The current city council has continued prior councils' practice of not providing written summary minutes of council discussion, but only "action minutes" which state the outcomes. Encinitas Undercover will provide a forum for observers to record what occurs at each council meeting.
Please use the comments to record your observations.
I hope that someone will ask Gaspar this evening how Andreen got the list for that cozy meeting. We deserve to know what is going on
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you go and ask?
ReplyDelete5:17 I can't be there tonight.
ReplyDeleteJust when does your Dad unchain you and take you for a walk?
ReplyDeleteIf you were paying attention, someone asked Kristin that same question during the last 2 council meetings.
She doesn't know. She didn't need to know: still doesn't.
Impossible to believe, plus she just stares at her desk whenever the topic comes up. She lost her opportunity to lie about not knowing the first time she was asked.
DeleteAny question on why Gaspar should not get your vote?
DeleteWasn't sure about her before but watching Blakepsear present tonight leaves me impressed. Smart and articulate on Coral Tree Farm community character issue
DeleteCling to her on this topic, 'cuz it's the only one she's got.
DeleteYou go with your strengths...
DeleteStrength. Singular.
DeleteTopic would be more accurate, she obviously has strengths....
DeleteBarth again with the eye-rolling and face-making. She's channeling Jerome...or just channeling. She looks like she's ready to nod off.
ReplyDeleteWow,,,, Graboi playing the sex offender card.... Bad form and just plain dumb. Her heart may be in the right place but yikes!
ReplyDeleteSo you care to blame the messenger, and not the message? The 1,000' required distance ok to breach? You prefer Graboi be "cool" and not share what she knows?
DeleteYou're joking, right?
DeleteWhat exactly is her "message?" That Council should consider restricting the property rights of people based on the criminal history of their neighbors?
Um, I'm no expert, but I thought the justice system should burden the criminal, not their neighbors.
This woman has a good heart, but let's face it, she's a whack-a-doodle. On the two CC meetings with overflow crowds, she comes up with steam-clean the playgrounds, and now this.
Cue the bobble-head Graboibots.
You're joking, right?
DeleteWhat exactly was Julie's "message?" That council should consider restricting property rights of people based on the criminal history of their neighbors?
Julie has heart, but it's time to face it: she's a whack-a-doodle. On the two biggest CC stages of the year, she came up with steam-cleaning playgrounds, and now this magnum opus of political thought.
Cue the bobble-head Graboi-bots.
Keep on drinking, passing out will make your thoughts more coherent. Julie is great.
DeleteRemember, 99% of voters aren't seeing tonights proceedings, it won't figure into the vote. Julie's ability to win will be measured by whether she can engage voters and get them to vote at all. Right now, I don't think there's a big groundswell of support.
DeleteDon't confuse my comments on this as a lack of support for Julie, she's got my vote, but she has to reach out to that 90% of the electorate that only checks the candidates for a few minutes before voting...
Julie brought up a good point about a sex offender living near by. I would be concerned for my kids. Hope someone is checking this out.
DeleteYes, this goes beyond "criminal history of the neighbors." This guy is too close per state law.
DeleteToo close to what, exactly?
DeletePlease cite the law in question.
Gotta admit, while Graboi's concerns may have merit, it came off more as an attempt to sink her political opponent's battleship rather than looking out for the children. There were other forums where that could have been addressed, such as added to the public record in advance of the meeting.
DeleteBath sliding under the table out of boredom. She could not possibly look like she cared less if she tried.
ReplyDeleteHuh. Someone paying Marco to say too bad, so sad, things change, make room for the traffic.
ReplyDeleteIf you noticed, Marco also said he lived on a private sweet, so Coral Farms would not be able to be where he lives.
DeleteGonzalez took a break from his punk hat backward hoodie costume.
ReplyDeleteAs a silent peaceful protest, I will drive Park Lane every time Ibget a chance until Coral Tree gets a fair resolution.
ReplyDeleteI live a coupe blocks away, and drop my son at SDA daily, so should be pretty regular.
I will not speed. honk, yell, or do anything illegal or rude--just exercising my right to drive a public road. If neighbors notice me, I will simply smile and wave.
I encourage others to do the same.
I had to leave early, and I drove up to the cul-de-sac on Park Ln, turned around, and quietly drove out.
DeleteI spun donuts while hitting my awooga horn!
Delete7:56 should a commerical business be allowed where it is not allowed? At least it wasn't allowed until the council violated the zoning laws to benefit the election chance of Blakespeat-
DeleteThe residents wanted to know why it tootk 9 months to get on the agenda- Mayor Barth held it off the agenda to wait until fall to get votes for VIna
12:53,
DeleteAny council member could have put it on the agenda--your tin foil hat is too tight.
And since you asked, here is what I am for:
I am for supporting small, local, organic family farms, and any accessory uses that keep them financially viable. I am for food that doesn't have to be picked too early, bounced around in a truck where 1/3 of it gets bruised and wasted, bred for transport instead of flavor and nutrition, and adds traffic and excessive fuel burn to get to my kitchen. I'm for supporting alternative uses to slow the building of more bland homogenous stucco boxes in our neighborhoods. I also support the adoption of a local urban ag ordinance that invents and supports all of these ideals. Finally, I support our collective right to use the public street at Park Lane as a way to express support for CTF. Last night, two council members disclosed that they had done drive bys of CTF prior to the hearing. I think we should symbolically follow their lead, and quietly and safely drive by CTF to send a message of support for CTF, and to let the neighbors see that support first hand, daily.
I understand and empathize with the neighbors. There is no doubt that having a small commercial farm on the street adds traffic. There is a burden--a sacrifice, and the rest of is should acknowledge and appreciate it. But it's clear that the negative impact to a handful of neighbors is outweighed by the benefit CTF brings to the community at large.
Incents not invents.
DeleteDamn you spellcheck.
If anyone else wants to do a drive by, here are some directions to Park Ln:
DeleteFrom Encinitas Blvd:
-as Quail Gardens Drive crosses Encinitas Blvd, it continues south called Westlake.
-drive south on Westlake about 1/3 mile. Turn right at the first stop sign at Reqeza.
-Turn left at the next stop sign onto Regal Rd.
- Park Ln is the first street on your left. Coral Tree Farm is at the end.
From Santa Fe Drive:
- Regal Rd is the freeway frontage road just East of I-5 (Carls Jr).
-Take Regal north about 1/2 mile. Park Lane will be on the right just before Regal ends at Requeza.
Please be nice. No honking, speeding, yelling, reving. Smile and wave. Smile and wave.
You seriously have nothing better do to? Your suggestion is ridiculous.
Delete7:46 so misses the point about a respectful, responsible community farm which has been there for decades. The "change and traffic" is mostly due to the new residents to the street, the same folks who are now complaining about the small community farm.
ReplyDeleteIf I want to, oh, I don't know, say--host political fundraisers at my house, that would create traffic, noise, and parking issues on my residential street, similar to Coral Tree Farn, right?
ReplyDeleteI wonder how fast Council would vote to protect my right to raise money for them?
Of the three candidates who spoke tonight, Blakespear was waaaayyyy better than the other two. Sheila was bad and (sorry to say it) Julie was horrible.
ReplyDeleteWhat was horrible about Julie? She reported on one very distasteful fact that most normal parents would want to know about.
DeleteJulie's not a hands down great speaker, but she has done the work. It's a tough road ahead vs. Blakespeare.
DeleteJust one night.
ReplyDeleteBarth won't shout as she fiddles about.
DeleteDid anyone hear the comment from one speaker that said one of the council members had written an email in support of Coral Farms? None of the Council stated that they had done anything wrong to recuse themselves. I was there, and several of us heard it. We went into the main lobby to see what emails had been sent to and from council. There was no email about this. I can't help but wonder if it was 1) not true what the citizen said or 2) the email was not in the files it was supposed to be in. I would vote for #2 but cannot prove anything. Anyone have any insights into this?
ReplyDeleteKeith Harrison is here talking again to try to mix up the council. Remember the things that he said about Prop A that were not true?
ReplyDeleteYes, he had his famous stick drawing of a 30' trellis that was an out and out lie. Too bad Prop A got between him and his "boutique hotel."
DeleteHe was not more honest tonight than he was on Prop A: his list of henny pennys were recommendations, not regulations, but he neglected to mention that minor distinction.
He missed his calling as an auctioneer. If he thought he was dazzling folks with his intellect, he was dead wrong: he managed very nicely to do just the opposite. Talk about expressions of "WTF?" on everyone from the audience to the council.
Keith Harrison is more informed than you on the nitty gritty details than you. It's difficult for you to read, but it's true.
DeleteWeirdest moment of the night by far: Shaffer thinks that excluding retention basins from the developable acreage calculations (thus reducing the amount of land available to the developer to stuff houses on) applies only to EXISTING detention basins.
ReplyDeleteUm...um...most raw land does not come with a detention basin already there. Like...who would have built it? Definitely weird moment first place award.
I can't believe I voted for Shaffer!
ReplyDeleteI can't believe how Shaffer can take one simple matter and twist it and turn it every which way and not only confuse herself, but everyone else. She is one scrambled brain.
DeleteBlakespear lost. She thought she'd walk out with a win for her groupies who kept whining about how earthy they were. But the whole thing got kicked into next year sometime and Murphy and Sabine actually pinned the losers down on the CC as to what was permitted. Julie's testim about the child sexual abuser didn't go far enough. Look it up on the registry map. Kenneth Alton Hornback lives at 595 Park Lane. Coral Tree Farms is next door or on the same property at 598 Park Lane. Took about 5 minutes to find.
ReplyDeleteSo what happened on retention basins and the Desert Rose grandfathering?
ReplyDeleteCouncil punted on both.
DeleteRetention basins appeared to them more complicated than they had originally thought, so they decided not to vote on option A or B, but to include it in the discussions regarding all density bonus calculations. Scheffer had to ask Murphy about three times to clarify that local residents would be included in those discussions. Murphy confirmed their opions would be "listened to". Very reassuring - NOT!
Desert Rose - first, WOW! Marco Gonzalez is a grade A $#!? isn't he? He's the reason everyone hates lawyers. After he told the residents of Park Lane, things change, no guarentees when you buy a house. Too bad, so sad, move on. An hour later he tried to cry no fair that the rules changed on his client. When it was clear he wasn't going to get the answer he wanted, he pulled the inevitable law suit threat out, which resulted in Scheffer clamming up and insisting the discussion move to close session. Muir was fine continuing in open session, but council voted 3-2 in support of Lisa. They guy speaking on behalf of Dessert Rose said it best - council doesn't need to give the developer any kind of response; it's pretty clear - if the Appeal loses, the original approval is vacated - the developer has to go back to the start; if the Appeal wins, they continue where they left off. This is just Gonzalez trying to bully Council into giving reassuances they don't need to give at this point. Too bad, so sad, Marco. Move on!
Delete9:55 this was an example of what will happen when the HEU is changed and commerical and ag properyt is rezoned for residential
DeleteIn walks Marco bullying and threatening lawsuits against towns and taxpayers-
now his sister is writing the laws in Sacramento
You want to keep Marco and those like him out of Encinitas- vote no to the housing element-
Julie was horrible - she made the dumbest argument of the night. Even the families who live on the street didn't mention the sex offender or use that to support their position. Her comments were as lame as her earlier statements about steamcleaning playgrounds. She and Lisa Shaffer are dumb and dumber
ReplyDeleteLets just say the real estate value on park dale just went way down. No way I want my kids near an offender, knowledge is good.
DeleteNow if she said steamclean offenders, it may have been different.
DeleteI thought Julie's approach was a mistake. Information is good, but it should have been verified that the individual still lives at that address. What if someone like that moved in near the Grabois? Would they become stigmatized because of past misconduct of a neighbor, particularly one which they had no knowledge of?
DeleteJulie should have supported Coral Tree Farm, and the principles that apply to it, which are citywide issues about property rights, and what constitutes legal non-conforming.
Planning is given too much discretion to decide when a minor use permit is required. Because of the controversy, this issue have gone to the Planning Commission.
Also, Kerry Kuziak was wrong when he said a roadside stand requires a minor use permit. That determination depends on the size of the stand.
Are both parcels which includes Coral Tree farm owned by the same family?
DeleteSo 7:31 you support expanding uses for children on a property adjacent to a registered sex offender ?! Sounds like YOU are the dumbest of them all. Or is this Hornback blogging?
ReplyDeleteEveryone on Park Lane got a mailing about the sex offender several years ago. It wasn't something that they could use against Coral Tree. Some people just have to throw everything against the wall and see what sticks, no matter what.
ReplyDeleteJulie could not have known about the mailing. Other than that, any discussion outside the code was a waste of valuable time. Even Blakespear's mommy was all over the place...talk about throwing everything at the wall.
Delete7:54 a few years ago bus loads of kids were'nt being shipped up to the far, today those kids are. As a parent I thank Ms. Graboi for letting the rest of us know a sex offender lives in the area - it is a good public service and oputs the heat on the sex offender, this is a good thing
DeleteAs a father I thank Julie. Can't understand why others don't want to protect their kids from predators.
DeleteYou can't assume that "predator" is still there, or wasn't rehabilitated. All caring parents do want to protect our kids from predators.
DeletePlaying that card brings sensationalism into an issue of property rights, and what constitutes legal nonconforming. It's a distraction, and attempts to manipulate with fear.
I support Julie Graboi's candidacy, but not her approach on this issue; she would have been wise to support Coral Tree Farm, despite the fact that her council seat opponent is the lawyer representing Coral Tree Farm's owners, at no charge.
Are both parcels which includes Coral Tree farm owned by the same family?
DeleteSexual Predator is different than convicted sex offender, which covers a wide array of offenses and time periods. You don't get to remove that label from your docket once convicted. Easy to broad brush something you know nothing about, and no I don't support offenders living just anywhere and I don't know the details of this guy's case, and I'm not looking it up.
DeleteSensationalism? Privlidged feminist squawking that coral tree is the only place for a ggarden? They are everywhere - Cardiff elementary, oak knolls etc, that is sensationalism..............namaste
Delete2:15 Julie did not say that she did not support Coral Tree Farm. Please stop spreading untruths.
DeleteJulie did not say she did not support is not the same as saying she does support CTF and urban ag. Please stop spreading exaggeration, overstatement and misunderstanding about other comments, and keep your opinions and judgments on the Council Meeting, not your fellow anon commentators.
DeleteYou are an idiot- "or wasn't rehabilitated"
Deletethat just doesn't happen. You are one stupid mo fo.
You can't assume that the sexual offender is a sexual predator.
DeleteEveryone is supposed to be given a chance to repent. You are judging a situation about which you know none of the details. How do you know that "just doesn't happen?
You are stupid and crude to use your mother's name in vain.
So . . .
ReplyDeleteThe residents of Park Lane got a written notice about a sex offender moving in a few years ago . . .
. . . but that didn't cause them to raise hell.
No.
It was that damned family-owned organic farm that upset them enough to make a stink.
So, in the minds of the Park Lane residents, a few Priuses are a bigger threat to their children than the felon creeper down the street convicted of lewd conduct on a child. (?) (!)
Have I got that right?
Is it just me that finds this odd?
Perhaps they did raise hell with the sheriff's department and were told nothing can be done. Coral Tree farms is now catering to children. Shouldn't Coral Tree farms have a large sign that alerts parents that there is a sex offender next door or on the same property?
ReplyDeleteBlakespear didn't do her due diligence or maybe she did but didn't want to reveal the sex offender fact.
With all due respect (not much), that's one of the dumbest suggestions, ever. Ever.
DeleteYou are suggesting we place the burden on the creeper's neighbor?
If you want a sign, fine, but it goes on the creeper's lawn, not the neighbor.
The punishment, consequences, and burden of a felony conviction should be borne exclusively by the convict. Either that, or you have to brand ALL the neighbors with the same scarlet letter. After all, the kid who visits a home for a play date is equal to the kid planting seeds.
Agree, 10:52.
DeleteAre both parcels which includes Coral Tree farm owned by the same family?
DeleteAnswer for 2:27. Yes there is a parcel for 595 Park Lane which is owned by Christina Schmidt Hornback, wife of convicted sex offender Kenneth Alton Hornback, who resides there. There is no separate parcel for 598 CTF. It is on the same property. Mr Hornback was convicted of lewd and lascivious behavior on a child under 14. What are these airhead organic earthy moms thinking defending this?!
DeleteCorrection to September 29 12:02 PM: 595 Park Lane (Hornback) and 598 Park Lane (CTF) are separate parcels with separate owners and have been for well over a decade.
DeleteDoes the city council have a duty to consider the fact that a sex offender is listed at an address next to Coral Tree Farms? Is there a state law that the council must follow in considering a fact that may be a public safety issue?
ReplyDeleteIf we had a smart mayor (which we don't) or a smart city manager (which we don't) they would put an agenda together in a different manner. The last couple of council meetings ended within a couple of hours. It appeared that there wasn't much business to conduct.
ReplyDeleteLast night's agenda was loaded with three very important issues and at the end of the meeting everyone was too tired to understand what the hell was going on. It ended up that the three very important issues didn't get anywhere.
How about next time, you pick one important item per meeting so there is time to research, digest the subject, and make an informed decision.
What I saw last night was dumb, dumber and dumbest.
Obviously, you 12:29 have never been put in charge of anything. Your advice is pretty funny.
Delete1:18 with all respect this is the way Vina manipulates the council- let's face it, in prison terms the council would be called Vina's..........well you get the point.
DeleteVina loaded up the agenda to tire out the council so they would just cave in and take the recommendation of staff
I supported Lisa Shaffer, I think she has done a horrible job, but she did the right thing last might moving to a closed session- the council was no way prepared to make a decision, buying time was the right thing to.
1:18 You shouldn't speak unless you know what you are talking about. I have put together plenty of agendas in my life time and they all worked out in a productive way. It sounds like you have no knowledge of how to get business accomplished.
Delete2:02 You reveal your idiocy for all to see- this council does not get business accomplished, in large measure because Vina only wants the business done that he chooses-
DeleteVina also uses various last minute strategies to force the council to vote.
Obviously you didn't see the meeting last night, if you had you would have know the council was punch drunk by 10 pm, go listen to the Mayor's voice and personality change as it gets later and later
Perhaps you've watched too many movies:
Delete"I am the great and powerful Wizard of Oz (city manager)"
"Do not arouse the wrath of the great and powerful Oz (city manager)"
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain (Gus Vina)"
And like the movie, many comments here are a fantasy.
Who plays the Wicked Witch of the West? "Just try and stay out of my way. Just try! I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog, too!"
2:47 I watched the entire meeting. Crawl back in your hole and fight with someone else. Vina helps the mayor set the agenda you dummy. I know what he is doing and so do the rest of us.
DeleteGo have another beer, glass of wine, or smoke. Might change your bitter attitude.
Or maybe those setting the agenda didn't want important decisions made tonight. While Occam's razor usually points to stupidity, don't rule out deviousness.
ReplyDeleteEU The word "devious" came to mind. It's all part of the Vina program that council has bought into. When will they learn that they are in charge?
DeleteBlakespear blew it by touting her pro bono good heart but not mentioning the sex offender next door or on the Coral Tree Farm information. Ask her if she will continue to take her children to the farm with her new gained knowledge.
ReplyDeleteSome cities prohibit sex offenders in single family neighborhoods.
1:42 If Blakespear knew or didn't know about this sex offender, then she certainly was remiss in her duties. I would not want my children attending that so called "farm".
DeleteAlso, I don't think this "farm" is big enough to supply all the organic food for every resident of this city which totals over 63,000 people. The remarks that were made by some people that food had to be brought by trucks from long distances was absolutely ludicrous. Do they think this little "farm" will produce that much? I think not.
Yes.
DeleteLet's close every business that does not serve all 63,000 residents.
* poof *
No more Pannikin.
Goodbye hospital.
Later, surf shops.
No businesses of any stripe left in Encinitas.
Whether or not there is a sex offender in the neighborhood is really not relevant to the whether or not CTF can continue to operate as a farm. The farm was there before the offender was placed in the neighborhood. If CTF offers tours to children, it is not obligated to also disclose that a sex offender lives in the proximity of the farm. If he lived on the farm, or was an employee of the farm, then the situation would be different. Does the church across the street have to disclose to its parishioners that a sex offender resides close to Sunday or pre/post school classes? No, so why is it any different for CTF?
DeleteI agree with 8:49 and 2:07. Julie tried to make her comments relevant to her campaign - a good call - but the subject matter was not relevant, and it did nothing to differentiate herself from Catherine. And it doesn't matter that 90% of Encinitas voters didn't see this. What matters is that she knew this was coming, she prepared for it, and this is what her response was. How will her responses be any different when she's in front of an agnostic group? It's tough to think, act and speak politically - not everyone can do it - I'm disappointed. The silver lining is if she is unsuccessful in November, she'll keep doing what she's doing - and maybe that's more important.
- The Sculpin
Does anyone know with 100% confidence the guy is still there? Just askin!
DeleteI'm glad Julie was ready, my point was a little different on Julie. My point is that win or lose at council, so to speak, doesn't matter. Very few people watch or go. It doesn't matter that the 50-100 people who read the blog score it for Julie or Blakespeare. What matters is the big money mailers, the face time, the knowledge about who is even running for what seat! All important in winning that battle are Money, followed by money, starting early and connections in the community. Blakespeare leads in all categories. She will be your winner, and I'll save my breath for the next month.
-MGJ
2:17 If you would have comprehended what I wrote, maybe your response would have been different. I was simply pointing out that some who spoke in favor of the farm indicated that if they continue to produce food or whatever they grow there, that the citizens would not have to rely upon trucks bringing the food to the stores and causing more gas emission problems. They were stupid statements and again I will say that this little farm only makes a difference to a handful of people in this city. It has nothing to do with closing any other businesses. That was a stupid statement by you.
Delete2:41 I don't think Julie was pointing out the sex offender situation to close down Coral Farms. She was letting people be aware of the situation. There are many parents who don't want their children near a sex offender and I don't blame them a bit.
DeleteI'm glad Julie did some research and found this out. Parents will now be more aware and one less child hopefully will be saved by this person.
That's the least we can do for our children.
I should have said "saved from this person" not "saved by this person".
DeleteWhy didn't Shaffer or Barth disclose to the public that they had donated to Blakespear's campaign? If there was nothing to hide, why did they hide it? What happened to all the trust bullshit Barth puts in her newsletters?
DeleteBarth and Shaffer, along with the others, feel they can do whatever they want.
DeleteDid you notice that Gaspar and Muir voted NO for a closed meeting on Desert Rose. They were desperately trying to help their friend Marco who represents ---- guess what ----- a developer.
Gonzales is a smart ass and is cocky as hell. May the judge bite him in this back end. So he threatens to sue the city --- I say, bring it on.
Just because Blakespear leads in money does not automatically equate to a win. Francine Busby is a great fundraiser and lost 3 elections in a row. Sherry Hodges had a financial lead in her campaign against Rocky Chavez until the end, but lost by 15 points. Pam Slater-Price has won every campaign that she ever entered and she always had less money. In Encinitas, elections are not for sale. People are more interested in ideas and what candidates stand for instead of how many out of town donors they may have.
DeleteYes, we citizens are tired of people "buying" their way into office.
DeleteWhere have you been? Gaspar bought her way into office along with doing her stupid stunts - nothing has changed.
DeleteMuir bought his way into office - "tried and tested" was his motto, I think it should have been "tried to taste it all".
3:49,
DeleteI comprehend.
You were using the perfection fallacy--suggesting that if some solution does not solve 100% of the problem, then it should be considered a failure.
In this case, the problem is food grown far away, picked green and transported here with waste, traffic, and pollution. You suggested that since CTF is too small to serve 63,000 people, that it fails to solve the problem.
A more reasonable standard would compare A functioning CTF, to a scenario where CTF is forced out of business by the neighbors and the city. Every tomato grown at CTF displaces the need for one to be imported. If CTF can provide enough veg for a few dozen households and a couple of restaurants, that displaces tsome number of trucks full of lesss nutritious, more wasteful food.
Clearly, we are better with CTF than without it, even though it does not solve the whole problem by serving all 63,000 residents.
My earlier post was a sarcastic poke at your use of the perfection fallacy. In fact, no business in Encinitas serves all 63,000 residents, so why apply this unreasonable standard to CTF?
See the point now?
6:19 Here is a reality. The food trucks will not stop. They will continue to deliver food and they will emit those awful gas emissions into the air for all to breathe.
DeleteThere is no perfection here -- just common sense that a small and I mean a really small farm will only supply a few bushels of tomatoes for someone. But, the trucks will still come.
I am not against Coral Tree Farm in any way. I'm glad they can produce and provide whatever they grow and they can sell it to us. My preference is buying organic at the stores I shop at where I can buy all I need in one place.
If Coral Tree Farms wants to grow in size, perhaps they should consider purchasing available property in the city so that their small business can become bigger and help supply more people within this city.
Other than that, I do feel for the residents who have had to put up with the increased traffic and I think the council did the right thing in putting this issue off because now all the other activities there have to cease until a decision is made on the use of the property.
That is my point and I'm sticking with it.
Fair enough.
DeleteIf we get a good urban Ag ordinance, we could have 20 Coral Tree Farms spread throughout town.
I agree with you that the trucks won't go away completely, but again, that's not the standard for success for urban farming. If small local farms achieve 30% market share, that is 30% less imported produce-- 30% more nutritious and fresher fiood. 30% market share is better than 0% market share.
If we don't support a viable financial alternative for land owners, expect more and denser development. If you think farm traffic is the problem, consider the alternative.
I don't think anyone has asked the question about the necessary water needed to produce good crops. With the drought situation in California, and now that we are restricted in our water usage, what does that do to the water needed for these farms?
DeleteGood question, but most of our vegetables come from the imperial valley, using the same water sources. Probably a wash (pun intended). Encinitas uses less water noe than we did a few decades ago. There's a table at the back of the City's financial report.
DeleteGaspar and Muir Dumb and Dumber as always.
ReplyDeleteDrive by just now.
ReplyDeleteI just drove up to the Coral Tree Farm on Park Street. Those are some nice digs for a sex offender, and since it is such a small street, I'd say there's PLENTY of opportunity for someone such as that to be a problem.
ReplyDeleteIt is truly amazing that all of you policy wonks at there on this blog really don't really know much about anything. Just a bunch of speculation and hyperbole on this blog these days.
ReplyDeleteAn echo chamber for the angry and bitter who don't want things to change in their safe and secure false reality.
A conduit for people unable to tolerate opposing viewpoints of what our city should be like in the future.
There are 60,000 plus of us in Encinitas and this blog does not represent all of us nor does it give us a clear and accurate picture of what is really going on in this city.
5:33 So, why are here?
DeleteTypo = "why are YOU here?"
DeleteI tend to agree w 10:33. I miss the Old Leucadia Blog. Seems there was a more knowledgeable debate back then. Thanks, JP.
DeleteFunny how you attempt to restructure the nature of these opinions/observations. Feeling threatened?
DeleteI disagree with JP -
DeleteWVC puts up articles from everybody and draws a much broader base then the LB ever did. WCV providing the ability for all to post without using names and has increased information put forth in the public domain as there is less fear for reprisal from city hall.
The debate at EU is different and in my opinion more productive than the LB
5:33 echo chamber?
DeleteProp A - passed, scoreboard.
Dalager- run out of town on a rail
Stocks- exposed as the snake he is
Vina- about to go down
HEU about to be challenged
Want to try again?
5:33PM What SHOULD our city be like in the future, O psychic one?
ReplyDeleteIt was interesting to see Gaspar and Muir support the residents and the others support The developers.(Marcos). I heard that Marcos. Gave directly to Shaffer, Barth and Kranz.
ReplyDelete7:52 Quite the opposite in my estimation. Gaspar and Muir wanted to give Marco what he wanted. The others were smart enough to see through it with the help of the city attorney.
Delete7:56 Your making shit up! Watch the council video. Clearly Kranz, Shaffer and Barth backed away from Net acreage and density bonus. Otherwise, it would be law now! As a resident of Olivenhain, I'm pissed at those 3 stooges!
Delete11:04 The council was clearly mixed up on what to vote on so it was a 3-2 vote to not make a decision (as Marco demanded) and take it to closed session. Gaspar and Muir were wanting to give Mar co his way and it didn't work.
DeleteSo funny.... Posters now debating whether Marco is on the Muir/Gaspar side or the Kranz/Barth/Shaffer side. How about this: he's on his clients's side. That's what attorneys do - advocate for their clients - regardless of their perceived allies/enemies on the council or elsewhere. If you've ever hired or needed an attorney that's what you want - somebody willing to fight for you even if it means taking positions contrary to the position advocated by his or her friends
ReplyDelete8:52 Whoa, aren't you smart. You must have gone to school or something.
DeleteHe is on the side that stuffs the most cash in his pocket.
Delete2:41 PM
ReplyDeleteHow would it be different if he lived on the farm?
If Hornback is a family member and lives on the farm, the owners and Catherine Blakespear would be promoting a situation that could be dangerous for children and are asking the city to change permitting that would allow for a registered sex offender to have greater access to kids. Is that good policy? Doesn't it create risk for children and risk to the city if the city were to grant this request and a child was hurt?
ReplyDeleteResearch has shown that sex offenders who target children have the highest recidivism rate of any criminals. Blakespear made comparisons between the farm and day cares, but don't day care workers and those who work near children have to go through background checks? I would hope so. Shouldn't we have higher standards in Encinitas?
Is Hornbacker related to or married to relatives of Coral Tree Farm owners? If so, that is a material fact that their lawyer, Ms. Blakespear, should have shared before asking the city to grant greater access for children in a potentially dangerous situation.
DeleteHornback is married to Christina Schmidt Hornback and resides on the CTF property at 595 Park Lane. He's is Laurel Mehls brother in law. He was convicted of lewd and lascivious behavior with a child under 14. Blakespear knows all this but doesn't want you to know.
Delete27th @ 2:20 PM: The CTF property is 598 Park Lane, Hornback resides on a separate property and parcel at 595 Park Lane.
DeleteA little clarity can be revealed if one were to ask what is the relationship between CTF and this predator living so close by them and why he is where he is.
ReplyDeleteAll those kids playing in the street on Park Lane and their parents and anyone considering taking their kids there should know of the family ties that bind and Catherine knew of this full well all along and chose to ignore for political expediency and having something to grasp onto for the office seeking season.
While this truly is an important thing to know about your neighbors and neighborhood, the lack of knowledge about this very real danger on Catherine's part, especially by an attorney is troubling. Perhaps if it were not a Pro Bono situation, Catherine might have done better due diligence? But, she seems to have hung her hat on this appeal and went down in flames? Plus, Catherine is tied at the hip with Shaffer and as it appears Lisa is leading to a massive waffling by the city council on Desert Rose and Fulvia, watch for the public to begin migrating over to Julie. At least she's not a direct descendant to a developer. Besides, does the city really want more councilwomen who can channel Teresa Barth? Probably not.
ReplyDeleteClarification: The neighbors did not have anything to do with the Sex Offender comment. He is Ms. Mehl's brother in law and yes, lives next door to the CTF.
ReplyDeleteClarification: In 1998, Ms. Mehl and her sister partnered with a real estate developer to convert the land into a new subdivision of 14 residential lots in full compliance with Encinitas ordinances for the R3 single family residential zone. This is a fact.
Clarification: The neighbors were requesting guidelines under a Minor Use permit to bring some harmony to the neighborhood. In 2013, CTF held16 for a fee 'events', plus CSA pick ups, plus open 2 days a week. In 2014, CTF planned and/or had 20 events,plus CSA pick ups, plus open 2 days a week. They draw between 6-30+ cars each time. Parking is on the street, not the farm.
Clarification: The neighbors are not against urban farming, organic food or local business. This was stated multiple times.
Clarification: Teresa Barth wrote a letter supporting CTF in Blakespear's June 6th letter to Jeff Murphy. This is documented. She has also, along with Shaffer, contributed to Blakespear's campaign.
FAKEspear should be ashamed of herself as an attorney, pro bono or not. The fact that this gentleman is family related should have been revealed. Apparently, FAKEspear does not think it very important to protect children.
DeleteThis woman would be a disaster if she were elected to office. What other truths would not be told?
NO to FAKEspear.
So Julie Graboi wasn't so stupid after all notifying us all that a sex offender or predator lived near Coral Tree Farm. Now we hear he is a relative of the family that owns the farm.
DeleteCongratulations to Julie who was smart and diligent, unlike Blakespear.
11:19 - not sure I see your point. He's related to the owners, he does not live or work on the property, and (presumably) he's complying with his probation/reporting/supervision. So how is this relevant to a minor use permit? Why does this need to be disclosed?
Delete11:24 - Politically speaking, yes, Julie was being stupid. She could have disclosed this in a much better way that would have furthered her political aspirations, more along the lines of a win-win - but she choose the wrong forum, the wrong audience, and the wrong message.
- The Sculpin
Wo ! 11:24 is that right, the sex offender is related somehow,and is within the 1,000 foot restriction -
Deletethat is not good
8:46 thank you. Do you think it is trustworthy and transparent that Ms. Barth failed to disclose she had sent the letter, had donated to Blakespear's campaign and had led Blakespear fundraising and kick off-events? Is this something the public should know?
DeleteAlso, do you thinking Ms. Shaffer should have disclosed she had donated to Blakespear's campaign?
I actually do think the sex offender thing is good to know, provide the person lives within 1,000 feet of where the kids are brought in to visit
As someone else mentioned, there is a difference between a "sexual predator" and someone who must list himself as a sexual offender. The latter offense does not have to involve young children.
DeleteOn this, I agree with Sculpin. The complaining neighbors did not bring up this situation, publicly. Apparently, they had been notified, as required.
The appearance is of a witch hunt, now, with attempts to smear the Mehl family and Catherine Blakespear. Bullying tactics will backfire.
You're either missing the main point on purpose or to skew opinion. This is not about the neighbors who already know this guy lives there. This is about the visitors - specifically, the children - who come to CTF. Now CTF wants to increase their attendance of kids and still not notification to (read my lips) VISITORS?
DeleteHardly family-friendly and certainly not responsible. As a parent, I would want to know. Maybe the guy himself is not "required" to notifiy anyone beyond the block, but CTF may be biting off way more than they can chew by inviting more unsuspecting families and kids in. Time will tell.
12:19 Hey, bottom feeder, how do you know so much about this man? Yes, this disclosure is very important because children visit this farm. Thanks again, Julie, for bringing this to the attention of the public. FAKEspear was willing to hide the issue.
DeleteThe ruling by the council was fair. The Coral Tree Farm people should have kept quiet. Now they can only do veggie baskets, etc. No more yoga, cooking classes, etc. They shot themselves in the foot so to speak.
Not one word about the candidate forum last night? Yes, I know. It was like watching the grass grow. I like Alex, though. Too bad he isn't running for a higher office ( no pun intended!).
ReplyDeleteApparently the Queen Mayor could not attend. She again is hiding from obvious questions she knew she would get.
DeleteMaybe she was hiding at her mommy's house.
9:26,
DeleteAny office Alex assumes would become a higher office, by definition, unless he is elected Mayor of Toronto.
11:21, What, you wakin' and bakin'? There is a photo of last night's forum on the Seaside Courier website with the Mayor smack dab in the middle of it. What's funny is that not only could the Mayor and her Mommy kick yer ass, no holds barred: there's a good chance her son could too. Put down the methadone, loser.
DeleteBefore you start calling people losers, 1:47, you might like to hear the comments people were making as they exited:
Delete1. Alex is a "hoot, refreshing, I might not vote for him, but I like him"
2. Tony was wooden, clearly freaked out to be sitting next to Alex, and showed his temper when he ignored the forum rules, the moderator, and raised his voice...all over police behavior.
3. Sheila was excellent, offered specific solutions,
4. Bawany fairly short on specifics, but had some good ideas and opinions that resonated with the crowd
5. Gaspar was canned, slick, and spoke in generalities. Saved the best for last...your "kick yer ass" mommy.
1:47 GASbag must have changed her plans because she initially announced she could not attend the Mayor's Forum last evening. Don't blame me - someone must have advised her to be there. I invite her, her mommy and son to try what you said. They won't get far.
DeleteCanned, slick and spoke in generalities is what Gaspar has always done. She has brought nothing of substance to this council and her time as mayor so far has been one of "loser". She is obviously not running the show. Looks like Shaffer takes the spot on that.
DeleteWhat you see now as mayor is what you will see if Gaspar is elected. More of the same, canned, slick, generalities. No leadership or political skills at all. She is in the wrong profession. Go back to being a "mommy". Your children need you.
Who in the hell reads the Seaside Courier? What a waste.
DeleteGet ready for 2 more years of her. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
DeleteGaspar comes out of obscurity and is now mayor and possibly will be elected back?? Unbelievable that incompetency is rewarded - she hasn't a clue how to run a city - she is a puppet serving the interests of the monied elite. Get an accountant to ask her some technical questions at one of these forums and watch the train wreck.... Sand on the slick!
DeleteBlakespear made the Coral Tree farm the centerpiece of her campaign. her slogan is/was "I'm running for city council and representing Coral Tree farm pro bono" at every chance for publicity. Certainly appears that Blakespear is/was using Coral Tree farm to further her political aspirations. She bought the farm out into the public area with much fanfare.
ReplyDeleteAsk Blakespear if she will take her children back to the farm.
She also took the opportunity to advertise how many fundraisers she'd had (two) and how many people turned up (big whoop - free food). Shameless self-promotion...and for such little, little substance.
DeleteAll this crap about a sex offender is small minded nonsense. I love my kids and am very protective of them but I'd still visit the farm. The fact a registered sex offender lives in the neighborhood is noteworthy as general information but is totally irrelevant to the discussion.
ReplyDeleteRegistered sex offenders shop in supermarkets and walk the streets. They're out there folks. None of the Park Lane families moved away when they learned of it and at least they had the common sense not to make it part of the discussion. Nutjob Julie Graboi has stirred up a hornet's nest and all you suckers are buzzing around because of it.
If a registered sex offender moved into your neighborhood would you still allow your kids to play outside? If yes, then please shut up. If no, then you should probably move away.
If it irrelevant why is it noteworthy?
DeleteRead 4:00 again, 5:15:
Delete4:00 said the (sex) issue "is noteworthy as general information but is totally irrelevant to the discussion."
It's irrelevant to what constitutes legal, non-conforming, and what uses can be considered accessory or incidental uses compatible with the primary, permitted use.
The complaining neighbors are being over controlling, and they took up plenty of time, too. People like that use code enforcement to take away our community's character and our individual property rights.
Sex always sells, in instigating witch hunts, or stinking up the conversation with red herrings.
I guarantee less children will be taken there by their parents. Good for them.
Delete"Nutjob?" Anger issues much?
ReplyDeleteYeah 4:00, that's over the line. Graboi may be a whackadoodle bet she's no nut job.
ReplyDeleteSex offenders are not easily rehabilitated, as the research as shown. They have the highest rate of recidivism of any criminal out there. Whether Julie should have said it the other night is up for opinion, but, the fact that Blakespear didn't say it, and lots of parents stood up and begged for Coral Tree to continue to do what it has been doing is also subject to criticism. First, this was a zoning issue, plain and simple. Second, one parent who went on about yoga, then had her 8 year old daughter get up and plea for Coral Tree. Same as Gaspar did with her son the night she was set up by Shaffer. Both I consider to be pandering to the public. However, it is a fact that there is a registered sex offender living next to Coral Tree. I have no idea what he actually did, but to me it doesn't matter. Whether he exposed himself totally naked, exposed his private parts to little girls and boys, sodomized a boy, Most likely he didn't rape a little girl or he would still be in prison. But, whatever, how these parent, knowing that there is a sex offender that is related tot he owner living on that street, would give me pause for reflection before I would take my kids there. There is enough crime in the world. I don't need to set my kids up for something voluntarily.
ReplyDeleteRight, 6:14, while you're at Coral Tree Farm with your kids, the registered sex offender is going to raid the farm and kidnap your kids. Be smart, beware and never go there!
DeleteSo-called zoning issues are never "plain and simple." And your playing the sex offender card just shows that you are not treating it as a plain and simple zoning issue, 6:14.
DeleteNone of the children are unattended, and there is no threat posed by the hypothetical "offender." No one knows what the charges were, or if he still actually resides nearby. None of the complaining neighbors or the supporters of CTF were concerned enough to bring up this speculative, last minute assertion.
Methinks thou doth protest too much, 6:14. Are you projecting tendencies within yourself that you hate?
Remember, let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone . . .
I detest when people quote religious nonsense.
DeleteOK You all want to take risks with your kids, go for it. Ever heard of an Amber Alert. Do you know that some of these kids were in front of their schools when they were abducted, with adults looking on? If you don't know what this offender did, look it up. It's a public record. It may be a zoning issue, and it may not. Catherine wanted to do the same thing that the City has already told the Marr's they cannot do- and that is up zone. So all of you so called Prop. a supporters cannot have it both ways. I supported Prop. A and I don't want Coral Farms to do more than they are zoned to do. There are plenty of yoga places in Encinitas. There are plenty of everything they do in Encinitas. So, to me, this is a rich persons issue. These poor moms, with their $2200.00 strollers going going to Coral Farms to show their kids how to grow food. That's B.S. What they want is their little coffee clutches and have palace where there kids can run wild. So, when the sex offender is out and about and these moms are talking about the high price of good help, they are not watching their kids. Because of course, Coral Farms is safe. I would not wish this for my children.
DeleteWell said 10:45. Coral Tree Farm should not have any more special treatment than anyone else in this city. We have laws, rules and regulations and it is up to the council to enforce them.
DeleteThanks again to Julie Graboi for bringing up a very important issue of what kind of person lives near by.
Maintaining a single accessory unit in a residential zone is not upzoning. Maintaining a pre-existing agricultural use in a former ag zone is not upzoninng.
DeleteProp A supporters are not trying to have it both ways. Ag uses and incidental accessory uses should be allowed in all zones, within reason. Private homes can host special dinners and parties. A farm should be able to do so, occasionally, also.
Kerry Kuziak was dead wrong. A roadside stand, 250 sq. ft. or less is allowed without a minor use permit. To state roadside stands require a minor use permit is not being accurate or truthful. So is Kuziak saying children with a small lemonade stand would need a minor use permit? His statement was ridiculous last Wednesday.
The City should not use the guise of zoning to make intrusive regulations, or to give a few complainants the power of Code Enforcement and the City Attorney to force its bullying shadow policies on individual property owners.
10:45, CTF should not have any worse treatment than anyone else in this city. We have laws, rules and regulations to serve the people, not to discriminate against them. If someone can have Yoga classes at his or her private residence, then they should be allowed on a farm that includes a residence. Laws and regulations are designed to serve the benefits of the people, not to give a few control freaks a feeling of power over those against whom they are discriminating.
Delete12:41 Their deed of trust stated they would not use the property for agriculture. That was a lie and they got caught. Now they either have to apply for the necessary permit or risk being fined. Plus, now that they have been caught, all other accessory things they were doing to make money have to cease for now. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Wouldn't want Blakespear as my attorney.
Delete12:41, another important difference is that they are trying to do these things as a business with impacts on other neighbors. If it were a social situation and not a business, people might be more understanding. However, I can understand that neighbors don't want to suffer the cost of someone doing business when they are not permitted for a particular use.
DeleteReceived a campaign "robot" call from Gaspar today. I hung up immediately because I can not stand to listen to her nasal tone. She is a big turn off to me.
ReplyDeleteThe convicted sex offender Kennrth Alton Hornback is the brother in law of Laurel Mehl, owner of Coral Tree Farm and resides on the property at 595 Park Lane. There is no separate parcel for the Farm at 598 Park Lane. Mr Hornback was convicted of lewd and lascivious behavior on a child under 14. Yet some of these new ages have no problem bringing their kiddies there for organic fun. And they blame Ms Graboi for informing the public. Maybe they should blame Ms Blakespear for defending ms Mehl and trying to get CTF a special pass so they don't have to comply with the rules everyone else does. Don't vote for Blakespear!
ReplyDeleteCorrection: 595 Park Lane (Hornback) and 598 Park Lane (CTF) are separate parcels with separate owners and have been for well over a decade.
DeleteCorrection 10:11. The County recorder has no record of a parcel number for 598. Check it out for yourself.
DeleteCorrection 12:09: The subdivision map which created Park Lane shows 4 parcels east of the cul-de-sac - 2 large (what are now 595 (Hornback) and 598 (CTF, aka Mehl)) and 2 smaller ones (583 and an un-numbered). Nice try, but you're wrong.
DeleteMinor correction to my 5:47 PM - S/B "2 smaller ones (583 and an un-street numbered).
Delete12:41 No problem then. If your kid is taken please don't call the sheriff because you were told and you chose to ignore this "small" fact. Me, I'll take my kids to the local Farmers market at the train station each week. May the force be with you and yours.
ReplyDelete8:32, I didn't mind (our next mayor) Gaspar's robocall. It's when those telemarketers call and don't have to tell me they're sex offenders that makes my blood boil.
ReplyDeleteFrom 11:05-
ReplyDeleteNone of the children are unattended, and there is no threat posed by the hypothetical "offender." No one knows what the charges were, or if he still actually resides nearby.
Bullshit. Are you saying that the sex offender is hypothetical. Then I suggest you go to public records and find out for yourself. What you will find is that there is a registered sex offender, living on that street, who happens to be the brother in law of Ms. Mehl, the owner. I will not state the charges on this blog, but anyone can find out. That's why sex offenders have to be registered in the first place. They do not do well in psychotherapy, and they are repeat offenders. There is a reason that they are dangerous to your children. Don't believe me, look it up. That's the beauty of the Internet.
Can't these people read?! Mr Hornbacker was convicted of LEWD AN LASCIVIOUS BEHAVIOR ON A CHILD UNDER 14! Google his name and read it for yourselves. Denial won't help you!
ReplyDeleteYes he was, over 25 years ago.
DeleteHis name wasn't released before, so no one could Google it. If the neighbors were concerned, they could have addressed their concerns, publicly, instead of playing politics.
DeleteThanks for sharing that the conviction was 25 years ago, 2:54. If he hasn't had any repeat offenses, then he may have rehabilitated himself. Although rare, it does happen.
Keep your kids away, if you are afraid. And stop with your witch hunt and smear campaign of CTF.
Tony and alisa opted to punt the issue over to January 2015. Guess they were worried about their puppet Blakespear who sat ther withbher mommy and daddy and her pitiful little organic cheering squad.
ReplyDeleteOops. Should have read Tony and Lisa punted the issue over to January 2015.
ReplyDeleteThis is about children visiting the farm and not the people who already knew about it. By bringing attention to this situation, there is less possibility that something will happen should they be granted a permit in the future.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree 7:19. I dint get parents who are so worried about organic food, farm to table and yoga who then aren't worried about a child sex offender on the relatives next door property.
Delete