Saturday, November 28, 2020

Cyclist fatality reported on Leucadia Boulevard

 Nextdoor.com:

Earlier today a truck was making a right turn off of Leucadia Blvd. onto Moonstone Ct., turning into the path of a cyclist in the bike lane. The cyclist was killed in the accident (updated).

I ride on that road often and it is easy to see how this happened. When cars turn right across a bike lane it is safest for everyone (and the law) that the car merge into the bike lane. That act of merging rather than just turning across the lane gives you the time to see any cyclists in the lane and figure out their speed to determine if you should go in front or behind them. Unfortunately, since the bollards on Leucadia Blvd. do not allow for this, the truck had to just make the turn without merging. It would be very easy to miss seeing a cyclist at that turn. When I ride down that hill I am regularly going 35mph, so a turning car would not necessarily have passed me recently to know that I was there. It is a big, wide bike lane, so a cursory glance in your mirror might not be enough to see if someone is there: bikes aren't that big.

I feel bad for the person driving the truck and worse for the cyclist. When the bollards went in several cyclists pointed out this exact problem with them and the city ignored it. Much as they are ignoring so many cyclists telling them how dangerous the cycle trap on 101 between Cardiff and Solana Beach is. They talk a big game about protecting cyclists, but then ignore what actual cyclists tell them. Hopefully this will get them to listen.

101 comments:

  1. This will not get them to listen. How many cycle trap accidents later and the mayor still boasts of her "improvement?" At least one filed suit against the city.

    These bollards were installed as the mayor's knee jerk reaction to her pal Walker's accident. The mayor freaked out and immediately started striping the town crazy.

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  2. Needs a fix before more accidents and deaths.

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  3. Street view does not show bollards at moonstone. The ended west of there. I agree that bollards cause a right hook situation. Dobwe have th exact location, westbound or eastbound?

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  4. The SD Covaids numbers are CNN type porn today.

    LOL

    Solid upon solid sources are basically saying everyone AND THAT MEANS ALL YOU MASKED ASSHOLES OUTSIDE LIGHT YEARS AWAY FROM THE NEXT HUMAN are going to the covaids.

    Embrace the suck mthrfkers and realize your years of metabolic syndrome is going to kill you and there are no doctors or nurses left to treat you.

    Look up and repent and at least Marco collected enough money ad fraud before he burns in hell.

    Vaya con dios asshole

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  5. Who in their right mind? Your mayor who knows best, that's who although you could argue her state of mind.

    Wait for it...coming soon...her next newsletter blaming the victim.

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  6. Imagine that fat fuck Trump on a bike.

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  7. 7:00, 7:06. Before you admonish others, try figuring out why your parents, who are brother and sister, felt the need to have intercourse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ohh, sick burn! You got him good!

      Delete
  8. For all you 54% who voted for this horrible mayor that is bad for bicyclist safety, promotes homeless, and promotes stack and pack that only creates a super crowded packed beach situation like in LA; You all have blood on your hands.

    Vote with more compassion next election. Vote ABC

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  9. I call bullshit.

    I’ve been right hooked by a truck in Del Mar. The front right tire of the truck came to a screeching stop a foot from my head after I hit the front quarter panel and rolled off the front of the hood. My bike went under the front tire, and was smashed completely.

    As you would imagine, I have spent a good deal of time replaying that experience in my head and dissecting the mechanics of the right hook generally.

    I can tell you with authority, the bollards and bike lane play no role in a right hook. It would have happened with or without them.

    Ultimately I blame myself for my right hook. Even though the driver was clearly at fault legally, it’s my responsibility to keep myself alive, and I can’t delegate that responsibility.

    I allowed an overlap to happen between my front wheel and the back of the truck. So when he brakes and turned, I had nowhere to go. Had I eliminated the overlap by dropping back a few feet, I could have matched his braking and stayed behind his rear bumper as he came across the bike lane.

    The writer is letting his/her politics and personal feelings about elected officials override his/her judgement. That, or they just don’t know much, and are talking out of their ass.

    ReplyDelete
  10. You can claim BS but you and I ride extremely cautious and I do not agree with your BS call. I think you are BS and obviously do not ride much. Most do not ride that often and the statistics prove that the bollards do not help the merging issue as described.

    I agree with the above voter and will begin campaigning against Blakespear. ABC she is bad for Encinitas in all their top priority issues. Safety, Homeless, and Overdevelopment - Blakespear gets an F.

    ABC

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  11. All of the complaining about blakespear and yet NO ONE mentions she is a leftist and leftists voted for her. Let's be upfront and call it like it is. Everything they do, they destroy

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    1. The majority that voted for her clearly want what Blakespear is giving us: mega development, ill advised takeover of cycle "traps" across the city and compassion for the homeless that awards big consulting contracts but does nothing for those sleeping in our downtown business district.

      If you voted for Blakespear you forfeit your right to complain.

      Delete
    2. You are so right. Why did I vote for her, and Biden for that matter. Your blog comment has changed my mind, converted me from a mindless leftist, to a woke member of the right. I'll be forever grateful to you, anonymous blog commenter. You are like a modern, online Jesus, spreading the good word.

      Delete
    3. I along with many others disillusioned by her dictatorial "leadership" voted for Biden and against Blakespear. Here's a newsflash for ya, 1:37: truly woke means not voting kneejerk down the line D. Prepare to love whatever Blakespear shoves down your throat because whatever it is, you wanted it. Enjoy.

      Delete
    4. curious to know what Biden has to do with blakespear's cycle trap, favors handed out to developer favorites, and her lawsuit against residents? we'll wait, 1:37.

      Delete
    5. 11:03

      Get.a.fucking,life.

      Delete
    6. 7:04 Are your parents still brother and sister?

      Delete
    7. 4:28 with another SICK BURN! You got em good!

      Delete
    8. Interesting you who brought up biden and you voted for him and the faux black woman.
      This proves my point. biden has dementia and is on medications for it. And yet, you people voted for him anyway. Proving once again, everything the left does they destroy. Two months ago biden could not complete a full sentence without blanking out. And now? The meds are kind of working. Kind of. See him last week completely space out in to a world of nothingness when asked a simple question at a q&a?
      Nice going...

      Delete
    9. Trump wears diapers. Look at his puffy pants. Gross!

      Delete
  12. This blog is so funny. It's all people in low status groups, using conspiracy theories as an emotional tool, providing themselves with a sense of superiority: I possess important information most people do not have. For those who feel powerless, they provide agency: I have the power to reject “experts” and expose hidden cabals.

    Alas, you can't argue people out of paranoia. I can only hope for better for the next generation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So which low status group are you a member of, 2:54?

      Delete
    2. Considering all the whackos I come across in Encinitas, maybe more suicides might be helpful for the rest of us.

      Delete
  13. Suicide rates spiking-

    Thanks Newsom and School Board for sacrificing our children's mental health.

    https://abc7news.com/japan-suicides-suicide-rates-covid-women/8359064/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ahh, using data about Japan to push your agenda. Very sly.

      Delete
  14. From the comments here it’s obvious this story isn’t about the tragic loss of a cyclist, or compassion for his family.

    It’s about a bunch of sore losers trying to use a tragedy to score political points.

    How sad for you.

    Please reconsider the choices that turned you into bitter, sad, ugly people.

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    Replies
    1. Nothing to do with sore losers but you'll use that thinking you've found an easy out to brush her F-ups under the rug.

      No, what you're reading is the extreme frustration of people who've had it up to their eyeballs with this virtue-signaling "leader" who thinks up is down and down is up. It's bizarre and now someone is dead because she was unable to listen to all the cyclists, the true experts who warned her against the Leucadia Blvd. design just as they did with her cycle trap.

      There is a serious disconnect with Blakespear's ability to exercise common sense. People have been injured and now killed as a result of her so-called "improvements" that she terms "incidents."

      I am a taxpayer in Encinitas and sincerely hope this poor fellow's family takes us to the cleaners. Believe the term is "gross negligence," defined as "The extreme indifference to or reckless disregard for the safety of others. Gross negligence is more than simple carelessness or failure to act. It is willful behavior done with extreme disregard for the health and safety of others. It is conduct likely to cause foreseeable harm." Describes Blakespear to a T.

      Delete
    2. Did I miss where it was the driver of the vehicle that made mince meat out of the bicycle person and not the City of Encinitas. If we go down the road...oooops, I mean if we follow that logic then the City of Carlsbad is at fault for that lady that was murdered last week while out for a walk.

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    3. Go to the Facebook group "Encinitas: PLEASE Restore Safety In Cardiff." They're discussing how the mayor was warned against the bollards and their placement on Leucadia Blvd. In typical fashion she ignored those who actually do know best and instead went full speed ahead with the design from her "professional staff."

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    4. And if the City of Carlsbad is taking the same "welcoming and compassionate" hands-off, do-nothing approach that our council does with our homeless then, yes: they are responsible for that woman's death.

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    5. 10:28,

      What you’ve missed is the part where a bunch of pathetic sore losers don’t care that it was the driver’s fault.

      Anything can and will be twisted to suit a political narrative. They are so blinded by their impotent rage that they can no longer see reality without the perception filter they have created for themselves.

      It’s very unfortunate, as it makes them perpetually miserable and angry.

      Delete
    6. Didn't see a report that it was the driver's fault, You've made that claim twice now. Please cite your source, 10:40.

      Delete
    7. The city of Carlsbad is not on the hook for a murder that has Zero to do with them, the City didn't murder that woman.
      I do believe a bum killed her.

      Delete
    8. 10-4, 10:40. Indeed they live an angry existence. Like children with A.D.D in adult bodies. It's always someone else's fault, or, their hate for one man will cause them to vote for one with dementia. Gawd...the insanity.

      Delete
    9. When you actively invite a group into your city, yes you have a responsibility. Carlsbad's got a pretty robust "we're here for you" program, so....

      They even claim creating affordable housing as a homeless goal - really??

      Delete
    10. All the more reason to be armed with pepper spray, a non folding knife (fixed blade), or both. If you think in your wildest liberal leftist bed wetting dreams a bum cares about you, then you are mistaken and could be the next on a slab at the morgue.
      Stop blaming others for your inaction of self defense.

      Delete
  15. Gonzalez is human filth.

    Nothing to do with winning or losing.

    Human filth rots in hell eventually.

    This we can be thankful for this holiday season -

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    Replies
    1. 8:15 - looking forward to seeing your joyfulness at the Christmas table! Wow - ice your balls or something. You have issues.

      Delete
    2. 8:15 - Hell, what a cute concept. I see you still believe in fairytales.

      Delete
    3. What kind of coward writes crap like this but is unwilling to put his/her name on it? If you're going to talk shit about me, at least do it to my face.

      Delete
    4. News flash: they are lined up.

      Delete
    5. Haha... thanks for the laugh Gonzo. Poser tough guy, you'd pee your pants if the guys in this community that don't like you actually got in your face. EU is actually a means of catharsis--you should be relieved it lets so many blow off steam. Incidentally, your lame little hat doesn't translate into street toughness. But good try.

      Delete
    6. 5:36 - Lame burn. Nice try, but total fail. -5 internet points.

      Delete
    7. The hat, the backward baseball cap, the earring, the hoodie...none of it translates.

      No try, no burn, just a fact.

      Delete
    8. 6:32 - Using someone's appearance to attack their character. Excellent! +9 internet points.

      Delete
  16. I'm pretty sure Trump wears diapers. Have you seen how puffy his pants are when he's playing golf?

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    1. I'm pretty sure your parents are displeased with what turned out to be you.

      Delete
    2. Oh DAMN! Another internet blog BURN! Roasted and toasted! You got him good! +5 internet points to you.

      Delete
    3. spot-on 7:35! Trump is definitely a pants-shitter. His daddy issues manifest themselves in his soiling... and needing to be soiled. Hence, his disgusting need to be pissed on. Have you seen the tape yet? Arghh.. wallowing in it. Time to move on.

      Delete
  17. anyone ever see the Walker accident report? didn't think so.... whatever happened to that lawsuit anyway? still active? still walker AND her hubby suing the city? the mayor handed them some good suing points by blurting uncontrollable to news sources that the road was a "known issue." isn't she supposed to know better as an attorney??

    inquiring minds....

    and if you didn't know, Walker's is the accident that sent the mayor into a tailspin of cycle traps and bollards.

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    Replies
    1. If we converted all streets in Encinitas, including its boroughs, into bike-lane-only lanes, we wouldn't have this safety issue. Newsom is outlawing cars anyway, meaning we can get a head start with our enlightened council leading the way for all societies and the greater good of all mankind. Blakespear, Kelly, Tony, Joe, and lady Spock (I can't remember her name), SAVE US!!!

      Delete
    2. Save us? That chance passed Nov 4, my friend. Good luck to you in 2022!

      Voted for the incumbents? Enjoy - you wanted it! Excuse me, going to make the popcorn.

      Delete
    3. 6:43 = crying baby reply. -5 internet points.

      Delete
  18. A tragedy. A human life lost. A few seconds change in either the rider's or driver's timeline, and it wouldn't have happened. What is the purpose of the bollards? Obviously, they don't protect anything in the bike lane. The bollards at that corner made it necessary for the driver to make a nearly 90-degree right turn, making it impossible for him to see the bike lane in his right-side mirror. Blakespear and her obedient city staff have blood and death on their hands. They didn't listen to riders' advice. They were negligent, they are liable. I hope the rider's family sues the city to the hilt.

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  19. I voted for the incumbents. Most of us did—a solid majority.

    The choice was clear, and now it’s time for action.

    What we want and demand is for all cars to be confiscated immediately and replaced with bikes or a unicycle. Close all gas stations and cut the natural gas lines to all homes. Each home must have thermostats set to 55° In winter by law and use only solar, wind, or geothermal.

    All landscape watering will be illegal and punishable by a penalty rate doubling your
    taxes.

    Bee keeping is now mandatory for all homes as is composting. There will be weekly checks.

    We also demand tall tower housing for everyone—your home will be bulldozed. We will be bringing in only the most dangerous homeless people and the brown folks you are afraid of to live in the tower with you. You’ll probably get murdered, raped, or both. And you can’t defend yourself because they are coming for your guns.

    The goal is to have an economic collapse due to socialism so we can riot and burn down our historic downtown.

    This is what the dumb asses think 60% of the residents want, and yet they still choose to live here.

    That makes them either liars, stupid, or both.

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    Replies
    1. Nice deflection 6:14, but the fact is you're stupider than fuck voting for the incumbents. The choice was clear to vote out the incumbents, but retards like yourself just couldn't understand logic. Perhaps it's the school system that robbed you of your intellectual potential, but I suspect it's just your genetic underperforming IQ.

      You sarcastically dismiss notions that the 60% of stupid fucks like yourself couldn't possibly subscribe to radical government intrusions on American liberties, economies and lives; that such notions are undignified attacks on civic minded Americans like yourself who know a good candidate when they see one. But being a stupider-than-fuck individual, what you don't get is that you're wrong. Your facetious list of what it is Blakespear and her cohorts "want" actually represents a kernel of a larger truth. They may not lean all the way toward the extreme of those policies, but they lean enough that, all combined, the result will be a tilt toward tyranny. The fact is, there's a part of you that tilts toward that extreme too, and you're stupid and impressionable enough to allow manipulators like Blakespear to steer you there when and if they need to. You just are.

      Dude, you think you're reasonable, intelligent and principled, but in truth you represent so much of what's wrong with today's America. This country is the product of so many idealistic and, at the same time, vile acts that it's a wonder we made it this far. And now that it's time to come to terms with our past, admit errors yet hold onto what we need to continue to lead more virtuously into the future, it's idiots like you that represent the watering down of the ideals we actually need to live up to the American promise. Face it, you suck.

      Delete
  20. 60%- Phfff.... you wish!

    Try 3 to 4% and the trends were changing greatly in the later portion of the election.

    What is telling is that there are some truths in your rant above and hence I am completely against the sell out incumbents.

    Thunder would be our Mayor today if only 3,000 more voters were informed.

    This is huge and the trends showed she was gaining quickly at the end with the voters being educated throughout the campaign. If Thunder had launched her excellent mailer - " Beach Town, Not Big Town" at the beginning of the election season, she would be our Mayor today.

    The voting tends do not change as easily as the weather like some idiot eluded to on this blog.

    Blakespear is NOT MY MAYOR!!!

    Trends:

    2018 - challenger to incumbent - 15%
    2020 - challenger to incumbent - 45%!!
    2022 - challenger to incumbent - > 50% easy!

    This came down to only 3k votes out of a city of over 60k. Blakespear almost lost even with all her big developer money backing.

    https://www.livevoterturnout.com/SanDiego/LiveResults/en/Index_10.html

    Considering the few years of stack and pack damage caused by Blakespear-Gonzalez from up-zoning all of Encinitas with high section 8 apartments and doubling the housing stock and traffic in town, and her promoting homeless and overdevelopment, Blakespear is and will continue to be widely disliked in Encinitas.

    The trends are strong and can not be reversed.

    Let's start the planning and fund raising to punt Blakespear out in 2022!

    Stop the destruction of Encinitas!!!! ABC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You get the SORE LOSER AWARD. -5 internet points.

      Delete
    2. Do your homework, 7:29. There has been no new Section 8 funding for many years. The funding is fixed at the level from back then. The wait for Section 8 housing is about 10 years, depending on where in the county it is. There are about 100 Section 8 units in Encinitas. The funding is federal and the number of units is fixed.

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    3. 12:37 - Using facts on a propaganda blog? Uncalled for. -8 internet points.

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  21. Gonzalez and Blakespear = Human filth

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    Replies
    1. Super lame comment. -10 internet points.

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    2. Gosh but you've found a way to amuse yourself 9:52.

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    3. 10:47 - Weak comeback. -6 internet points.

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  22. someone wake me up when the weirdo's done trolling. boring the first time.

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    Replies
    1. I think it's pretty funny.

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    2. 3:35 - I think you're an idiot.

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    3. 5:38 - using the wrong time stamp. -10 internet points.

      Delete
  23. the point system is disrupting the serious discussion of whatever it was that people were ranting about. it seems arbitrary but I remain hopeful of gaining points with this post. are trollman's internet points like S&H Green Stamps but with even less value?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Discounting the value of internet points? -5 internet points. Begging for internet points on a propaganda blog? +8 internet points. Net +3 internet points.

      Delete
  24. I like the point systems. Lets show points for a Mayor to push for road conditions that get bicyclists maimed or killed. We can equate it to the $$$ of taxpayer money doled out to the innocent victims grieving family and their ambulance chasing attorneys.

    Roberta Walker and the 101 bike hell - $20 million. (the City is lucky she lived or that amount would easily be doubled. The attorneys get half and the walkers will get about $10 million)

    Stephany and 101 bike hell - I just guess at $5 million.

    Cardiff debacle - This one is hard to estimate. Its just a matter of short time until a fatality. I'm giving it $20 million minimum.

    Leucadia Blvd. with this latest fatality - $20 million. ( again the Attorneys get half). the City is lucky this time was not a kid. If they do not correct the situation a kid is going to get wacked on that street.

    All the others throughout town. Come on. Join in. Blakespears antics and creating unsafe conditions are endless. Add up the points. Its so much fun!!! How much to win? Blakespear's is already at $65 million in pain and suffering. Go Blakespear!!!

    How high can she go?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I like your application of the points system, 5:36. Do the other four stooges get any points for their silent but obvious agreement with the out of control mayor?

      Delete
  25. Where's the Roberta Walker sheriff's report?

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    Replies
    1. California Vehicle Code Section 16005

      “(b) The information . . . may be given to any person having a proper interest therein, including:

      (1) The driver or drivers involved, or the employer, parent, or legal guardian thereof.
      (2) The authorized representative of any person involved in the accident.
      (3) Any person injured in the accident.
      (4) The owners of vehicles or property damaged in the accident.
      (5) Any law enforcement agency.
      (6) Any court of competent jurisdiction.”

      So, 8:51, the accident report is fully available to anyone fitting one of those six descriptions.

      If none of those applies to you, then you get a free punch on your Tough Shit Card.

      Delete
    2. Use of Tough Shit Card. +2 internet points.

      Delete
    3. 12:05 accident reports are often available to the public, your helpful vehicle code excuses for the mayor aside.

      Blakespear freaked out over the loss of Walker as her original #1 pick for the Hinze appointment to take over for Tasha. Blakespear immediately after the accident went so far as to help Walker's case against the city by making statements that alluded to the city as a guilty party. Pretty sad considering she's a lawyer.

      Walker was riding in the dark and there remain many open questions about her likely not stopping to look for oncoming traffic before darting out onto the 101. The truck driver was never charged, not with anything. You're surely aware that the general assumption among the public is that the mayor told the sheriff to sit on the report.
      So while your code may be technically correct, the optics on the whole are bad.

      Delete
    4. 12:30 - Making wild assumptions to put down the mayor. +15 internet points.

      Delete
    5. Not really. If you've been paying attention, not wild at all.

      Delete
  26. Here comes another lawsuit.

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    Replies
    1. Watch Blakespear's confusion over why we're getting sued over another one of her improvement.

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    2. Lawsuits and tax payer losses are increasing with Blakespear - Gonzalez

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    3. 10:02 - WTF are you even talking about? What do I have to do with lawsuits resulting in tax payer losses? And please, tell us which lawsuits and payouts you're referencing? And maybe step up and use your name next time.

      Delete
    4. Oh please. Lawsuits from developers pushed by the two of you should hardly come as a shock.

      And step up with a name - what, so you can make one of your famous screaming personal threats? Nein, danke.

      Delete
    5. Marco Gonzalez should be disbarred. He is a discredit to the bar.

      Delete
  27. Bikes and vehicles are incompatible.

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    1. 7:59 AM Talking about Encinitas specifically.

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  28. 7:40 - Not true.

    Clueless drivers and bikes are incompatible- Not bikes and vehicles. When drivers and bicyclists get educated and embrace bicycle riding, like is slowly happening, and the City's implement proper bicycle infrastructure, we will see gains similar to Europe.

    Face it, USA citizens are retarded compared to other more advanced societies in our world.

    When are they going to post more facts about this incident and what does the sheriffs accident report say?

    who did they find at fault?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Slowly happening" - is that what you call the cycle trap accidents? Sounds a lot like the mayor's "learning curve" lingo.

      Leucadia Blvd. was a DEATH, not an "incident" - more jargon out of the mayor's fantasy world.

      Put down the Kool Aid and figure out that the cycle trap and bollard boondoggles are not examples of well-designed, proper bicycle infrastructure. They are the product of a mayor who ignores reality and relies instead on her hubby, a certain BFF attorney friend to inform her. The "professional staff" on whom she depends do not have the expertise required to do their jobs - and that's putting it kindly. Watch a few meetings and tell me I'm wrong.

      If you want to increase cycling, do it given our road conditions. Stop with the nonapplicable comparisons to Europe. More fantasyland. Enough with the square pegs into round holes.

      Delete
  29. 7:59 - clueless design is incompatible with normal drivers and cyclists.

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  30. 9:37am - True dat. And hence massive tax payers pay out thanks to Blakespear - Gonzalez.

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  31. Not blaming the driver and cyclist is like not blaming the communist chinese for the virus. I don't care for blakesmear but this isn't in any way her fault. It is the fault of the two numbskulls...period

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    1. Wrong, 10:16. Blakespear's impulse control issues are known and she is a major contributing factor in this death. Her issues resulted in her panicked bollarding of Leucadia Blvd. after the Walker incident (ok to call that an "incident," right?). Blakespear and her professional staff got Leucadia Blvd. so wrong that some bollards had to be removed immediately after installation because they were actually blocking ingress/egress from side streets. She doesn't think, she panics. Some leadership.

      Blakespear listens to the wrong people = see other comments above. Hence the cycle trap. Hence the lawsuits and continued, increased liability exposure at taxpayer expense.

      Delete
  32. Coast News back to publishing blakespear's weekly propaganda corner. They backed her reelection so not a surprise.

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  33. Who died? As many of us know several or more cyclists around here, it would be good to know that our biking friends had not bitten the dust.

    Is that too much to ask? Or, is our mayor influencing and minimizing a tragedy for her own self-serving reasons?

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    Replies
    1. Google it, 12:44. Leucadia Blvd. and cyclist death.

      The mayor can always be counted on to minimize the real issues. This one's just another of her life-threatening "improvements."

      Delete
  34. 6:43pm Your help is so appreciated. Why did you even bother with a response, or rather a nonresponse?

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  35. The trouble with these on bikes is they can't seem to think. I see the idiots riding side by side holding up traffic and somehow it's the cars fault. Like the cyclist has some weird right to hold up traffic. Note to dikes on bikes...think

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  36. Note to some jerks in vehicles. Give others space to enjoy their rights to our roads.

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  37. Have any of the five fine council members spoken about this fatality? Or are the four being good little soldiers and following the mayor's imposed gag rule?

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