Researchers examined block-by-block data from Seattle, San Francisco and Washington in part for their hot real estate markets and development pressures. The analysis found that corridors with smaller, older buildings generally perform better for the local economy than areas with newer buildings that might stretch an entire block.The science is settled!
Older buildings become magnets for young people and retirees alike [emphasis added], researchers said. They draw more shops, restaurants, entertainment venues, small businesses owned by women and minorities, and jobs. On a per-square-foot basis, small building corridors have a larger concentration of jobs, businesses and creative sector jobs than downtown skyscrapers. In Seattle, commercial areas with smaller, more age-diverse buildings have 36.8 percent more jobs per square foot than areas with newer, larger buildings.
Historic corridors in these cities are often active from morning to night, said lead researcher Michael Powe, an urban planner with the National Trust's Preservation Green Lab. In D.C., these areas draw more non-chain, local businesses. In San Francisco, they generate more jobs based in small businesses.
Sunday, May 18, 2014
New study finds older, smaller buildings better for cities than "Smart Growth"
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And the point of this posting is...???
ReplyDelete3:00 If you're too dense to get the point, don't accuse anybody else of not having one.
Delete11:39- perhaps I'm not as sophisticated as all the high falooting people in Mayberry by the Sea.
DeleteAnon300, isn't the point obvious?
ReplyDeleteAsk anyone if they would rather live in a quiet Encinitas neighborhood with a small, older house and a California yard where you can grow anything, or if they would like to live in Pacific Station which is already looking run down?
Many people love our older Encinitas neighborhoods and smaller homes. That is the good life--much more than living in stack and pack!
There's nothing quiet about encinitas with a 10 lane freeway cutting it in two and a train going through 45 times a day.
DeleteAs for the type of home where people live, shouldn't that be their choice??
Never trust surveys they are skewed in favor of the person paying the bills.
I think saying Pac Station is run down is a bit of hyperbole. None of this discussion matters unless you can get the populace as a whole to buy in and elect council who have the same ideas on densitiy and can implement said desires as part of the general plan.
DeleteAnd as long as developers and available land are out there, that will not be easy. A lot of people in Encinitas have been opposing large, out of character development for a long time. Right now it seems, this effort has lost its way. For better or worse, the Prop A thing has splintered the slow growth crowd, which may allow the Stocks/Bond crowd to once again take over. Better hope that doesn't happen.
-Mr Green Jeans
Mr. GJ, Prop A did not splinter the slow citizens but in fact unified out city since people want to keep it as it is. That has always been true.
DeleteA high profile former environmental attorney turned developer may claim that we are splintered, but that would be more of a personal evaluation of his own positions on Encinitas issues.
And is a ploy by said attorney to create an impression that something nonexistent exists.
DeleteIt's the job of council to respect resident wishes, not impose personal "desires" on said residents. Barth's weekly one-note "newsletter" that touts stack 'n pack as some universally-loved wave of the future (if only everyone would get on board) is super annoying. She was not elected to cram some social experiment down our throats, but sure has taken it upon herself to try to do just that.
She lives in a condo and has to have others who have worse places to live to feel better about herself. She talks about how young people and seniors want to live in boxes. She talks about how workers want to "share office spaces," yet has her own office.
DeleteThe attorneys on the harassment complaint said that the only thing that could be said is that there is a lack of civility, which is not a legally defined nor a binding issue, so that has to be her main "achievement" as mayor so that she does not look wrong. Well, she has been unable to do that either.
Many of us voted for Barth, but I feel like we put someone in office who wanted to use her position for personal reasons based on an individual definition of a private morality that she expects other people to understand yet doesn't apply to herself when she disagrees with citizens. What a waste of time, and how damaging she has been to her supporters and to the city.
7:31
DeleteI agree with the asseement that Barth is actually a selfish person using office for her own personal reasons.
I supported Barth with energy and money, donating and walking streets etc. She has turned out to be a Liar- as shown with the PRop A lie, a supporter of back room deals- as shown with Lew Edwards, a fiscal juvenile- as seen with overspending for PV and a mean bully as shown with her latest newsletter and the way she has treated the public for 2 years
Shaffer and Kranz are happy to go along with her - led by VIna, and each is equally shameful in the self seeking leadership- Shaffer by abandoning any ethics she claims to have and Phony Tony siding with developers and out of towners.
Yes, a waste of time, Barth really is a horrible 'me-first' failed selfish leader- no idea what she is like in her personal life.
You people aren't seeing the new wave of home buyers to Encinitas. Yes, they like the quaint look around them but they like even better buying new larger homes or buying older homes and remodel them. They have the money to do either, especially paying the higher Encinitas price for an older home and then still having the money to afford to remodel.
DeleteMany of the new subdivisions have homes in the 4 to 5 thousand square feet range and they appear to sell like hot cakes. Drive around and see all the remodel/teardowns in Leucadia and Cardiff.
Most of us couldn't afford to buy our house now even with 20% down. Change is happening in Encinitas with or without the council.
I also completely disagree that Prop A has supposedly "splintered the slow growth crowd." How so? If anything, we are more united thanks to Prop A.
DeleteGJ, to me, it appears your perspective is splintered, not the public's overwhelming desire to retain our community character, our quality of life, by holding expansion special interests in check.
The point is that Encinitas does not need the high density development ad social engineering proposed by Shaffer and Barth.
ReplyDeleteStack and Pack is here-
DeleteI drove the PCH to Solana Beach this week end to hike Torrey Pines. The lot's in Solana Beach next to CVS and also on the North side of the B of A street light have story poles for huge massive developments.
The story poles are not the small town zoning of 30% lot coverage but the stack and pack Pacific Station zoning of lot line to lot line madness-
Of course all this loss of open space puts pressure on air quality and the enviornment and the increased density means more cars and pollution-
Barth and the council lied on Prop A-
By the way GJ- I also went by Pacific Station and to my eye the siding is already wearing out and streaking - just like the low income state housing projects I grew up with - dingy and drab.
Donna spoke it so clearly the other week at the so called strategic meeting sponsored by Sandag's vision of what we should want. Not even close Sandag. She said we didn't want it 20 years ago, 10 years ago, not now. Stop bringing this back endlessly. Thanks Donna for your frankness.
ReplyDeleteDonna speaks for many, many of us!
ReplyDeleteNo, we do not want stack and pack development to ruin our city. Prop A did not divide our city. We said we want a say in what happens here and that message was sent loud and clear. If Shaffer, Barth and Kranz don't get it, I suggest they move elsewhere (perhaps to Seattle, San Francisco or Washington). Believe me, they will not be missed.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile our streets are falling apart....
ReplyDelete6:45 AM
ReplyDeleteThe streets will continue to fall apart. This Wednesday's staff report for the council outlines the procedure of only taking care of the arterial main roads and letting the other roads fall into disrepair.
I'm all for preserving older, small buildings and districts where the buildings are functional, and the architecture will stand the test of time. I think of Pearl St. in Boulder, CO, and SoHo in NY as excellent examples of beautiful old buildings contributing to character.
ReplyDeleteHowever. . .
I also think it would be silly to "preserve" every building in a town--not every building is worth saving. I also believe in the value of "age-diverse buildings." Having a variety of ages, styles, and sizes of buildings is a good thing.
The elephant in the room of this post is Pacific Station. My personal opinion is that it's not great--probably a little too big and intense, but not a disaster. No one is being forced to live there. I find the Bier Garden window dust up silly. Residents there bought a residence at a RAILROAD-THEMED development, 25 ft. from a grade-level crossing that requires 2am freight trains to blast a 140 dB horn. Are you kidding me? Also, let's not forget that there was a hideous powder-blue 1970's steel building on the site. Does anyone really think that monstrosity was more pleasing to the eye, or worthy of preservation?
I used to eat breakfast at Honey's 2-3 times a week. I could watch the sun come up over the hill and get warm
DeleteNow the sun is blocked by pacific station and the sidwalk is cold-
also, the town looks like- in my my opinon- crap
Pipes in Cardiff is still a small town cafe- but with barth and shaffer looking to ruin cardiff with their overlay zones - how long will peipes be here?
*:10
Delete"the town looks like- in my my opinon (sic)- crap"
I've heard this a lot, please explain. Did you really like the 101 corridor better before they put planters, trees, and new sidewalks? Most of the old buildings downtown are still there, but the decayed storefronts and rusted signs (e.g. the old carpet store) have been renewed and repainted. Sure it's sad to see old businesses like Longboard Grotto go, but keeping and renovating those buildings for new tenants is exactly the positive thing described in WCs post.
If your ideal goal for Encinitas is to put it in a time capsule as it was in 1970, then I think you are hell bent on being unhappy. There is no town on earth that keeps the same tenants and buildings forever.
Final question: if you think the town looks like crap and has been ruined, then why not find a better place? I would not live in a place if it made me sad and I thought property values would suffer.
I think you are intentionally over-stating the case because some decisions have been made that you don't agree with. I also don't agree with every decision, but I think this town is so cool that it would take more than a few bad decisions to make it "crap." Encinitas is still a groovy place. Sit on the benches above Swami's and watch the sun set--walk on the beach--ride through town in a convertible--then if you still think it's a crappy place, don't suffer; I urge you to find a different place that will contribute to your happiness.
9:09
DeleteYou want a different new encinitas- fine
I wanted to preserve what the zoning was when I bought here -before the special interest developers hijacked the council
I liked Honey's with the sun- I don't like Honey's in the shade. so I now go to Pipes or up to Del Mar and the Americana Cafe
Yes, I am leaving not only Encinitas but the state. I will maintain a home here as by the grace of god and my own hard work I am positioned to do so but I will be leaving for a different state where there are no state taxes. I looked at a $30,000 car purchase this week and decided to wait until I move to save the 8% sales tax to pay state pensioners and the bullet train to no where-
Encinitas has lost it's orginal small town charm- Barth Stocks VIna Gaspar Phony Tony and Muir have destroyed our former community characther-
Cardiff thaks to the specific plan still has small town zoning but Barth and Shaffer and Kranz want to do the Vina/Norby overlay zone and upzone the strawberry fields to high density transit villages-
I am entitled to my opinion downtown 101 is crap- I never go there anymore. Drunks and open bar windows are not a small town, eating breakfast in the shade is not for me
I am quite happy with my life and my decisions, even the wrong headed choice to support Barth, Shaffer and Kranz. I am quite happy with my happiness and my life, which is why I don't go to downtown Encinitas for anything
9:41,
DeleteI disagree with your assessment of Encinitas, but I respect your "pursuit of happiness." Good for you making decisions and life changes to actively create a happy life.
I have made similar decisions in the past--that's how I got here years ago, and I still consider myself very fortunate and proud to live here.
Encinitas residents LIKE the way it is now, and we don't want to be an Orange County town. Prop A voters have spoken and the developers need to move on--or I would invite them to move out and go elsewhere.
DeleteAny place that tries to stay frozen in time will die. There will be changes whether you want it or not. The trick is how to guide the change to desirable ends. No Pacific Station, no Whole Foods so no grocery store in downtown. Let those residents drive to the store. After all this is SoCal, home of the car culture.
DeleteI'm not much of a fan of Whole Foods, but they are making Seaside Market a better market. But I disagree with you - downtown needed a market. It always had one, so why should it go away. If I lived downtown, perhaps the higher WF prices wouldn't bother me since I wouldn't be driving to the store. Look what's in my neighborhood - 7-11, Sprouts and Harvest Ranch - talk about all over the board!!!
Delete- The Sculpin
1:55 PM
DeleteI live in Leucadia and we have Just Peachy, which I try to frequent but it's small. I also try to shop at Seaside Market when I'm in the area, I like the vibe. Maybe Whole Foods would have opened in downtown anyway but they would have had to find the available square feet and probably would have located outside downtown. If I remember correctly I think there were incentives to locate in Pacific Station.
Even though it's not that much closer than Home Depot, I try to shop at Ace Hardware in downtown. While Ace is a major corporation, the store's scale is nicer and it has a lot of stuff, more than you think. It just doesn't have stacked pallets of the same stuff.
Sprouts in Olivenhain? Did I miss something? If you include Sprouts, why not Vons? Stater Bros. on the north end and Jimbo's just over the border.
Oops - I meant Henry's on RSF Rd. Von's and Stater Bros are much farther than the three I mentioned.
Delete- The Sculpin
9:41, enjoy Florida or Texas, they're hot hope you don't have to rent a car.
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax#States_with_no_individual_income_tax
BTW, all this stuff about small town character is a bit absurd. We still have a great local character, because a lot of people fought to keep it that way. Café IPE is a great addition, and we loved Longboard Grotto. It's great to have restaurants in Leucadia, but yes, parking is an issue.
DeleteNothing will remain the same, if you live in So Cal, you know that. Land gets built on. Developers will leave town when all the big parcels are built out. We'll never be OC, but we'll never be Encinitas in 1980 either.
Such is life. Did you someone actually say they don't like shade at Honey's? LOL!
San Diego was once a sleepy Navy town. No more. Most of us who have been here awhile can remember the large undeveloped tracks of land all around the county. Remember when you could really feel like cruising up the 101 along the ocean. Carlsbad has put an end to that.
DeleteThe point is that Encinitas is effected by the forces around it. We aren't a small beach town anymore. Many of the owners of those greenhouses that helped give our city seal its identity have been selling their properties for housing subdivisions. And it's not like they don't know what will happen to their property.
Bemoan change all you want but that won't stop it. The question is how will it change not will it. There are no drawbridges on the city borders to raise. Encinitas is not an island.
Remember you all want to keep a small town flavor then miss smarty pants know it all tells us how preserving the Longboard Grotto and morphing it into surfy surfy and cafe Ipe was wrong. Ha!!!
ReplyDeletegood point.
DeleteI have no idea what you're talking about unless you think the transition of the Longboard Grotto (whose proprietor retired as I understand it) to Surfy Surfy is somehow incompatible with smart growth is just wrong. Also, the LB Grotto's building was in terrible shape (a least the exterior) and now looks quite nice.
DeleteMany people here conflate that if something happens once, it's going to be allowed everywhere and that's just not the case.
1:51, I think you are agreeing with 7:45.
Delete7:45's point was that the restoration and updating of an existing small building (Surfy / Ipe) is exactly the kind of development supported by WC's post. The irony is that many who cheer that report today because it rejects rip and replace development, also object to the Surfy / Ipe conversion.
2:08 PM
DeleteI personally don't like the term "Smart Growth" but you're mistaken if you think smart growth is all about tearing down the old and replacing it with all new high density. If that were the case, then we can just call it Urban Renewal and take a trip back to the late '50's-early '60's where whole city blocks were razed.
Yes, smart growth includes some higher densities where they make sense but it's more about cultivating what you have, adding a few more people to support it, and keeping it vibrant.
Like any term "smart growth" can be bastardized or misunderstood. For those who don't want any change, they'll hate it no matter what you call it. If you accept that some change will happen then the discussion is about the nature of the change.
2:30 PM
DeleteSmart growth is urban renewal. The only difference is that the blocks are razed in shorter sections.
Café IPE is great, it preserves the size and feel of the old building, while adding a valuable business that is walkable. That's it. You can shop there or not shop there, it's that simple.
DeleteI love Encinitas, but will not go to the downtown area. As one of the other bloggers posted "it looks like crap". I feel the same. I dine, walk, and enjoy the beach and sun elsewhere, but not in Encinitas. I know the surfers and drinkers love it here. and NO I am not moving.
ReplyDeleteThe city needs your taxes revenues.... Stay home. Shop local, keep a bloated bureaucrat's salary and pension filled.
DeleteI remember downtown looking like crap in the '70's, but I loved it. The '80's were looking a little sketch, what with all the hair and everything, but I still liked it. The '90's weren't that much better, but I could dig it. 00's were trendy - but still enjoyable, and so far the '10's really haven't been that bad. I enjoy walking all of downtown whether it's with the dogs, or going shopping, or having a meal. Sure there have been some notable disasters, but so what? I think our downtown compares very well against any other beach community!Sure, there may now be shade at Honey's, but the food is still good. My favorite, Q'uero's is always a treat, sun or no sun, and I love trying out the new places. I dunno - I'm kind of shaking my head at some of these comments and it makes me think these posters have much larger issues than shade at Honey's.......shade??....really?!?!?
Delete- The Sculpin
12:30 said "I dine, walk, and enjoy the beach and sun elsewhere, but not in Encinitas."
DeleteI'm curious. Where do you go to do these things? What town nearby has done things so differently--so much better, that you are willing to spend commute time to go there for these activities? Must be a magical place. Please name it.
I just don't get it. If Encinitas has turned to "crap," and you find happiness somewhere else, then why stay and be miserable when you have identified a better option?
1:23 PM
DeleteI also can't think of a beach city in north county that does things better unless they mean there are fewer restaurant/bars in a given area. I like our sister cities for different reasons but not that they are any better, just a little different.
Sculpin:
When you say you remember downtown looking like crap in the '70's but you liked it, did you support it by patronizing the shops? Until efforts in the last few decades to spruce it up, commercial turnover was very high. There are still issues but it's a lot better.
I was using the term "crap" in a somewhat facetious way. That said, I was quite a bit younger and my purchasing power was somewhat more limited than it is today, but yes, I would eat in Encinitas after (horror of all horrors) surfing in Encinitas! I loved Rosanna's (now in new Enc - best Caprese sandwich), Oly's Pizza, and there was a place near the landscape supple store with the messiest subs........
Delete- The Sculpin
Unfortunately, back then there weren't enough of you and of varying demographics. I too enjoy funky downtowns but I consider us too small a subset to make them commercially viable.
DeleteI feel sorry for downtown residents who have to deal with the weekend tourists who come here to drink. Sculpin lives in Olivenhain, so he get to day trip into town during the nice times and doesn't have to clean up after a night of someone else's partying in his yard.
ReplyDeleteHA! That's too funny. You know what I get to clean up? All the people who think Olivenhain is in the middle of nowhere so they just pull up in front of any open space they see (read: someone's private property), open up the tailgate and "party on, Wayne".... When they leave, the coyotes and raccoons check out what's left, and in the morning the crows finish it off. But somehow I don't think you're going to feel very sorry for us folks in Olivenhain cleaning up "after a night of someone else's parting in their yard". Naw - your sympathies lay elsewhere.
Delete- The Sculpin
My, the crosses we bear. Sorry, I just couldn't resist but yes, that would piss me off as well.
DeleteSo count your lucky stars buses don't have tailgates, 1:41.
Delete1:23 Stay curious because I won't tell you where I go which is much, much nicer than dirty downtown Encinitas. I live in a very nice part of Encinitas so I never have to go downtown and I'm happy for that.
ReplyDeleteIf I may say, what a horseshit attitude. "I live in a very nice part of Encinitas" so f**k the rest of you. And I won't tell where I go. I don't know about the rest of the people here but I know the north coast pretty well and nowhere is it better than Encinitas, just different and I appreciate those differences. I do like to visit the other cities but not as a substitute to Encinitas.
DeleteHey 2:32 - are you my neighbor?
Delete- The Sculpin
2:38 Every one is entitled to their preferences. I never said "F" the rest of you. If that's what you thought you read, then I suggest you take some reading and comprehension courses. I like where I go; you like where you go. Let's leave it at that.
Delete2:38 If also forgot to say that I don't like our downtown area because it has been ruined by the drinkers. It looks like fifth and it is my choice to not be around "crap" like that. The city is too busy spending money on trophy projects to really clean this city up and make it look nice.
Deletecardiff by the sea has so far been spared the high density stack and pack and the accompanying bars that go with them-
Deletethis because people like Donna, Bob Bonde and the residents committee stood up to city staff, city planners and city facilitators that were willing to tell untruths to the public
Kranz and Gaspar along with Barth and Shaffer all want to ruin and destroy Cardiff by building high density transit stack and pack at the strawberry fields and an overlay zone on cardiff by the sea
they not only upport Vina, they support the failed leadeship of Norby
This city will never spend money to make the city look nice.
DeleteCrap it is, crisp it shall always be.
4:24 & 4:26 PM
DeleteI have very good reading comprehension and your attitude came shining through.
11:33 If someone doesn't agree with you it appears you like to name call and twist words to your liking. Your attitude sucks, so I suggest you find something better to do with your time like go scoop up some dog shit. Yes, I have an attitude and proud of it.
Delete6:46 PM
DeleteI guess I struck a nerve but you can nurse it at those special secret places you hang out at and since you won't tell us where, we probably won't be "harshing your mellow". And now that you mention it, I do feel like I just scooped up some shit.
Whenever high density projects replace nice older homes with big lots it is a shame for Encinitas--no matter which neighborhood we are talking about. This is the reason we became a city in the first place, to combat projects that threatened our community character under the county.
ReplyDeleteMay I suggest someone buy the Besta-Wan Pizza property and forever keep it as is , only $3.25M. That's a bargain for maintaining your communities heritage and legacy.
ReplyDeleteI'll buy it and keep that way if you'll loan me the cash!
DeleteSure, you want a 30 year, no interest deal?? It's works for PV.....
Delete