads in SoCal near the beach do not have fences blocking off access...
ReplyDeleteWhere is our Coastal City Council members that manage NCTD? Why have they not stood up for the local citizens that have there quality of life damaged by the expansion of our railroads without adequate infrastructure put in place to protect the local citizens...
This is a travesty. Trench and Cover the tracks!
There quality of life is like here quality of life, just not as close.
DeleteIf fences go up by day, tear them down at night...
DeleteJust take 1/100th of what is spent on destroying lives in Iraq and Afgan. and you could pay for the cut and cover and send every kid in Encinitas to Havard.
ReplyDeleteThe money is there considering money has been free for over 10 years now.
News yesterday stated we wasted $28 Million buying woodland camouflage uniforms for the Afghan Army (in a desert)... LOL, after we spent $43 million for one auto gas station in Afghanistan.
DeleteYet we cannot fix our infrastructure like trenching and covering our public railroad or our schools.
Does anybody see anything wrong with this?
7:35 Why do you want to trench and cover our schools? Maybe for protection from North Korea?
DeleteGovernment contractors making the big bucks - insider deals. And the Trump Administration is thinking of sending more troops to Afghanistan - be sure to have the body bags ordered!
DeleteMuir asked the council to bring back an agenda item to review undergrounding the tracks in order to have public discussions, with current data and opportunities and to get the council to make a public statement on their postion. They other 4 council members said NO, not interested!
ReplyDeleteI propose that 2 council members be placed on 24 hour body parts recovery duty, until the train is in a trench. This way they will understand the impact that suicide by train has on everyone. An arm here, a leg there. Hand/foot scattered over hells half acre...
ReplyDeleteThe council members would rotate this duty without any pay increase.
Another suicide by train today in Leucadia.
DeleteI understand the need to push for trenching or tunneling, but what does suicide have to do with it?
DeleteIf someone want to kill themselves they will find a way.
Nothing, other than a train was involved. That ruffle your feather or something?
Delete4:12, are you aware of the incredibly large sums of federal money it requires to trench the tracks? One more time, THE TRENCHING WILL NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT A LARGE PORTION OF FEDERAL MONEY COMING INTO ENCINITAS.
ReplyDelete3:29 No kidding, really?
DeleteDo you actually think you're introducing new information here?
How much of the $6.5 billion SANDAG will spend on the North Coast transportation corridor by 2040 is federal money?
The Feds piss away more in a day than you or I can spend in a life time. Make it happen...
DeleteThe sums of money needed to cover and trench our railroad is small considering the need and benefit.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, Federal money is needed and should be spent on projects such as this that has national implications.
This is the most important railroad corridor in the nation. It should be made an example of so others could follow in responsible development and progress.
Encinitas hotbed of crime?? Both Encinitas Vons have after dark security guards...
ReplyDeleteWhat?.... Smart to have security though
ReplyDeleteWho's the idiot at the city that approved 2 music events on the 101 on the same day??
ReplyDeleteCity of Encinitas = Failure
Right.
DeleteIt's bad here.
You should go.
It was hazardous being a pedestrian on Saturday - people drive like they're blind!
DeleteIts fair to say Encinitas moonlight beach area was busy yesterday.
ReplyDeleteBut all for a great cause.
So since all those tourist and people are enjoying our coastline and downtown area, why should they pay some fees to help with the operations and maintainence of the beach and downtown area?
Why should us residents pick up all the costs for our lifeguard services and maintaining the beautiful coast line.I recommend the City making Moonlight beach parking lot and all the surrounding parking area, paid parking like Del Mar, Solana Beach, Carlsbad, and Oceanside.
I also recommend a policy that all the revenue collected by the paid parking be budgeted for capital project to improve the infrastructure along the coast. I should not just go into General Fund.
It was busy indeed. So was the pollution. Go drive east past Quail and then head back west. You will see brown fog. Totally gross.
DeleteTen dollar parking in the lot, and all parking meters within a mile of each beach.
DeleteThe Keith Harrison property at the north end of 2nd St. was charging $25 cash to park there.
ReplyDeleteNice! Cash income that doesn't need to be reported.
DeleteMy old home town issued one parking sticker per household. Beach parking was free with the sticker. Everyone else pays.
DeleteEncinitas hotbed of crime??
ReplyDeletePolice action on the 101 in Leucadia !!
3 officers 3 vechicles, 1 volunteer patrol, tow truck, 1 BMW and 1 Asian woman.
Maybe she knew Kung Fu?
DeleteMaybe they ran out of Pink Boxes at the Leucadia Donut Shop.
DeleteThere is some heavy duty censoring going on. The suspicions that this blog has changed hands gains credence.
ReplyDelete9:26am. Thomas Roger Ogden. Freedom of speech is permitted here and protected by the Constitution.
ReplyDeleteYour hate speech is not and we will protect our treasured community of Encinitas from the likes of you every chance we get.
Get used to it. Find somewhere else to spread your sickness. Go away and stay away. Thanks WC for taking his trash out again and again and again and again.
City council final budget review now. Meeting started at 4. More damn narrowing of traffic lanes.
ReplyDeleteThere is some heavy duty censoring going on. The suspicions that this blog has changed hands gains credence.
ReplyDelete1:09pm Only in your sick mind Thomas Roger Ogden.
ReplyDeleteYou are one depraved person who cannot recognize the difference between constitutionally protected free speech and your hate speech.
We however do and will call you out every time.
Thanks WC for all you provide to our fine community.
9:26 PM Goose step in cadence to the marshall song, brown shirt.
Delete3:30pm You are more of the goose-stepping hate mongering variety than those of us here in Encinitas who can recognize the subversive rantings of your sick mind for what they are.
ReplyDeleteYou will be called out every time you invade this local resource with your demented ramblings. Thanks WC