Roundabouts at Hymettus and Hermes where there's very little cross traffic but no roundabouts at Orpheus, Piraeus, Urania, Saxony, Quail Gardens, Gardenview or El Cam Real where there's much more cross traffic.
Why put them where there's not enough room, they're not needed and accomplish nothing positive?
Because change means "the change in your pocket" according to our former city manager, who was also a big fan of "strategic planning". Roundabouts get me hot. Yet I am a very pious citizen and know that they save money and are the best choice when it comes to National security and the safety of my children. They also help me earn money while sitting on the couch all day earning eating Cheetos, picking my rectum, and ingesting the psychoactive of my choice.
Perhaps we should insert an obelisk or two inside some of these roundabouts to double duty as a legacy to our local super hero of choice and prohibit illegal crossings of the roundabout. We could dress them up like the kook and create more traffic clogging events like 5k walks and marathons based on the existance these new landmarks. Oh please say yes!
A 10 year study of collisions, done by the City, showed no traffic calming is needed at intersections where roundabouts are currently planned.
Because roundabouts work at some intersections, with throughway cross-streets, where north/south traffic is more equal to east/west traffic, does not mean they would work here. The traffic backs up between the stop sign at Hygeia and the roundabout at Hymettus, in particular, also back up from traffic signal at Orpheus, all on Leucadia Blvd.
I do drive Leucadia Blvd, five days a week, and the roundabouts with a stop sign inbetween, as well as 10 traffic signals, is an engineering disaster.
Totally disagree. The LB circles work great. They nearly never backup, and 80% of the time you don't even have to stop at all from any direction. Not so for the stop and the lights. Those intersections backup all the time, and force drivers to a halt.
Since neither of us is a traffic engineer, my opinion counts just as much as yours. I've seen a lot of claims on here about what the experts say that are just plain bogus. If you go read the DOT source material, they strongly encourage the proliferation of roundabouts for a whole host of reasons. I would encourage people to read some of the source material on their own, rather than relying on the quote mining, misinterpretation, and out of context hackery that too often gets posted here.
There is real research and data out there, and the engineers know more than you do.
Yes, 7:29, "where appropriate and properly engineered" are the keywords in the video.
The point is those we have are two small and the traffic in two directions overwhelms the traffic in the other two directions. That says the roundabouts are not appropriate and not properly engineered.
Magnify those faults by 10 and you have the roundabouts proposed at T intersections on Leucadia 101.
Seriously, though, there's tons of good information in there on site selection and proper engineering. If you are going to claim that mistakes are being made in the design of Streetscape, surely you didn't just pull those claims out of your a$$, right? I'm sure you can educate us all on where you found inconsistencies between specific DOT guidelines and Streetscape.
Don't leave us hanging! We are all eager to learn from you!
The General Plan defines a major arterial as a four-lane road. Streetscape reduces the four to two but claims it's still a major arterial.
Streetscape claims the roundabouts at six T intersections are for traffic calming. Five of the six would be in 8/10 mile at one end. The sixth is 1.2 miles away. That leaves 1.7 of the 2.5 miles as it is now.
That's not traffic calming. It's congestion at six T intersections, two of which are private roads.
Try being rational and looking at the reality on the ground. Your ideology doesn't fit.
Encinitas’ circulation roadways are those arterial roadways designated and designed to carry through traffic, provide access to the regional freeways, or collect traffic from local streets and developments (See Figure C-1: Circulation Plan)."
Nothing about four lanes. It also names the roads in this category, most of which are two lane roads.
"The key north-south arterial streets in Encinitas include:"
• Coast Highway 101, (was always two lanes south of K street)
3:10, the comment by 1:06 (you?) is still incorrect: "The General Plan defines a major arterial as a four-lane road." No it doesn't. As 2:03 correctly points out, the General Plan does NOT limit major arterials to four lane roads.
The Screetscape EIR correctly refers to North Coast Hwy 101, which has four lanes in that location, as a major arterial. But it doesn't have the "major arterial" status because of the four lanes.
"North Coast Highway 101 is classified as a Major Arterial (four-lane roadway) in the Circulation Element of the City of Encinitas General Plan and depicted in cross sections of the N101SP as a four-lane roadway."
". . .descriptions of width and facilities are offered as non-exclusive alternatives: variation in design is expected, depending on different community design characteristics, different optional facilities (e.g., on-street parking, sidewalks vs. pathways, bicycle lanes or paths, extra parkway or median landscape treatment, etc.)"
Translation: number of lanes in the diagrams are not a requirement, and will vary. Thus, most of the arterials are actually two lanes.
What part of ". . .descriptions of width and facilities are offered as non-exclusive alternatives: variation in design is expected" don't you understand?
I routinely drive the Santa Fe roundabout. It's been problematic from the beginning -- too small a radius and blind because of the slope and raised planter. Take a look in the photo at the tire marks on the curb. It's not just because of DUIs and cell phones.
This past week has been especially crazy. I was behind a car going west making a left turn that stopped dead in the roundabout blocking my exit, spooked by a car going east. Another time going east I was stopped by six cars led by a car frozen because of a long line of cars going west after the light at the Scripps/Vons intersection turned green. On another occasion a car stopped because a car going east on Devonshire was approaching. Both didn't seem to know what to do.
Roundabouts work fine with light traffic. They fail when traffic gets heavy. Traffic stops flowing easily with many cars ending up stopping. Inevitably busy roundabouts get stops signs or traffic lights.
On Wednesday the city council will consider traffic improvements on Birmingham between I-5 and San Elijo. A roundabout at Newcastle is proposed. This will be in front of the New Balance store and the post office. More craziness is on the way.
Santa Fe was a mess before the round about went in. I drive it everyday and works great except when you get someone that doesn't know how to drive in a round about. I have to admit I don't know what the problem is in front of the new balance store. Why do anything?
A left turn onto Birmingham from Newcastle is chancy due to the cross traffic volume. Because the westbound traffic is consistent and hurdling downhill, the left turn problem gets stickier. Traffic in and out of the adjacent businesses further complicates things.
a roundabout is intended to slow traffic down and allow continuous movement through an intersection. In many ways it is better than a regular intersection in terms of roadway safety.
A roundabout doesn't kill yield signs. Stupid and intoxicated drivers do.
The argument that roundabouts are stupid because on one accident should examine citywide crash data and see where the problems are. We would all appreciate your feedback.
If you are too lazy, then let me tell you. Most accidents occur in areas where there are high speeds and conflicts between other vehicles. Not areas with roundabouts.
The roundabout on Santa Fe is fine, used it millions of times. I think driver's license tests are too lax or something, no one knows how to drive. And do cars even come with turn signals any more?
Streetscapes roundabouts are brainless. Lets hope the business owners and and others who have to drive on the 101 get used to more exhaust from stalled traffic than we ever get now.
The first roundabout goes in at El Portal, and as such, will not be an example of controlling traffic flow like the six north of Leucadia Blvd. will be. It also does not require eminent domain to take away private property.
Take a census of supporters and detractors now. Whatever sample was taken a decade ago is irrelevant to the current plan. That was before most of these roundabouts were even part of the plan.
And to Morgan, the current plan is not 4A like you recently stated. Wake up. As a mouthpiece for this, you should know better. Then again, the lack of knowledge by the most vocal pushers, is about on par.
Roundabouts have been around for thousands of years. If those old farts in Coronado can drive roundabouts so can the hip young gente of Encinitas and Cardiff. Any driving of a roundabout is easy unless your are drunk, stoned, or blind. Don't fear roundabouts, fear the other drivers.
Sure, they're great where they're appropriate and properly engineered. Those we have in Encinitas and those proposed for Leucadia 101 don't meet the criteria.
But cities often end up with BOTH! It's not an either/or situation. Look at Leucadia Blvd, with two roundabouts, a four way stop sign, and ten traffic signals between 101 and El Camino Real.
I live on Hymettus. The "roundabout" there is a defacto stop sign for me trying to get onto Leucadia Blvd. It's the only safe way to do it. I've nearly gotten nailed many times. Drivers are barrelling up and down the hill and rarely glance to their left to see if they need yield to you in the circle. They are completely oblivious to the yield sign, it's like it isn't there. It's just an annoying speed bump as they speed up and down Leucadia Blvd.
These roundabout are too small to work properly. I've been to Europe where the roundabouts are much larger and seem to work much better. Even the roundabout at the north end of Carlsbad works better because it is bigger.
Exactly right, 10:03. You hit the nail squarely on the head.
The only part you left out is about the drivers who are effectively turning left but don't signal that. The other drivers can't tell which way the non-signaling driver is going until they almost get T-boned.
Round and round we go with the stupid idea of putting these traffic obstructions to be on a major arterial.
Del Mar and Solana Beach knew better and rejected the idea of putting roundabouts on their 101, and yet because of a vocal minority of real estate interests, here in Encinitas, this persists.
Take a poll now of businesses on the 101 and residents west of the 5. Whatever opinion was taken a decade ago is irrelevant with the many noticed and unnoticed changes that streestcam has gone through over the decade.
I like roundabouts - they work! I really wish they would put them on Rancho Santa Fe between Encinitas Blvd and Avenida la Posta. It would make rush hour traffic go soooo much smoother!
Sure, they're great where they're appropriate and properly engineered. Those we have in Encinitas and those proposed for Leucadia 101 don't meet the criteria.
I always thought the Olivenhain locals liked the stop signs to discourage people from Carlsbad and San Marcos from using RSF Road as a shortcut to I-5 South.
Where in the DOT technical advisory documents on site selection and design of roundabouts are their guidelines that are not being followed in the Streetscape plans?
Here's a link to the technical docs: https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabouts/#tech
If you are claiming that the DOT supports your contention that Streetscape is making mistakes, then you must be basing that on specific information in those documents.
Show us where.
(wink, wink. We both know you won't, because you are full of BS.)
"CLOSELY SPACED INTERSECTIONS Roundabouts balance traffic flows and manage queue lengths between closely spaced intersections. The example shown in Exhibit 3-11 serves as the intersection of three streets configured into a pair of roundabouts."
One aspect that makes the idea of 5 roundabouts between leucadia blvd and la Costa unique is the width of the corridor. With the rails on the east and ocean on the west, the width is one block. Northbounders are going to pour onto Neptune seeking smooth flow. Is this what the city wants? To dump cars onto a street with a mess of bikes, runners, dog walkers, and what should be a 10 mph road? Neptune and those living west of the 101 are seriously boned by the roundabout nonsense.
It's five from Jupiter to La Costa, and besides northbound on Neptune, both directions will divert to Vulcan in big numbers. So says the traffic study.
Bottom feeder, you are welcome to as many of these traffic flow obstructions as can be brought forward for RSF Rd. if you believe it would improve the current situation.
The 101 is something else entirely, being a major arterial.
Guerrilla nailed it recently with how stupid some have become over roundabouts. Sure they work under certain circumstances, but that is not what we have on the 101.
Take a poll of supporters and detractors west of the 5. This scam posited by a few, does not represent the community at large.
If the city won't do it, the residents will.
Stephanie Kellar please realize this needs to be vetted. To be specific, the roundabouts and their locations needs public approval. We are the stakeholders that matter. The mainstreet org's are packed with real estate interests that serve themselves and should be defunded. Let them operate as they do on their own dollar.
I don't see that much difference between RSF Rd on any weekday between 7:30am and 8:30am (southbound) and 4pm to 6pm (northbound) - it can take upwards of 20 minutes to drive that stretch - and the "major arterial 101". That said, if the current configuration doesn't work, change it to something that does, but don't just trash the idea. They actually do work! Oh, and I do appreciate your acquiescence to my request. Thank you!
Charis is OUT at L101. Was she shown the curb or did she leave of her own free will?? Perhaps now the organization will return to it's roots and promote the improvement of Hwy 101 and not waste time with silly projects like painting SDGE transformers and music festivals.
Bottom feeder really? Comparing the traffic on RSF Rd with the 101? What are you smoking out there in Olivenhain? Must be the good stuff. Not even close.
Trashing the placement of the roundabouts on the 101 is deserving, considering the ignorance that has brought us to the current situation and the "convenience" of their placing them where they are. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Take a poll before this goes any further. The majority of businesses and residents most affected does not want these obstructions as currently being promoted. The pushers don't want this to happen because they know they are on the losing end. The numbers of supporters do not add up to much if anything and they know it. They don't know much more, as has been proven time and time again, when they have been asked direct questions about the placement of these ill conceived traffic flow obstructions.
Take a poll and let us all move on with the acceptable parts of this plan.
9:02- we SHOULD be installing roundabouts at all stop lights but there are no deep thinkers in this town. Only small minded people with little to say and less to do.
We should be replacing the time wasting fatality causing traffic signals with roundabouts, but the City doesn't really care about saving lives.
Its more interested in trophy feel good projects like constructing a hug concrete block in the surf zone on the City's most busy beach area, so that a few "life guards" and cops can hang out on bikini patrol (cost tax payers $4 million dollars), or buying a run down toxic school for $10 million that could have been purchased for $4 million. The lost opportunity for that wasted $10 million dollars by bad staff and City Council decisions resulted in $10 million unavailable for real improvments that would save lives daily like roundabouts. $10 million could have probably converted about 12 signals to roundabouts and alot of people would be alive today to go down to Moonlight beach and watch the sunrise.
But no, the City's focus will be how to raise more tax money to pay for the pension debt caused by past City Managers and City Councils (Jerome being the granddaddy of financial pension give aways to the unions- and MUIR being the recipient of the big cash pensions provided by Jerome and the like).
Mikey, you just can't resist meddling in something that you have nothing to do with from your hovel in O'side and as per your usual mean spirited self calling our locals names.
Your inner juvenile is showing again. Spare us your name calling. In fact, spare us your anything, as your reputation precedes you everywhere you go in our community.
By the way does anyone else find the new 5 North off ramp onto Manchester to be any improvement from the previous one? It is still a very sharp turn, are there a lot of accidents on this off ramp?
Add just a marginal degree of difficulty and some people will crash - the law of the road.
ReplyDeleteIf you are smarter than the dumbest person in France, you should be fine.
ReplyDeleteJust don't drink, and put your damned phone away.
Ours are too small. They're barely big enough to be called roundabouts. That's why they create more problems than they solve.
ReplyDeleteToo small?
DeleteYou need to travel more. See things working with your own eyes.
https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/images/7/75/Tiny_mini_roundabout_1_-_Coppermine_-_4700.JPG
Laughable example.
DeleteNo raised, landscaped island in the middle. Do you really think people drive around the painted circle? They just drive straight over the top.
The problem with roundabout ideologues is they don't think straight, they don't look at the reality.
Two-or-more-lane roundabouts at busy, four-way intersections with clear lines of sight can make sense.
Ours are too small. They achieve nothing. They're more a hindrance than a help.
11:53,
DeleteI bet you formulated that theory while waiting in line for the stop sign on Leucadia at Hygeia.
What theory is that, 1:26?
DeletePeople who regularly drive that section of Leucadia Blvd get it.
DeleteGet what?
DeleteRoundabouts at Hymettus and Hermes where there's very little cross traffic but no roundabouts at Orpheus, Piraeus, Urania, Saxony, Quail Gardens, Gardenview or El Cam Real where there's much more cross traffic.
Why put them where there's not enough room, they're not needed and accomplish nothing positive?
Because change means "the change in your pocket" according to our former city manager, who was also a big fan of "strategic planning". Roundabouts get me hot. Yet I am a very pious citizen and know that they save money and are the best choice when it comes to National security and the safety of my children. They also help me earn money while sitting on the couch all day earning eating Cheetos, picking my rectum, and ingesting the psychoactive of my choice.
DeletePerhaps we should insert an obelisk or two inside some of these roundabouts to double duty as a legacy to our local super hero of choice and prohibit illegal crossings of the roundabout. We could dress them up like the kook and create more traffic clogging events like 5k walks and marathons based on the existance these new landmarks. Oh please say yes!
DeleteBetter than the many fender benders at regular intersections. A bent sign is not a case against round abouts.
ReplyDeleteA 10 year study of collisions, done by the City, showed no traffic calming is needed at intersections where roundabouts are currently planned.
DeleteBecause roundabouts work at some intersections, with throughway cross-streets, where north/south traffic is more equal to east/west traffic, does not mean they would work here. The traffic backs up between the stop sign at Hygeia and the roundabout at Hymettus, in particular, also back up from traffic signal at Orpheus, all on Leucadia Blvd.
I do drive Leucadia Blvd, five days a week, and the roundabouts with a stop sign inbetween, as well as 10 traffic signals, is an engineering disaster.
Totally disagree. The LB circles work great. They nearly never backup, and 80% of the time you don't even have to stop at all from any direction. Not so for the stop and the lights. Those intersections backup all the time, and force drivers to a halt.
DeleteSince neither of us is a traffic engineer, my opinion counts just as much as yours. I've seen a lot of claims on here about what the experts say that are just plain bogus. If you go read the DOT source material, they strongly encourage the proliferation of roundabouts for a whole host of reasons. I would encourage people to read some of the source material on their own, rather than relying on the quote mining, misinterpretation, and out of context hackery that too often gets posted here.
There is real research and data out there, and the engineers know more than you do.
DOT Roundabout Video
Yes, 7:29, "where appropriate and properly engineered" are the keywords in the video.
DeleteThe point is those we have are two small and the traffic in two directions overwhelms the traffic in the other two directions. That says the roundabouts are not appropriate and not properly engineered.
Magnify those faults by 10 and you have the roundabouts proposed at T intersections on Leucadia 101.
Drop the ideology and look at the reality.
Is these your subjective opinions as a non-expert? Or are you an engineer of some kind?
DeleteAre your opinions supported in the DOT source material linked above? Where?
No ideology here. The opposite, in fact. I'm asking for the objective data and research on which you base your argument.
9:05 quoted your source. You're an ideologue who is blindly supporting something that has no positive effect.
DeleteHa ha ha.
DeleteThat's a joke, right?
Seriously, though, there's tons of good information in there on site selection and proper engineering. If you are going to claim that mistakes are being made in the design of Streetscape, surely you didn't just pull those claims out of your a$$, right? I'm sure you can educate us all on where you found inconsistencies between specific DOT guidelines and Streetscape.
Don't leave us hanging! We are all eager to learn from you!
The General Plan defines a major arterial as a four-lane road. Streetscape reduces the four to two but claims it's still a major arterial.
DeleteStreetscape claims the roundabouts at six T intersections are for traffic calming. Five of the six would be in 8/10 mile at one end. The sixth is 1.2 miles away. That leaves 1.7 of the 2.5 miles as it is now.
That's not traffic calming. It's congestion at six T intersections, two of which are private roads.
Try being rational and looking at the reality on the ground. Your ideology doesn't fit.
1:06,
DeleteYou win the Full Pinocchio / Pants on Fire award.
The Circulation Element of the General Plan says:
Circulation Roadways
Encinitas’ circulation roadways are those arterial roadways designated and
designed to carry through traffic, provide access to the regional freeways, or
collect traffic from local streets and developments (See Figure C-1: Circulation
Plan)."
Nothing about four lanes. It also names the roads in this category, most of which are two lane roads.
"The key north-south arterial streets in Encinitas include:"
• Coast Highway 101, (was always two lanes south of K street)
• Vulcan Avenue/San Elijo Avenue/Manchester Avenue (two lane)
• Saxony Road (two lanes)
• El Camino Real/Manchester Avenue, (up to six lanes)
• Rancho Santa Fe Road/Manchester Avenue, (two lanes)
2:03
DeleteQuoting the Streetscape EIR:
"North Coast Highway 101 within the Project corridor is designated as a 4-lane Major Arterial in the City General Plan Circulation Element . . ."
Stop displaying your ignorance. You're embarrassing yourself.
3:10, the comment by 1:06 (you?) is still incorrect: "The General Plan defines a major arterial as a four-lane road." No it doesn't. As 2:03 correctly points out, the General Plan does NOT limit major arterials to four lane roads.
DeleteThe Screetscape EIR correctly refers to North Coast Hwy 101, which has four lanes in that location, as a major arterial. But it doesn't have the "major arterial" status because of the four lanes.
I know, reading is hard
"North Coast Highway 101 is classified as a Major Arterial (four-lane roadway) in the Circulation Element of the City of Encinitas General Plan and depicted in cross sections of the N101SP as a four-lane roadway."
DeleteSee for yourself:
https://www.encinitasca.gov/Government/Departments/Public-Works/Engineering/Capital-Improvement-Section/Leucadia-Streetscape-Project
". . .descriptions of
Deletewidth and facilities are offered as non-exclusive
alternatives: variation in design is expected,
depending on different community design
characteristics, different optional facilities (e.g.,
on-street parking, sidewalks vs. pathways, bicycle lanes
or paths, extra parkway or median landscape
treatment, etc.)"
Translation: number of lanes in the diagrams are not a requirement, and will vary. Thus, most of the arterials are actually two lanes.
Major Arterial = four lanes.
DeleteSee that word "Major" in front of the word "Arterial"?
8:07,
DeleteWhat part of ". . .descriptions of
width and facilities are offered as non-exclusive alternatives: variation in design is expected" don't you understand?
I routinely drive the Santa Fe roundabout. It's been problematic from the beginning -- too small a radius and blind because of the slope and raised planter. Take a look in the photo at the tire marks on the curb. It's not just because of DUIs and cell phones.
ReplyDeleteThis past week has been especially crazy. I was behind a car going west making a left turn that stopped dead in the roundabout blocking my exit, spooked by a car going east. Another time going east I was stopped by six cars led by a car frozen because of a long line of cars going west after the light at the Scripps/Vons intersection turned green. On another occasion a car stopped because a car going east on Devonshire was approaching. Both didn't seem to know what to do.
Roundabouts work fine with light traffic. They fail when traffic gets heavy. Traffic stops flowing easily with many cars ending up stopping. Inevitably busy roundabouts get stops signs or traffic lights.
On Wednesday the city council will consider traffic improvements on Birmingham between I-5 and San Elijo. A roundabout at Newcastle is proposed. This will be in front of the New Balance store and the post office. More craziness is on the way.
A car going east on Devonshire?
DeleteI don't think the roundabout was the problem. More likely it was the fact that Devonshire doesn't go east.
Santa Fe was a mess before the round about went in. I drive it everyday and works great except when you get someone that doesn't know how to drive in a round about. I have to admit I don't know what the problem is in front of the new balance store. Why do anything?
DeleteA left turn onto Birmingham from Newcastle is chancy due to the cross traffic volume. Because the westbound traffic is consistent and hurdling downhill, the left turn problem gets stickier. Traffic in and out of the adjacent businesses further complicates things.
DeleteA roundabout there would not solve the problem.
a roundabout is intended to slow traffic down and allow continuous movement through an intersection. In many ways it is better than a regular intersection in terms of roadway safety.
DeleteA roundabout doesn't kill yield signs. Stupid and intoxicated drivers do.
The argument that roundabouts are stupid because on one accident should examine citywide crash data and see where the problems are. We would all appreciate your feedback.
If you are too lazy, then let me tell you. Most accidents occur in areas where there are high speeds and conflicts between other vehicles. Not areas with roundabouts.
The roundabout on Santa Fe is fine, used it millions of times. I think driver's license tests are too lax or something, no one knows how to drive. And do cars even come with turn signals any more?
DeleteWho knew roundabouts are so complicated?
ReplyDeleteAnybody with a brain.
ReplyDeleteStreetscapes roundabouts are brainless. Lets hope the business owners and and others who have to drive on the 101 get used to more exhaust from stalled traffic than we ever get now.
The first roundabout goes in at El Portal, and as such, will not be an example of controlling traffic flow like the six north of Leucadia Blvd. will be. It also does not require eminent domain to take away private property.
Take a census of supporters and detractors now. Whatever sample was taken a decade ago is irrelevant to the current plan. That was before most of these roundabouts were even part of the plan.
And to Morgan, the current plan is not 4A like you recently stated. Wake up. As a mouthpiece for this, you should know better. Then again, the lack of knowledge by the most vocal pushers, is about on par.
Take a poll now.
Six are proposed for Leucadia 101. One at El Portal, five from Jupiter to La Costa Ave.
DeleteEl Portal and Jupiter are 1.2 miles apart.
At least the sign yielded.
ReplyDeleteRoundabouts have been around for thousands of years. If those old farts in Coronado can drive roundabouts so can the hip young gente of Encinitas and Cardiff. Any driving of a roundabout is easy unless your are drunk, stoned, or blind. Don't fear roundabouts, fear the other drivers.
ReplyDeleteSure, they're great where they're appropriate and properly engineered. Those we have in Encinitas and those proposed for Leucadia 101 don't meet the criteria.
Delete9:11- your opinion is irrelevant, nothing you say or write is based on facts. Only your feeling count. There is nothing more worthless on this blog.
Deletebetter a yield sign in the roundabout than a street light in a regular intersection.
ReplyDeleteBut cities often end up with BOTH! It's not an either/or situation. Look at Leucadia Blvd, with two roundabouts, a four way stop sign, and ten traffic signals between 101 and El Camino Real.
DeleteI live on Hymettus. The "roundabout" there is a defacto stop sign for me trying to get onto Leucadia Blvd. It's the only safe way to do it. I've nearly gotten nailed many times. Drivers are barrelling up and down the hill and rarely glance to their left to see if they need yield to you in the circle. They are completely oblivious to the yield sign, it's like it isn't there. It's just an annoying speed bump as they speed up and down Leucadia Blvd.
ReplyDeleteThese roundabout are too small to work properly. I've been to Europe where the roundabouts are much larger and seem to work much better. Even the roundabout at the north end of Carlsbad works better because it is bigger.
One size doesn't fit all in this case.
Exactly right, 10:03. You hit the nail squarely on the head.
DeleteThe only part you left out is about the drivers who are effectively turning left but don't signal that. The other drivers can't tell which way the non-signaling driver is going until they almost get T-boned.
Round and round we go with the stupid idea of putting these traffic obstructions to be on a major arterial.
ReplyDeleteDel Mar and Solana Beach knew better and rejected the idea of putting roundabouts on their 101, and yet because of a vocal minority of real estate interests, here in Encinitas, this persists.
Take a poll now of businesses on the 101 and residents west of the 5. Whatever opinion was taken a decade ago is irrelevant with the many noticed and unnoticed changes that streestcam has gone through over the decade.
Take the poll.
I like roundabouts - they work! I really wish they would put them on Rancho Santa Fe between Encinitas Blvd and Avenida la Posta. It would make rush hour traffic go soooo much smoother!
ReplyDelete- The Sculpin
Sure, they're great where they're appropriate and properly engineered. Those we have in Encinitas and those proposed for Leucadia 101 don't meet the criteria.
DeleteBased on . . .
DeleteDOT
DeleteI always thought the Olivenhain locals liked the stop signs to discourage people from Carlsbad and San Marcos from using RSF Road as a shortcut to I-5 South.
DeleteWhere, exactly? I keep asking that question and no one will answer. It's so odd and confusing--almost like you don't have an answer. Is that possible?
DeleteWhere what, exactly? What's the question?
DeleteWhere in the DOT technical advisory documents on site selection and design of roundabouts are their guidelines that are not being followed in the Streetscape plans?
DeleteHere's a link to the technical docs: https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabouts/#tech
If you are claiming that the DOT supports your contention that Streetscape is making mistakes, then you must be basing that on specific information in those documents.
Show us where.
(wink, wink. We both know you won't, because you are full of BS.)
Please point out the diagrams or photos of roundabouts at T intersections in the documentation.
DeleteWhile you're at it, show where DOT recommends placing one T intersection roundabout 230 feet from another one.
Done.
DeleteRequest 1:
Roundabouts: An Informational Guide, Second Edition
Chapter 6: Geometric Design
Exhibit 6-11
"As this figure implies, it is desirable for roundabout T-intersections to intersect as close to 90°as possible."
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/exit.cfm?link=http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/nchrp/nchrp_rpt_672.pdf
Request 2:
ibid
Chapter 3: Planning
Exhibit 3-11: Closely Spaced Intersections, Buffalo, NY
"CLOSELY SPACED INTERSECTIONS Roundabouts balance traffic flows and manage queue lengths between closely spaced intersections. The example shown in Exhibit 3-11 serves as the intersection of three streets configured into a pair of roundabouts."
The link doesn't work.
DeleteOne aspect that makes the idea of 5 roundabouts between leucadia blvd and la Costa unique is the width of the corridor. With the rails on the east and ocean on the west, the width is one block. Northbounders are going to pour onto Neptune seeking smooth flow.
DeleteIs this what the city wants? To dump cars onto a street with a mess of bikes, runners, dog walkers, and what should be a 10 mph road?
Neptune and those living west of the 101 are seriously boned by the roundabout nonsense.
It's five from Jupiter to La Costa, and besides northbound on Neptune, both directions will divert to Vulcan in big numbers. So says the traffic study.
Delete7:04, it's the top link here.
DeleteBottom feeder, you are welcome to as many of these traffic flow obstructions as can be brought forward for RSF Rd. if you believe it would improve the current situation.
ReplyDeleteThe 101 is something else entirely, being a major arterial.
Guerrilla nailed it recently with how stupid some have become over roundabouts. Sure they work under certain circumstances, but that is not what we have on the 101.
Take a poll of supporters and detractors west of the 5. This scam posited by a few, does not represent the community at large.
If the city won't do it, the residents will.
Stephanie Kellar please realize this needs to be vetted. To be specific, the roundabouts and their locations needs public approval. We are the stakeholders that matter. The mainstreet org's are packed with real estate interests that serve themselves and should be defunded. Let them operate as they do on their own dollar.
I don't see that much difference between RSF Rd on any weekday between 7:30am and 8:30am (southbound) and 4pm to 6pm (northbound) - it can take upwards of 20 minutes to drive that stretch - and the "major arterial 101". That said, if the current configuration doesn't work, change it to something that does, but don't just trash the idea. They actually do work! Oh, and I do appreciate your acquiescence to my request. Thank you!
Delete- The Sculpin
Charis is OUT at L101. Was she shown the curb or did she leave of her own free will??
DeletePerhaps now the organization will return to it's roots and promote the improvement of Hwy 101 and not waste time with silly projects like painting SDGE transformers and music festivals.
17,000 car trips per day on Leucadia 101 according to the EIR.
DeleteHow many on RSF Road through Olivenhain?
It would be 30,000 a day without the stop signs.
DeleteThe stops are designed to block the traffic pressure from Carlsbad and San Marcos.
EU comment at 1:39 is spot on.
DeleteBlakespear 128
ReplyDeleteKranz 262
Muir 305
BH 181
Mosca 149
Did I win?
The carny knows:
ReplyDeleteCatherine: 124
Tony: 268
Mark: 313
Tasha: 172
Joe: 151
Bottom feeder really? Comparing the traffic on RSF Rd with the 101? What are you smoking out there in Olivenhain? Must be the good stuff. Not even close.
ReplyDeleteTrashing the placement of the roundabouts on the 101 is deserving, considering the ignorance that has brought us to the current situation and the "convenience" of their placing them where they are. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Take a poll before this goes any further. The majority of businesses and residents most affected does not want these obstructions as currently being promoted. The pushers don't want this to happen because they know they are on the losing end. The numbers of supporters do not add up to much if anything and they know it. They don't know much more, as has been proven time and time again, when they have been asked direct questions about the placement of these ill conceived traffic flow obstructions.
Take a poll and let us all move on with the acceptable parts of this plan.
CB = 125
ReplyDeleteTK = 255
MM = 315
TBH = 175
JM = 150
the few people like the retarded redshirts and bizarre Marr should not be driving.
ReplyDeleteAll logical people prefer roundabouts instead of waiting at red lights.
Traffic Signals kill.
First comment was the best - If you are smarter than the dumbest person in France then you should be fine.
Says it all.
None of the roundabouts we have and only one of those proposed replaces a traffic signal.
DeleteIf what 8:08 says is true, why aren't we installing roundabouts at busy signaled intersections?
8:08 - anyone that lashing out at all French people is beyond ignorant - you're a stooge.
Delete7:00,
DeleteLashing out at? Okay, so, clearly you didn't get the joke.
I stand corrected. Roundabouts may be a legit problem for you, but the rest of us should still be fine.
Better?
9:02- we SHOULD be installing roundabouts at all stop lights but there are no deep thinkers in this town. Only small minded people with little to say and less to do.
Delete9:17pm has it right.
DeleteWe should be replacing the time wasting fatality causing traffic signals with roundabouts, but the City doesn't really care about saving lives.
Its more interested in trophy feel good projects like constructing a hug concrete block in the surf zone on the City's most busy beach area, so that a few "life guards" and cops can hang out on bikini patrol (cost tax payers $4 million dollars), or buying a run down toxic school for $10 million that could have been purchased for $4 million. The lost opportunity for that wasted $10 million dollars by bad staff and City Council decisions resulted in $10 million unavailable for real improvments that would save lives daily like roundabouts. $10 million could have probably converted about 12 signals to roundabouts and alot of people would be alive today to go down to Moonlight beach and watch the sunrise.
But no, the City's focus will be how to raise more tax money to pay for the pension debt caused by past City Managers and City Councils (Jerome being the granddaddy of financial pension give aways to the unions- and MUIR being the recipient of the big cash pensions provided by Jerome and the like).
Mikey, you just can't resist meddling in something that you have nothing to do with from your hovel in O'side and as per your usual mean spirited self calling our locals names.
ReplyDeleteYour inner juvenile is showing again. Spare us your name calling. In fact, spare us your anything, as your reputation precedes you everywhere you go in our community.
We need the interim stop signs on Hwy101 just like we have them on Rancho Santa Fe.
ReplyDeleteInstall 10 stops on Highway 101 and slow the I5 traffic down on Hwy101 or even better yet, get them back to I5 where they belong.
Once the City can afford it, replace the interim stops with Roundabouts.
By the way does anyone else find the new 5 North off ramp onto Manchester to be any improvement from the previous one? It is still a very sharp turn, are there a lot of accidents on this off ramp?
ReplyDeleteNo.... bring it up to Caltrans... Its their ramp.
ReplyDeleteSew them. Its the only way to get real change with Caltrans or the City of Encinitas.
8:20 joke? Sorry, I don't see any humor in your comments...suggest you stay with what you're good at - being a troll.
ReplyDelete7:23,
DeleteI accept your apology for being humorless. It was big of you to offer it.