On Jul 31, 2013, at 12:34 PM, Teresa Barth <TBarth@encinitasca.gov> wrote:
Nor do I intend to answer your questions.
The facts are: Prop A passed and the city is implementing it citywide.
Teresa
Sent from my iPad
Blogger's note: Will we be able to trust the city next time? We can certainly determine that we would should not expect transparency (many have already known this).
Here's the questions. Formatted for clarity.
On Jul 30, 2013, at 5:02 PM, "K.C." wrote:
I have good reason to believe that the city did not bring in any new outside assistance in helping to evaluate the legal issues related to implementing Prop A.
1. Is this correct?
2. Why did you not resolve actual and stated interpretation issues prior to the election?
2b. How many work hours were required determine how to write up the FAQ related to residential heights?
3. Doesn't it seem logical that should have been attempted prior to the election or at least stated how the city would act after it was passed, so the public would know what they were voting on?
4. What [was] the process and timeline for deciding if the city will implement higher residential height limits?
5. Do you believe that it is fair for you to describe the Rutan and Tucker report as an "independent" study? Why?
Fuck, you yes on A people are never satisfied. It's no wonder this shitty city is known as Mayberry by the sea. Go surfing... Drink too much sea water...see what happens....idiots.
ReplyDeleteAre you satisfied with the current level of trustworthiness and transparency?
DeleteGiving that this was the first comment I suspect this is to me. I am not a Yes on A person. The yes on A people thought that I was a "mole" for the other side and they knew that I had great reservations about the height limit (in the SP areas) and the process for the development the prop.
DeleteI might not be that smart (I work with people a lot smarter than me so I get constant reminders of that). Can you explain to me why the city didn't just write the FAQs before the election?
I pushed Lisa and Tony to do that.
Doesn't it look a whole lot like there really wasn't much to be resolved? (There is even more that hasn't been expressed that points to this.)
Can you, if Barth won't, support their ballot statements?
2:29 councils new pr person? Probably not, too suave.
DeleteKind of sounds like Tony.
DeleteI wonder if Barth considers her e mail to be private and not to be dashed about all over the Internet??
ReplyDeleteJus wundrin'.
She had no reason to expect the communication to be confidential and multiple reasons to know I would be sharing her response.
DeleteAs a publicly elected official, she should be prepared for her comments to be shared. Look at Bob Filner!
DeleteTeresa Barth, I see from the initiating post, wrote her reply to Kevin through her City e-mail address: TBarth@encinitasca.gov
DeleteTo her, and according to City policy, and the Brown Act, that is not a "private" e-mail, and communication sent to or from that address is publicly disclosable. Teresa is very well aware of this fact, as is Lisa Shaffer. I believe that Shaffer's, Barth's and Kranz' city e-mail addressed responses all have a "disclaimer" at the bottom of any message that inform the recipient that e-mails sent to the City (including the City Clerk, and other staff members) are publicly disclosable, as they should be.
The Mayor's emails are public record.
ReplyDeleteSummertime, and the livin' is easy. Fish are jumpin and the cotton is high.
ReplyDeleteMayberry rules. Low crime, low buildings, plenty of trees and parking, a sensible sheriff and only one Otis. Oh, but they could be next to the Pacific.
And I dare any two people to whistle their theme with harmony without laughing.
If I were Mayor Barth I wouldn't respond to you.
ReplyDeleteAll you do is attack, inspire to attack and offer little positive.
You are a bad news bear
I've reported on good things. Unfortunately, this one is a giant disappointment that will cast a long shadow on the Mayor's service.
DeleteShe is not just not responding to me. She is withholding from you. I was explicit with Barth that some of the questions were generated on behalf a few people who were afraid to ask her these things directing because of fear of being turned away by her.
Do some public records requests. You will see that I do inquire a lot and challenge statements to be supported and offer options (many of which were adopted). Most of my warnings have come home to roost already.
Do you think the Mayor should keep the answers secret from the public?
The fact that Barth is not willing to address these questions is not what we expected from her after fighting for years to help put her into her current position. The term 'disappointment' is a an understatement.
DeleteYA YA KEVINS WAY OUR THE HIGHWAY SPOILED PRIVILEGED BRAT
ReplyDeleteRUN FOR SOMTHING KEVIN NOT JUST YOUR MOUTH!!!!!!!!!get over it
Heal this city.
I'm very accepting of different ways as long as they are minimally sufficient in terms of integrity. I also am big on seeking out alternative perspectives and try to use that to test my own perspective.
DeleteMore so than most, and I don't turn on positions just because of the personalities involved. I'd like to say that about our council, eventually. I did help run Barth's first campaign and I did . I've also proposed lots of solutions and alternatives over the years, and have some biggies that I had hoped to float when we get a council looking for it.
I started the Encinitas Project produce change on issues the council wanted to avoid, but mostly I just like to run my mouth and report and comment on what the council does. Do you think that the Encinitas City Council is/ has demonstrated integrity and transparency? My conclusion is getting even stronger that the Mayor did not play fair.
Was she playing fair? Why should we expect any different going forward if she won't even address it?
Kevin and other community members are volunteers who have spent countless hours of their time trying to engage with the paid staff and paid elected officials. It is the ongoing conversation that is the basis of a democracy.
DeleteIt is not our fault that they can't perform their jobs and get caught in lies over and over again. They should be recalled and fired! Those who attack Kevin and others need to find out more about the issues and consider the roles and responsibilities of the people in charge. I am unaware of any other place besides Encinitas City Hall where people are paid so much for doing so little and are rewarded for making serial mistakes that when considered as a whole, cost millions of dollars each year.
Recalled and fired. Let it sink in. The leadership in Encinitas should be recalled and fired.
DeleteAs swiftly as possible. We are being robbed blind by a city council that is mocked and manipulated by the city attorney.
DeleteI call Bullshit on Kevin. He is not accepting of anyones opinion other than his own. He can be brutal and hateful and he trashes anyone who disagrees with him. Seek help Kevin, and shut up unless you have something worthwhile to say. Teresa had every right to comment as she did. She knows where it would go. Just like when Lynn emails the council. If they had to read her missives they would have no time to do anything else. You may be briefer than Lynn, but you are actually more harmful.Now go away.
DeleteHas anyone even proposed an differing opinion on the council's fair play?
DeleteEvidence to support those statements, because they are not correct? Opinions that are supported and challenges to my propositions are more than accepted. Rather they have always been encouraged.
Did I ever say she doesn't have the right to take the 5th?
It is clear that her signed statements have not turned out to be correct. If I do not ask her to clarify what has happened I will not be fair to her, before I start publishing widely about the council's ethical lapse.
Someone is sure spending a lot of time attacking me rather than addressing the issue of the council's fair play.
Expose what they are doing. The majority, yes the vast majority of Encinitas is very unhappy at the fact there is no integrity at city hall. Shaffer spouted integrity and hasn't shown an ounce. We wanted A supported, desert rose opposed, bars curtailed and some movement on pension reform and costs controlled foremost. While in office how about a plan to fix roads, deteriorating rapidly!
ReplyDeleteVery suspicious that the city delayed posting on its website until July 29 that Prop. A was effective citywide and that more restrictive height limits are still in force. Planning Director Jeff Murphy had said earlier in open council session that he planned to finish up his discussions with the Coastal Commission by July 21, the ten days after the council certified the election results.
ReplyDeleteNot a peep out of the city for a week. Now the Mayor refuses to answer any questions concerning why the city strongly opposed the initiative based what are now proven to be false arguments and distortions of the municipal code. It all looks to be calculated to give the council time to hide from the public while on their annual summer break. Where's the openness and transparency? Does the council hope that three weeks of silence will somehow make the public forget?
It seems the council, city manager, and city attorney all thought and hoped that if they confused the public enough, they could defeat Prop. Correct facts and truthfulness were thrown out the windows. Now the truth is coming out. We the public are owned an explanation of what happened and why.
Kevin
ReplyDeleteYour people skills are joke .The council will not answer your questions ever
You keep beating the same drum it's over we won,you make us all look
Stupid move on .your becoming a one trick pony your beginning to sound
Like Lynn shut up your becoming a joke we you the kword
I agree Lword is a one trick pony.
ReplyDeleteDon't fall down that hole.
Mixed metaphors. But what is the one trick?
DeleteFunny how to you the ultimate insult is comparing someone to me, lol! Your obsession is showing.
Somewhere in the Mayor's house there is a calendar that she is crossing off daily and it goes through November of next year when she can retire from 'politics' and Cameron can take her place. That'll be a relief.
ReplyDeleteKevin,
ReplyDeleteDon't listen to the detractors that post here. You're doing a fantastic service for Encinitas. I was a Barth supporter. Worked on two of her campaigns with signs flyers etc. She was so dishonest in the Prop A campaign now I want to recall her. She doesn't want to answer your questions because here dishonesty would be highlighted.
Cardiffian
Aside from the fact that Prop A (And Desert Rose) immediately caused the new council people (And Teresa)to be devoured en masse by their own supporters through political cannibalism: what has Prop A done but doom the city to becoming Escondido By The Sea?
DeleteWhat? I can't say that? Check out the quarterly sales tax records from Yorba Linda and Escondido starting in 2006 since Yorba Linda approved a very similar proposition.
Those are real events: not a possible, potential use of a 'public benefit' boogie man vote that might have happened some day.
If Kevin or anyone identifies themselves on this blog, those who cannot follow or make a simple argument, demonize those who bravely self-identify by launching vicious personal attacks.
Encinitas needs Kevin.
Readers, Teresa hasn't turned on you! No one can answer every need. Because she couldn't do everything she promised, now its time for "off with her head!": Tony, Lisa and Teresa want to fulfill every desire of their supporters, but a lot of what is desired is illegal: other people have rights too.
On the other hand, Kevin, it is hysterical that you are so adamantly questioning the Mayor, expecting answers when almost no one has gone back to the root cause of the problem/catalyst that has caused the great-falling-out: the people who thought up Prop A.to begin with? The people you turned the Encinitas Project over to?
It's (Prop A's) origin is with two or three former electeds and appointeds who swore an oath against one or two current electeds, and because the fringe group didn't believe that they could oust a longtime majority from the City Council dais: Prop A was designed by a political 'spite dish' that got out of control: "ha ha ha, you might be in charge but technically we have taken the power out of your hands. To spite you!"
Surprise, suddenly the fringe group candidates win. Duh? Now what?
Oh, I know, let's sacrifice everything we've gained. Yes, off with their heads! All of 'em.
Ever try to get your family to agree on what kind of drive-thru/take-out to have for dinner? City Council works the same way, only it's a lot more frustrating.
And, why, Kevin, didn't Ehlers, Cameron, Bonde not want to sign the registration papers to circulate the Prop A initiative (the petition) themselves? In the first place? Why ask Turney? Was it because they hoped to disguise their role in it? Dozens of people had turned them down to sign on: why did Turney?
And once they've taken the Encinitas City Council majority: why not declare victory?
Why turn against the folks you just spent two years getting elected?
Easy answer, you felt owed? Right? And when they wouldn't or couldn't do exactly what they were asked?
Recall your own friends you say? But who better?
How about asking some of these questions: Kevin?
Even if the Mayor were making hourly notes during the last year you could read later, the Mayor was playing defense, catch-up: blindsided, it would be more impressive to see your questions (and read true answers) for the folks you turned the Encinitas Project over to.
You do have questions, don't you: not just for the Mayor?
Escondido and Yorba Linda's reduced sales tax revenues can also be attributed to the fact that they were entering a recession, caused in great part by disingenuously bundled investments that banks put out, while at the same time allowing and pushing "paperless" loans, with no verification of earnings required, which led to the huge housing market bubble bursting.
DeleteBecause we are right along the coast, here, in Encinitas, we are less affected by these market shifts. Many people have been immensely affected by the recession, and of course sales tax revenues took a hit, just as property tax revenues did, in Yorba Linda and Escondido, more so than on the coast. The per capita incomes of Yorba Linda and Escondido are probably a lot lower in those cities, too, so the people there are going to be composed more of low middle, and "middle-middle" classes, and not so many upper middle class and also the "elite" upper class demographics that are always going to have more disposable income, and can afford to purchase more from retail outlets, or to take vacations to cities, like ours, spending tourist dollars here.
You cannot fairly attribute a decline in sales tax revenue in Escondido or Yorba Linda to their passing initiatives similar to Prop A. More marketing jive and prevarication. The election is over, here. Your false arguments did not hold weight for the majority of the voters.
Kevin,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to say this, but you have to factor in your personality. I'm not saying you have to be warm and cuddly, but you can come off as strident and disrespectful. Trying burying the hatchet on a personal level with Teresa and then see if you can get some answers. Let's be real, all of the Prop A, Desert Rose etc. has become highly personal in this city, or you wouldn't hear words like "traitor" and "betrayed". I unequivocally support Teresa in the efforts she has given for our city. I may not agree with her on all of the issues, but I have seen an honest and true approach that didn't exist in other candidates like Jerome or Jim Bond, or Danny for that matter. We're in a tough time and these are tough issues, but a little respect still goes a long way.
I'm not going to question, here, the way Kevin asks questions. I tremendously appreciate the time he's spent researching, and trying to get honest answers.
DeletePeople use the word betrayed, when speaking about those many worked hard to get into elected office, because we do take it personally when it seems a "bait and switch" has been pulled on us. We VOTED for something we did not get!
With all due respect, respect is something that is earned. Teresa Barth had earned respect, in the past. Her stance on open, transparent government seems to have changed, radically, before our eyes. Kevin may sometimes seem "abrupt" or "clinically logical," which can be off-putting. But an elected official needs to be able to interface with all types of personalities, to draw on the expertise and yes, the underlying GOODWILL of the public, including watchdogs and city "critics."
People do take it very personally when we feel we've been lied to. I can respect the office of mayor and of a city council member. But I cannot respect lies, subterfuge and prevarication by anyone, including Council or City Staff.
Those we elect are judged on their actions and their words. I suspect that Teresa Barth will retire after having served in office for eight years; she has said she supports term limits. I'm glad she finally had her turn at being mayor. It's unfortunate that she has seemed to backtrack on many of her positions, losing support, and yes, respect from many who campaigned for her in 2006 and 2010.
She did make some positive changes, while in office. I truly respect her father, Bill Arballo, and miss his columns in the Coast News. I also miss Encinitas You Need Us, and appreciate the eulogy that Teresa wrote for its before anonymous author, Kate David.
Perhaps, Teresa, with your father's advancing age and declining health, and Kate David's regrettable recent passing, you have lost some of your guiding stars, and lost your sense of direction? I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I hope you can consider that when you are getting the same message of disappointment and even distrust from many of those you may considered to be your former friends, then you would be wise to take a long and hard look at your actions or inactions. Are you the one shutting others out? Are you being vindictive, and cold? Are you living up to promises your constituents heard you make?
Questioning authority is necessary for an examined life. An examined life is worth living.
The question is a question. I will not pretend that it is not in the context of serious concern over the appearance of a gap in integrity. I will not simultaneously give an elected official questions about them manipulation the public while I try to manipulate answers from them.
DeleteMore important. The recent emails are at the end of a long series of emails with Barth who was being asked questions in a different context. She obstructed and avoid answering questions right out the gate.
I wish others would clear this up instead of me. Will you please ask the Mayor nicely about the ballot statements? $500 bucks to you for the report with the answers and analysis. (see below)
Eh, you're pretty much dodging it like you're accusing her of dodging it. You're not a reporter, in the classical sense. Still disagree with your approach, but your entitled to it. My point remains, you can't subtract the human element from any interpersonal exchange. You may not thing you're acting like a tool, but if the other party does, the end result is what counts. Something to think about if you ever decide to cross that line from muckraker to more active participant in the political process.
DeleteKevin is not by a long shot the only person trying to communicate with Teresa and other council members. Kevin has his own approach, but others taking a much softer one are equally informed by both Teresa and usually the others as well.
ReplyDeleteSabine advised the council they were to be careful about what they said and wrote, which translated conveniently for them into silence or at best a brush-off. Even when communicating with recent supporters/volunteers, they take an arrogant tone as in "how dare you question my judgment?
What a difference a year makes, at least where Teresa-Tony-Lisa are concerned. The other two have kept to their original personas....
Sabine advising the council in this manner is not out of the ordinary. Actually, it's prudent. It's also the same advice given to anyone in a leadership position in a public company. Measure your words. But is appears that something happened to the message between Sabine's mouth and the council's ears. I think what they heard is anything you say can get you in trouble. This is a direct result of political inexperience - something I've harped on during the elections. Yes, Encinitas politics in the grand scheme of things is small potatoes, but it's so politically explosive that the council is frozen in its efforts to "bring openness". Yes, Stocks was the antichrist, but he knew how to operate in the political world. What's truly disheartening is how all the supporters totally crapped on their candidates. Surely some donor, some operative, someone could have brokered a line of communication that would have diffused this - maybe someome tried? I guess it's too late now - political inexperience and pitchforks outside the door have pretty much sealed the fate of this council.
Delete- The Sculpin
Let's not forget the flaming torches.....( didn't they play the Belly Up in the 80's ?)
DeleteThis in itself needs to be analyzed.
DeleteThis is not a company. It is government and more important.... they DID MAKE PUBLIC STATEMENTS. Their public statements appeared to be bull and weakly supported. So... they were told not to talk and back up their claims because?????
They would get in trouble??? How, for being caught in lies? No, then what?
They ran on trust and transparency.
Sculpin, it could have been diffused and people went to talk with the mayor and oh boy, look into why it wasn't. I personally communicated with Kranz and Lisa about resolving the inconsistencies between the no and yes camp's signed statements. I never got an answer that now holds up as to why the 30foot height issue was not resolved prior to the election.
"Equally IGNORED," damn you, autocorrect! Equally ignored by Teresa, the others.
ReplyDeleteIt is called betrayal. Very few go to that level, only the worst of the worst. That is what we have, Encinitas is too good for such low people to run things.
ReplyDeletekword,Is that what they are calling Kevin. My god,you're as bad as they are
ReplyDeleteYou've become a joke
Skip
DeleteDon't tell anyone I'm Fword.
Deletelol, Fred!
DeleteTo answer whether attempts were made to broker lines of communication: yes. Many tried, many times. The pitchforks scenario Sculpin describes was not arrived at suddenly. There was a good deal of contact from supporters to understand Teresa, Lisa, Tony's thinking and near-begging to get them to at least consider where supporters were coming from, but the wall went up fast. The description "betrayed" was not arrived at easily, but is where it stands now.
ReplyDeleteOne of the biggest issues is that they have betrayed their own stated values and campaign promises. It is bad enough to abandon their base and to go back on their personal word of honor. What about their own personal concepts of themselves? How can they live with themselves? It must be stressful for them to attend public functions when they have betrayed trust and divided the city.
ReplyDeleteHow is this council majority any different than the council that they replaced. Their votes have been exactly what Stocks and Forrester would have made had they won the last election.
Same old dog and pony show. Whe will you prop A people get over your
ReplyDeleteVictory or maybe you didn't win
12:48: given the nasty way the few in the loyal opposition came out against Prop A, I've gotta warn you: we may not get over it for a long time. Your best bet may be to move to Orange County if you don't like the victory laps.
ReplyDeleteThese folks brought Orange County mentality so that would be a good destination.
ReplyDeleteEveryone came here from somewhere, even Fred is an LA transplant. It doesn't mean we need to live without sidewalks, street lights, flowers and a nice Hwy 101.
DeleteBuild the streetscape.
We don't need to live without sidewalks, and we aren't. They can and should be continued to be improved on 101 and on Leucadia Blvd. In fact, improved sidewalks on Leucadia Blvd. were PROMISED as part of roundabout installation there. That hasn't happened; the money was diverted. Also, a railtrail corridor for bicyclists should be installed, as planned through the Bicycle Masterplan Update, "continued" indefinitely, without explanation by Gus Vina, when it was supposed to come before Council last March, according to the Agenda published in the Coast News.
DeleteWe do love our canopy, our flowers, and we all want a "nice Hwy 101." We do appreciate street lights on the highway, for safety.
Build the greenscape/artscape, yes. Four one-lane roundabouts? NO!
We could also try sticking to the subject. I would like to hear the Mayor's "defense" of breaking Coastal Act Law with respect to eliminating one lane for motorists going North on 101, which is on the City's webpage as being an initial phase of the North 101 Streetscape Project, BEFORE perfecting its Coastal Development Permit, design review, and environmental impact report, including projected traffic analysis? Our City's General Plan, quoting Coastal Act Law, forbids piecemeal development as a way to get around environmental review of any project "as a whole."
What is the Mayor's defense for being so concerned about Coastal Commission review of a possible LCP (Local Coastal Program) Amendment with respect to Prop A, and completely DISMISSING, the Coastal Commission's direction (and City staff's concurrence in the 1/30 staff report for that Council Meeting) that a General Plan Amendment, North 101 Specific Plan Amendment and LCP Amendment were ALL needed (as also verified on the City's Leucadia Streetscape webpage) BEFORE lane elimination for motorists on N101 could be carried out?
Why the double standard? These are questions inquiring minds would like to know.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI ws born here and have lived here all my life and yes I have seen the change
ReplyDeleteSome good some bad .It maybe that you have some anger issues.I just disagree
with you're attitude.I plan on living here the rest of my life thank you
Dump Barth!
ReplyDeleteBump Darth!
ReplyDeleteNo anger issues, just fear of what monied interests and influence could do to a town we all love. Speaking for most "angry" folks you see posting on here from time to time, it is fear, not anger, doing the talking.
ReplyDeleteAnd the fear is justified when we have Teresa calling prop A proponents "obstructionists," Jim Bond calling city hall-watchers "the usual suspects," Lisa Shaffer claiming prop A was carried out by a handful of people acting "like it's a life and death issue," and Gus Vina stating there are "28 identified activists" in Encinitas.
Scared? Hell, yes! Everyone should be: these are (and were) officials elected to carry out the will of the people, instead acting like concerned citizens are the enemy. Pretty outrageous, in my anonymous opinion.
This is a democracy. As citizens, we are attempting to participate in the process. For them to label that majority who voted YES on Prop A, is to try to make US sound like the minority--not THEM.
DeleteWe are not a fringe group. Most Encinitas residents want to keep the community character as it is. Those who want to degrade it for financial gain are the actual minority. Our council should represent voters, not those people paid to ruin our city.
Dump GASPAR and MUIR it seems threy are innocent HAHAHAHA
ReplyDeleteNot innocent, just a known (developer-funded) quantity, so outside scrutiny as no surprises there. Their stripes are out here and have not changed, despite Gaspar "Loving Encinitas."
DeleteKevin
ReplyDeleteI think you should sue mayor Barth ,yes that's a great idea and you do it so well!!!!!!
Why are you upset with Kevin when an impartial judge ruled in favor of his case! If anything, the fact that Kevin won this case is a testimony to its merit since judges tend to side with cities.
DeleteWe should be upset that we have such weak staff members and poor leadership at the City. All they would have had to do is to follow the law and have given Kevin the report that he requested for several years. That would have been free!
Kevin
ReplyDeleteI don't think mayor Barth intends to answer your questions,she understands who you are .You've run for nothing you don't go to counci meetings and you have said you don't watch it on TV.Mayor Barth has a rite to her opinion just as you do.It appears
From some of the comments that pepole don't trust you,good luck with that
Only 25 people on this blog care what you think over 9000 people voted for
ReplyDeleteMayor Barth. How bad does that make you feel
It makes me feel responsible.
DeleteWe all know the 2006 and 2010 elections were held BEFORE Teresa Barth gained seniority, and, through the election of Shaffer and Kranz, a majority on Council, which has since been further "consolidated" through our City Manager's "Strategic Planning." Any votes she received was before she made her true stance on the Public's right to vote on upzoning public. She had before specifically stated, "I support the public's right to vote." She knew how that would be taken by Prop A proponents.
ReplyDeleteYou can be sure that many of those who voted for Barth, or for Shaffer, will not be doing so again. But Shaffer, Kranz and Muir are not up, next year, for reelection. Kristin Gaspar's supporters are unlikely to be surprised or disappointed in her decisions, as many who supported Barth have been.
Next year is soon enough for me. I see no purpose in diverting our energies in any type of recall of the mayor, who at long last got her turn. As I said, it's possible, or likely, that she will not run again.
What's more important, to me, is that the City wasted so much more money, and time on the Strategic Plan it now has created, linked on the City's homepage under "In the Spotlight." No mention is made on the Calendar or under the calendar highlights on the Home Page of the meeting in Olivenhain, that I just learned of through Lisa Shaffer's newsletter:
"What About the Future? As we engage in the strategic planning process, I hope you will share your ideas. What is working well, what's important to you, what do you think we should focus on in the future? The City Manager is starting to meet with community groups to explain the process and seek input. He will be speaking to the Olivenhain Town Council on August 7 at 7:30."
According to the homepage, the Strategic Plan has already been formulated. These community outreach "efforts," are really just going through the motions. The public could have been allowed to be more involved in the process, from the beginning, not just as an "afterthought," without notice, dividing people up by whether or not they belong to Olivenhain Council, or Leucadia-Encinitas TC, not giving general public notice of the "sessions."
Next Wednesday night, will people outside of Olivenhain be able to give input or ask Gus Vina questions? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Recall Kevin Bruce and Lynn oh that's rite they ran for nothing having nothing good to say about anything
ReplyDeleteThat's not correct.
DeleteBarth admitted the last dots "input" effort was a sham, but she had four supposed opposition votes to hers on the council at the time to hide behind.
ReplyDeleteWhat, if anything, will the city do differently this time to ensure public input is honestly received and reflected in the current planning cycle? What, if any, leadership will Barth show this time, now that she's supposedly got the majority vote behind her on council?
This is Barth's long-awaited time to shine...let's see what she does with it...personally, not holding my breath.
Were was Kevin ,Bruce and Lynn during the last planning cycle oh ya on there sofa
ReplyDeleteDoing nothing rite
I hope they were with their families, at work, and at rest, as we all should be able to be, if we could only trust the politicians not to screw us over while we're not looking.
DeleteCitizen activism is a direct result of bad acts by council and staff.
WCV
I've never spent much time on the sofa as an adult. Haven't had cable and very rarely watch TV.
DeleteAnd do you mean the general plan update? Actually, that's about when my work got more busy and I took on a few other things to tackle. I attended a few of the panels and workshops. They were not a good use of time and not well designed for a legit public discussion (more importantly the outreach was horrible, most based on the content (or lack of important information)).
There was a lot of public manipulation happening with that and very little facilitation of challenging assumptions and ideas.
Don't forget that they tried to GUT the general plan with the weasel word revision... Barth kept calling for public support of the update process.
Before you jump off to conclusions, I did call Icafono to talk with him. I never got around to writing that up (Busy). It did not make those supporting that process look good.
Before that I tried to lobby the current Mayor who was on the subcommittee to set up contract that specified things that would avoid what happened. Her response was she like the MIG dude. More personality over substance. But that might have just been her line.
What andreen wrote about barth was generally right on with some minor error (from my understanding), but it was actually much worse than what Andreen wrote.
There are many other ways to do this if the council really doesn't have its mind made up already AND really wants the public involved.
WCV
ReplyDeleteOpinions, and we have had this conversation before and your opinion means very little
Right now are like. BELLY BUTTONS every has one fooled you yes on there sofa I don't call that activism. You are a PHONEY lazy D work
Skip you have nothing of value to add.
DeleteQuite right.
DeleteI never claimed to be an activist. I'm an observer, and yes, my opinions are my own.
But I do admire those who care enough about their community to be activists. And I've spoken with quite a few locals, mostly Barth/Shaffer/Kranz voters, who feel betrayed.
Agree on the last point. Unless a Stocks or developer-paid troll, many have their own way of contributing or being an activist and that's cool. Folks like Lynn/Bruce/Kevin/whomever are trying to make things better, am sure they have better things to do than expse city shortcomings and underhanded manuevering for personal gain.
DeleteIt's developer and Stocks/Bond/Guerin/Crawford trolls who have a financial interest in exploiting this town, not to mention lap dog Andreen, who are the baddies here. Don't shoot the messengers. Those who do show their true troll colors.
Kevin, Bruce, and Lynn do not work for the city, nor should they have to oversee what our overpaid city staff do. Absurd.
ReplyDeleteI beg your pardon,I have a lap top and fingers doesn't that make me a citizen activist
ReplyDeleteLike Kevin Bruce Lynn even WCV. You have no skin in this game as I said D work
You can do much better
Concerned residents have more skin in this game than staff who can take their six-figure pensions to Hawaii.
DeleteShowing up at city council and bowing before the altar is not a requirement to have skin in the game.
WCV
I will pay $500, put in an escrow account immediately upon you starting the process, at the location of your choice to show me an example of A work. I would much much much rather someone else do this.
DeletePlease, analyze the trustworthiness, openness, and fairness of this council during Prop A. Yes, analyze whether or not it could have gone down very differently in terms of the information the council was conveying to the public.
Why does this matter? Well, if we are going to take action outside of the council chambers on important issue the people should know if they can trust their council to give them a fair and exhaustive analysis of the options. Going forward, we should have this cleared up long before we get to where it matters. If we wait it will be dismissed as election posturing.
Tell that to the guy who yelled thte British are coming,the British are coming oh you no who that is Some tme you just have to show up like Lisa Tony or Teresa as said before D WORK
ReplyDeleteTroll.
DeleteAnd sometimes the colonists find that begging before the court of King George doesn't get results, and they have to take initiative themselves.
DeleteWCV
I'm not sure about the first part. Teresa got elected to bring fair play to city hall. It was a central plank in her platform.
DeleteI've heard people say he's all mouth. In you're case I think it's all fingers as I said D WORK. You can do so much better
ReplyDeleteThis may indeed be a D WORK blog.
DeleteBut how do you rate the council on Trust & Transparency, Community Character, Fiscal Responsibility?
It's not blog ratings that count, but council actions.
WCV
Well said WCV!
DeleteDemocracy?
DeleteThe newspaper reporters and commentators are "all mouth"
we've broke news (not as reporters) and commented. I've also made things happen by getting Barth elected being in her election cabinet (first one, and recently reminded by a friend about my initial reservations which have come true... but I am easy to satisfy [obove the min.) and I've also been an organizer for statewide ballot initiatives and...
But mostly I've fallen into the roll of designated question asker. Barth thought that was great and often brought me questions to ask and report out. There wasn't a problem with that back then.
I've indulged you and I'm not stepping over your comments. Please, can address the council's fair-play?
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ReplyDeleteLynn,
DeleteYes that is inconsistent. Someone is lashing out and want this discussion get redirected away from the issue of the veracity of the statements and efforts to be honest and open with the public.
When you prepare your comments it is so much better. You do talk too much when you ramble.
Wouldn't want to be inconsistent, Kevin.
DeleteI'm grateful for those who passionately care about our City, who WANT Council to be aware, to pay attention, to understand, so Councilmembers and City staff can do the right thing, act prudently and responsibly.
WCV, thanks for this forum.
Look, Kevin, I'm not a teacher, as you are; I'm not a professional communicator. You may not appreciate my style, just as some don't appreciate yours, which can feel abrupt and dismissive, even confrontational. However, I DO appreciate your efforts, and my own, doing the best we can with the knowledge and power we have to bring sunshine to City Government, including the honesty and accountability that transparency allows.
DeleteI respect personal privacy, but strongly feel our community is entitled to public accountability by government entities, including elected officials, bureaucrats, public officers, and city employees, who should truly act as civil servants. Wasn't that one of Teresa Barth's campaign slogans? Put the civility back into civil service?
There are important and positive things happening in this city and yet we have to hear
ReplyDeletefrom Kevin or Lynn.We called kids like this CRY BABIES and the two biggest bullies on
this blog are Lynn and Kevin
We've been watching city council and would love to see something important and positive happen there.
DeleteWhat are the important and positive things they've done?
WCV
Are they addressing the pension debt? Are they addressing the continuing problems with open government? How about a real fix for the water district independence issue? How about something as simple and central as roads repair? Please list the important and positive things?
DeleteWhy so much energy on people rather than the issue. The issue is whether or not the council played fairly. Barth won't even issue an explanation.
So, is asking for explanations bad? Is not turning around and walking away when the Mayor says I won't answer those questions bad?
6:01 AM
ReplyDeleteThe City Council - What important and positive things? Hiding the quarterly investment reports so that residents have no idea what is happening with taxpayer money?
That is an interesting point. The report that the Finance Director provided the Council a few months ago did not include long-term dept. Sheila Cameron brought forth this point and had done a FIA request to complete the report. I think that all of these discussions need to start with complete and accurate numbers of how much we own, and what are liabilities are for the future.
DeleteThe city Hiding stuff ??
ReplyDeleteThe city says that the Hall Sports Park will cost $19 million. Well that is not true. The financing of the $23 Million is probably half a million a year. How much did the new $8 million loan cost? What the city will not tell you is that the Sports Park will be closer to $70 million.
That is a pretty big lie. How much is maintenance a year? Water and fertilizer ???
Kevin and all citizens stay on them. We need to stop the spending and the pension bleed now! If you followed every city vehicle as they go about their work you would see 50% of the time is squandered and wasted. We are being ripped off by a city run very inefficiently. Yes it is time to start a recall of Barth Vader.
Delete