Saturday, June 17, 2017

Stop sign to break up Vulcan Speedway

Vulcan Avenue east of the railroad tracks has long been a preferred route for locals to get north and south between Encinitas Boulevard and Leucadia Boulevard while avoiding the Coast Highway traffic and stop signs. That's about to change.

Coast News:
The Paul Ecke Central Elementary School community will get the four-way stop sign on Vulcan Avenue they have coveted for years, but the council’s decision on the issue was not unanimous. The City Council voted 3-2 in favor of the all-way stop at Vulcan and Union Street. Deputy Mayor Tony Kranz and council members Tasha Boerner Horvath and Joe Mosca voted for the stop sign, which they said was long overdue and would keep kids safe.
This is kind of weird though:
Mayor Catherine Blakespear and Councilman Mark Muir voted against it after suggesting the item be returned to the Traffic Commission to consider alternatives short of an all-way stop sign, which they said would create unnecessary vehicle stops that would create added pollution next to the elementary school.
Has there ever been a study that shows that a stop sign in front of an elementary school creates a measurable increase in air pollution in classrooms or on the playground? Where are Blakespear and Muir getting their information?

61 comments:

  1. Unless EU is counting both directions to come up with "signs," there's only one stop sign on 101 between Encinitas and Leucadia Blvds. It's at Marcheta. The new one at Union will make Vulcan equivalent to 101.

    Seems doubtful that one stop sign in more than a mile-long stretch of road will divert traffic when 101 has the same number.

    Burgin should get to know the neighborhood. Vulcan-Union is a three-way, not a four-way intersection.

    Kranz should stir his memory. The staff determined there's not enough room for a roundabout at Vulcan-Union when Pruim was still here.

    Blakespear wanted to consider alternatives to a full stop north-south so drivers wouldn't have to stop unnecessarily 24/7/365. The traffic engineer said drivers wouldn't know what to do at a HAWK. That sounded pretty silly.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Pruim was not a good engineer. There is plenty of room for a roundabout with a liittle easement from NCTD when they built the crossing.

      Im glad for the stop sign. They need to go the del mar/rancho santa fe style stops on Hwy101 to get the I5 Oceanside/Carlsbad commuter freeway traffic back to I5.

      Our town is suffering from it and its an easy fix. Stop signs and one lane in each direction. Give the other lane to parking and bicycle lane needs.

      Delete
    2. Lets have blakespear take out all those unwarranted stops on Santa Fe, down town encinitas, and cardiff before she starts crying the ommisions argument.

      The stop is a simple solution until the perminant roundabout is built.


      Great solution.

      Delete
    3. 5:10/5:19 fails the literacy test. Pay no attention to the non-working brain.

      Delete
    4. 9:29 has nothing to offer. so what if a capital, period or grammar mistake was made.

      you are an idiot and will always be a none thinking idiot with nothing positive to offer. Go ahead grandma. I gave you a few to correct. Loser.

      Delete
  2. CB and MM were correct on this. A HAWK would have been preferable. Kranz is crazy about roundabouts, although they don't make sense at narrow intersections with no through-way cross-streets.

    The traffic engineer's fears are silly, and unfounded. Seems as though it should take a super majority of Council to put in a new stop sign, especially without our having been presented with traffic collision studies.

    If the freeway is clogged, 101 gets clogged. People will be forced to divert to Vulcan, if possible. Making everyone come to a complete stop 24/7 seems as though it would create unnecessary increases in greenhouse gases. Traffic could get jammed up from traffic signal on Leucadia Blvd and Vulcan, to the stop sign.

    Our traffic engineers seem like they are a joke.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They are. A roundabout is the best solution. A stop is needed in the interim. Get it done.

      Delete
    2. You keep saying, "get it done," without addressing any of the objections and issues being addressed here. It's like a game of "is/is not, except one "side" is presenting informed opinions and facts, while you are just mouthing marketing jive.

      Delete
  3. Where is Crazy C?? She should be demanding a full EIR. Once again the COE chooses the most reactionary response to a simple situation.... how about a few of our men in uniform and a radar gun???
    Encinitas #idiots#morons

    ReplyDelete
  4. Crazy eyed C will be there. She hates common sense decisions. She will be screaming at the talk of any roundabout.

    This location is a All way stop until they build a roundabout at it. Great decision give the location of the school and farmers market.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Mikey, slimy mikey, you just can't resist bringing someone in to an issue with which they haven't had anything to do with. Your unending fascination and envy for her is showing again. Crawl back into your lair and look into a mirror sometime.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think it's Jerome Stocks, calling names, not Andreen. MA has not been in favor of multiple roundabouts on the railtrail corridor.

      Delete
  6. Blakespear was right. It should have gone back to the traffic and safety commission to consider and propose other solutions.

    It's a tiny T intersection. NCTD, school and mobile home land would have to be taken to fit a roundabout, crosswalks and sidewalks there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Total BS. Only a small easement in NCTD right of way.

      Blakespear was wrong on this one.

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    2. Wrong, 9:05. Go look at the intersection.

      Delete
  7. A future roundabout at Vulcan and Union to replace the 3-way stop? Unlikely. Roundabout are to keep the traffic moving and lower CO2 emissions with unnecessary stopping and idling, which make for more CO2 emissions to complete a trip. Roundabouts are also more dangerous for pedestrians because cars are not forced to stop with a sign. The safest solution is a pedestrian-activated stoplight, which has the big advantage of only stopping cars when someone wants to cross the road. It works on 101 in Solana Beach.

    The Leucadia segment of the rail trail is planned for the east side of the tracks to preserve parking space on the west side. Where does the space come from to squeeze in a roundabout? The city is not going to condemn property to do it

    It looks like Blakespear and Muir have the high road on this. Boerner-Horvath is technically unsophisticated and wants the roundabout for her kids. Kranz always supports roundabouts. They serve the interests of his developer friends because roundabouts make traffic studies easier to justify developments which create more traffic. Mosca went along because he's used to all the stop signs on Rancho Santa Fe Road, his main exit from where he lives.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 10:28 has it right.

      Delete
    2. Agree with 10:28. City doesn't have room for a roundabout there, and doesn't have the statistics at existing roundabouts in Encinitas, to justify one at that location. Some people just want what's trendy; others want justification for raising density by alleged "traffic calming," when what would happen, would be more back-ups, and more green house gas emissions. The Coastal Commission is also concerned about more traffic snarls on this transportation corridor.

      Delete
    3. technically, you can put a roundabout anywhere. Although the amount of space would change the geometry and anticipated, posted speed limit.

      Delete
    4. The voices in one person's head at 4:40 and 10:28 agree.

      I love it when people with clear clues of authorship try to create the perception of more than one person with the same nutty thoughts.

      Delete
    5. You're dead wrong, 8:47. I posted at 4:40 and I'm definitely not 10:28. You are projecting accusations of your own troll-bot methodologies. Instead of addressing the points raised, you make false claims against those commenting, in good faith, here. Typical.

      Delete
    6. Said one of the voices in her head.

      Delete
  8. agree with Pffft. 10:28 has no stats to back their BS.

    in other words, Complete BS.

    A roundabout is the perfect solution

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 10:28 backed up his/her comments more than you have, 9:04 and 6:49. Trolling is easy, misunderstanding all you see. You are a troll-bot, degrading all with whom you disagree.

      Delete
    2. Adding a stop sign at this location would contribute to air quality problems. In CEQA speak - hot spot analysis. If I was a neighbor living east of that on Vulcan, I would not be happy.

      Delete
    3. Thanks, 8:37, for weighing in with some common sense, not just the usual pro-roundabout, anti-neighbor spin.

      Delete
  9. Peter Kohl presented the best option with the Hawk traffic control device. For 22 hours a day, traffic wouldn't have to stop.

    Rob Blough needs to expand his mind and see that a better solution was offered. He did not come off well.

    Catherine and Mark did. Thank you Catherine and Mark.

    Joe, what the heck? As for Tony and Tasha, they do have their moments and this was not a good ruling. What a shame that they couldn't see the better solution. Thanks go out to Peter Kohl . You did all you could.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Peter should no better. Roundabouts are the solution.

      Peter- If your against all way stops on Vulcan, I suppose you would recommend removing all the non-warranted stops on Rancho Sante Fe Road designed to stop the commuter patterns from Villages of La Costa and San Marcos from cutting through Olivenhain?

      Delete
  10. A speedway next to a grammar school is a bad mix and stop signs are the least expensive solution. This street should not be part of the freeway system and drivers of through traffic do have an alternative. Good for Tony, Tasha, and Joe.

    If the "Hawk" is a better solution then their salesman should propose it to the city, we can't expect any better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hawk signalized crosswalk would be the least expensive, in the long run, in terms of less greenhouse emissions. There will be back-ups during peak periods due to the traffic signal at Leucadia and Vulcan. Also, Vulcan is not typically a "speedway," now. There will always be a few speeders, who could blow the stop sign. No need for people to have to come to a complete stop 24/7, including when school is out. The stop sign should only be an interim solution.

      I too am disappointed in JM. He would be wise to follow the mayor's lead.

      Delete
    2. Both Wrong. A roundabout is the right solution.

      Wake up Muir and Blakespear. There is plenty of room for it and it is the safest, most efficient and best at reducing green house gases.

      People run hawk signals just like regular signals and kids and community members would be the victims. I wish some people would care as much about the community residents including our children as they do about commuters travel time to San Diego.

      So sad and some so ignorant.

      Delete
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    ReplyDelete
  12. Temporary stop replaced with a perminant roundabout is the right solution.

    Wake up Muir and Blakespear. There is plenty of room for it and it is the safest, most efficient and best at reducing green house gases.

    People run hawk signals just like regular signals and kids and community members would be the victims. I wish some people would care as much about the community residents including our children as they do about commuters travel time to San Diego.

    So sad and some so ignorant.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 5:32 Wrong. The intersection is too small for a roundabout. The inscribed diameter has to be at least 90-100 feet. There has to be a buffer outside that diameter. Achieving that would require taking school, NCTD and private land. All that is why the engineers already said there's not enough room for a roundabout.

      Delete
    2. "The inscribed diameter has to be at least 90-100 feet."

      Source?

      Delete
    3. Never mind. Found it. You are mostly right. Page 146 of the Roundabout Informational Guide, Federal Highway Administration:

      "In general, the in- scribed circle diameter should be a minimum of 30 m (100 ft) to accommodate a WB-15 (WB-50) design vehicle. Smaller roundabouts can be used for some local street or collector street intersections, where the design vehicle may be a bus or single-unit truck."

      Delete
    4. 5:32 AM

      "People run hawk signals just like regular signals ..." So a roundabout would eliminate cars not stopping for children in the crosswalk? I guess you don't use or observe the behavior in roundabouts. Given my experience with the roundabouts on Leucadia Blvd a HAWK signal would be much more effective.

      7:09 PM

      Nice interlude. I guess even crazy people need to recharge.

      Delete
    5. "Given my experience with the roundabouts on Leucadia Blvd a HAWK signal would be much more effective."

      You are joking, right?

      So if I want to turn left in my car onto Leucadia Blvd, I should hop out, run over, and push the button?

      This is why we leave these things to the experts. Nobody with decision-making power over traffic controls should ever do more than pretend to listen, smile, and nod.

      Delete
    6. 1:53 PM

      "You are joking, right?"

      My response was in response to the pedestrian safety issue. HAWKs are not for traffic control like a stop light. That's pretty obvious. A HAWK wouldn't work at the intersection. It would need to be placed where the school crosswalk is currently south of the intersection.

      Incidentally,to effectively protect crossing students, the stop signs would have to be at the crosswalk or the crosswalk would have to be moved to the intersection. While stops signs on Vulcan at the intersection does require the traffic to come to a stop, southbound traffic would get a running start to the existing crosswalk and any northbound line of cars could extend into the crosswalk.

      And before you say it, I use that intersection all the time going both north and south on Vulcan and turning on to southbound Vulcan from Union.

      So while you seem to have the snark part down, I'd work on the reading comprehension.

      Delete
    7. Right.

      So when you said "Given my experience with the roundabouts on Leucadia Blvd a HAWK signal would be much more effective."

      Naturally, you meant "effective" assuming cars and cross streets didn't exist.

      Naturally.

      Delete
  13. Nice of the city to slow down traffic. How about a 4 way stop at all intersections??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not at all, but they could sure replace a lot of those poor performing signals with roundabouts. That would work much better.

      I rather be driving through a roundabout, then looking at this stupid red light.

      Delete
  14. Stop the ignorant back and forth. The bottom line is there's not enough room at that intersection for a roundabout. That's both common sense for anybody who knows the geography, and it's what the engineers testified way back when.

    ReplyDelete
  15. 5:04- Ignorant comment. There is plenty of room for a roundabout. Only need 100' diameter. Easily have that with a small easement on NCTD Right-of-way and School district property.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 10:01 Your mind is made up so nobody can confuse you with the facts.

      Delete
    2. 10:28-

      Facts are facts fool. Waite and see.

      Delete
    3. The fact is there's not enough room for a roundabout, buffer and sidewalks at that intersection. Stop displaying your willful ignorance. Go look at the ground there.

      Delete
  16. Must be Tony's fathead taking over again. Roundabouts are the solution to everything. What a bozo.

    I suppose this intersection could become an easy revenue generator for the city for those 22 hours a days when parents and their kids are not there. The trailer park folks will be getting the pollution of every car stopping there 24 hours a day. Brilliant, just brilliant.

    ReplyDelete
  17. 11:22pm-


    Only about 10 percent of the cars actually stop at a stop sign. Go watch one operate. The other 90% do a CA roll or yield which is more common sense and better for the environment.

    http://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/02/09/to-make-streets-safer-seattle-may-get-rid-of-traffic-signals/

    http://sdotblog.seattle.gov/2017/02/08/from-signals-to-signs/

    The best solution is an all way stop and then a permanent roundabout in conjunction with the new separate crossing.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Nice new roundabout in Del Mar...

    ReplyDelete
  19. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSjFAt3U2aE

    HAWK in the news.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I guess there is a learning curve with these. Don't want to be the one that was learned on.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-clMwme-Ys

      Delete
  20. My Gosh,

    Many people do not quiet get it. A HAWK is a pedestrian hybrid beacon. This is an intersection with vehicles. Four alternatives exist. Leave it with no control on Vulcan Ave., 2) make it an all way stop 3) traffic signal, or 4) roundabout. Do a ICE analysis and the roundabout will prove to be the best alternative.

    https://michigancompletestreets.wordpress.com/2013/11/26/pedestrian-hybrid-beacons-hawk-signals-explained/

    It will be easy to include the needed easement for the roundabout along with the easement needed for the under-crossing. The school will also grant the needed easement given the increased safety for its constituents. The outer vehicular diameter only needs to be 85' like the Sante Fe roundabout. The space exists.

    People quoting FHWA guidelines have no knowledge of real design.

    Roundabout wins again.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Santa Fe roundabout's inscribed diameter is 90 feet. Hymettus is 84 feet. Hermes is 82 feet. Add the dirt-landscaping buffers and the sidewalks, and the public property needed is more than 100 feet.

      Those intersections are four-way, and the roundabouts there aren't big enough to be safe. If they were bigger, drivers in any direction would be able to see which direction drivers in other directions were going, thereby avoiding collisions and near-hits. Too small means the transit is too fast.

      The Union-Vulcan intersection is T, which makes it less suitable for a roundabout There isn't 100 feet of space there for a roundabout without taking school, NCTD and trailer-park land.

      Anybody who doubts that should stand in the middle of Vulcan opposite the center line of Union and turn a slow circle as you sight 100 feet ahead.

      Unless you're blind, an idiot or both, you'll see there's not enough space for a roundabout there.

      Delete
  21. 10:37 PM
    The city would take the private property by eminent domain. There is no easement. Is your property up for eminent domain by the city?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No eminent domain needed. NCTD has and will give easements for the under crossing and associated safe passage pathway to Vulcan Ave. Likewise, the school district will as well.

      Sorry fool. Try again.

      Delete
  22. Encinitas Guerrilla covered the roundabout issue recently and what a riot it was.

    From the supporters posting here, it sure appears he was spot on about their level of mental competence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I love fiction. Its so fun and even better with the herb. Cracks me up the stuff that she comes up with.

      Delete
  23. Replies
    1. Looks like a silverback.

      https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/gorilla-dancing-pool/

      Delete