The state has posted online data for all government employees. The summary data are here, but understate the averages because they include part-time, contract, and partial-year workers. The raw data are here. Note: both links are currently broken at the time of posting, but we assume they'll be working again soon unless government unions can quash them like they did the CalPERS pension database.
Anyway, we accessed the files before they went down, and here are the Encinitas details for 2012, with part-time, contract, and partial-year workers and city council members filtered out.
Position titles and pay ranges are on next week's consent agenda for rubber-stamping by the city council. Staff have data to show that the pay ranges are comparable to other California cities, so why should council even question whether $130,000 per worker is fair, reasonable, or affordable, or bear any relation to private sector compensation?
The median household income (i.e. including those with two or more working adults) in Encinitas is estimated around $80,000 - $90,000 per year, with far less generous benefits.
Hat tip to California Public Policy Center.
UPDATE: Encinitas' private employment data from the city in 2009 for comparison:
In-Fuckin'-sane.
ReplyDeleteDrive them out!!!
Bang your pots!!
what do you do for a living ? If you knew anything about Fire Departments , maybe you would think different. I am more than happy to explain if you wish.
DeleteGood post, WC. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteIn reading the Agenda report for next Wednesday night's CC Meeting, I noticed the numbers were mostly provided for a range of workers, for their monthly pay. In some cases, hourly. But it would be more transparent to provide monthly or hourly and ANNUAL pay amounts.
Lisa Shaffer says in her supplemental newsletter, that the item will no longer be on the Consent Calendar. Good! I or someone else would have pulled it, anyway. We spent HOURS on the Capital Improvement Project presentation. The reports should have been divided into several agenda items, over more than one evening.
When something was said to Mayor Barth, she insisted, "You asked for transparency! Before this would have been presented behind closed doors." Before we had goal-setting workshops. That has been replaced by Strategic Planning, which puts off the hard decisions, and substitutes substance with marketing.
Well, a meeting can be managed so that there is transparency, and more opportunities for public input, by keeping the presentations down to 20 minutes, tops, by splitting one agenda item into several, and by again instructing staff, including Tim Nash, not to read from his powerpoint presentations, or just read from his charts and tables.
What a contrast. First we are worn down by an interminable CIP Agenda report, then an Operating Expense portion of our Budget was initially put on the Consent Calendar, by CM Vina and Mayor Barth!
Even these outrageous amounts are understated, as the pensions and (if provided) retiree health care is underfunded -- to be paid later by the hapless taxpayers.
DeleteContract out as many functions as possible. And consider the use of volunteers when possible. In the Midwest and South, many cities this size use volunteer firefighters - or at least a mixed pro-volunteer department.
Regardless, the high firefighter salaries in CA are excessive -- we pay 60% more than the average paid firefighter gets int the other 49 states. BTW, CA cops earn 56% more than other states average.
Keep talking Richard we are listening.....
DeleteI agree the firefighter pay is excessive, they got a lot of that on the backs of 9/11, and with the help of Jerome Stocks and Jim Bond.
DeleteI don't think people are going to go for volunteer fire departments in a city of this size at this time in California...
Richard makes a good point about volunteers. The main reason I am not reapplying for the Parks and Recreation Commission is that in the past year we have not been asked to do anything. And I do mean-NOTHING. We were never involved in the Park, except for the naming and even that was taken away by Stocks and Bond. I can't help but wonder if they have too many employees in Parks and Rec. at this time, so why would they want to use the volunteers on the Commission? When the Park was first laid out, many citizens, including architects etc. offered up a beautiful park and gave it to the City for free. Did they use it? NO! This community has so many people who would like to volunteer, and who have the expertise to volunteer for certain things. However, most of them are usually turned away. I don't actually know how many employees the City has, but if I were the Council, I would sure want to know how many and what each and every one of them do. Some are awesome and needed. Some, well I don't know because I don't think anyone has down it. So many of us have asked for an Independent Audit of the City's books, and yet it has never happened. We spend money for lots of different consultants, I would think whatever the cost of an Independent Audit would be, could be worth it. Again, just my 2 cents.
DeletePersonally, I think we have the worst of both worlds at the City of Encinitas. They have many overpaid, full-time people who are paid based on their title and not their performance. To make up for it, they hire expensive consultants to deliver predetermined "results" so that the staff doesn't have make professional determinations themselves since they are not professional in any way beyond their pay and their titles.
DeleteIt would be bad enough if we only had to pay the 200+ city employees, but then we have to pay the consultants who they make do the hard lifting.
http://www.foxandhoundsdaily.com/2014/02/new-transparency-website-reveals-true-costs-payroll-pensions-californias-public-employees/
ReplyDelete"227,059 public employees in California collected $100,000+ compensation packages in 2012."
I wonder how many public employees there are in California? It seems Encinitas has MORE THAN OUR FAIR SHARE of employees making over $100,00 per year.
"The average CalPERS pension, for any recently retired participant who has worked 30+ years, also exceeds the average household income in California, $60,312 to $58,328. Shall we discuss time off with pay – something that doesn’t show up in the data? The 12 (or more) paid holidays and personal days, plus the four weeks (or more) of annual paid vacation days off for veteran workers, or the common “9/80″ program whereby you work 9 hour days for 9 days then get every second Friday off as “comp time” with pay? -"
Every second Friday off isn't comp time. The employee is paid an hourly rate for 80 hours in two weeks. To be critical of this component weakens the valid points made elsewhere in the post.
DeleteSo how does sitting in city trucks, surfing or meeting at Starbucks count as "work?" We have seen a lot of this activity among Encinitas staff.
DeleteWhen my dad worked at the SD School District, there was a meeting. The boss said: "We've been having complaints that at lunch time, District trucks have been seen at Jack in the Box, Denny's and the Jolly Roger for excessive periods of time". To which one man in the audience said: "The Jolly Roger?"
DeleteIt doesn't seem fair that every second Friday is off for those on salary. They aren't getting hourly wages, right? I do NOT think most City workers are working 9 hours per day that they are working for the City.
DeleteI was just quoting the linked source I gave re comp time. But our City employees got to enjoy another four day weekend, this week, over President's Day. Many non govt. workers, including trash pick-up, guys, or sanitation engineers, don't get President's Day off.
They are welcome to it, but not at taxpayers' expense. It's another perk, which non govt. employees seldom get.
We should look at stopping the every other Friday off policy. The amount of energy we are saving doesn't justify the lack of service to the public.
Lynn-The every other Friday off was put there in response to energy savings a long time ago. Many cities have now gone back to the 5 day work week. Why haven't we? I remember when Maggie was alive, and one could pay their electric bill at City Hall. One Friday a citizen came to pay her bill around 6:45PM and the doors were closed. Maggie went ballistic and told staff they had to stay until 7PM if they wanted to continue the 4/10 hours. However, I have been to City Hall at times it should have been open and it wasn't. Perhaps it is time to go back to a 5 day work week/ 8 hours a day.
DeleteIt is the era of civic corruption, where public sector employees (mainly Administrative )determine their own pay and benefits scales. The tax base is nothing more than a personal fund for their compensations and public work projects go begging for funds. City government should be minimized to a functional group that actually have job responsibilities. No more "cabinets" and spin doctors to muddy the waters .
ReplyDeleteTheir power is an uninformed electorate - that is what they count on. As long as they can control the reins, it will only go in their self-interest direction. This city needs to be bombarded with initiatives to reduce and limit government - they have become the new feudal tiered elite!
We've always had civic corruption, it's not new. The public sector employee scale got out of hand because people were taking a nap during the stock and real estate bubbles of the 80's, 90's, and 2000's.
DeleteWe all have to take our share of the blame for not being involved enough to allow this to happen. Anyone who voted for the Stocks/Bonds axis, this is part of your legacy.
You also have to look at the collapse of 401ks, private sector pensions and the collapse of the middle class in the U.S. for putting this issue in stark relief.
There's a lot of sour grapes now, perhaps rightly so, because of the shaft that corporate America has given us over the last 30 years with stagnant wages, inflation and runaway corporate profits.
My first question to council . Is
ReplyDeleteWhy is Vina still here?
Cut staff costs 30% and I will vote for a CIP tax
ReplyDeleteWhat a joke. Counsel is asking for a tax increase. While staff costs are skyhigh. The only cities doing taxes increases are ghetto cities like Vista Chula Vista and El Cajon.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't be half so insulting if the staff weren't actively working against the taxpayers who support them. The Stocks regime is alive and well with Vina and Sabine yoked as lead dogs and the Council firmly harnessed in place behind.
ReplyDeleteHow would this info not make every stomach turn. Vina and Sabine must go!
ReplyDeleteVina has Barth under his thumb.....she is a coward and sell-out.
DeleteDr. Lori appeared before Council Oct. 23, 2013 for anyone who wants to the see Sabine lose it.
ReplyDeleteI am a senior engineer at a local high tech company, I make 70k a year with paid medical and a 5% match on my 401k.When I leave the company my med. ins. will end.NO pension.I would not give a crap what city employees make except that I AM PAYING FOR IT.IT IS SIMPLY NOT FAIR.
DeleteThe Cabezon (A liberal that supports upping the min. wage.)
I'm asking because i don't know, but don't city employees pay into CALPERS instead of social security, so their pension is in place of social security?
Delete2:07, thanks for helping illustrate my point. I'm not saying public sector workers should get the amount they're getting, but we should also question where we're going as a society and why we've lost things like corporate pensions and medical insurance. I remember when my dad actually had a private pension and health insurance after he retired...
DeleteYou quoted the "median household income". Are the salaries the median or the mean (average)? We want to be consistent.
ReplyDeleteKind of nit-picking, but technically a fair point.
DeleteThe median is $85K pay plus $34K benefits. So a typical married couple of government workers would be pulling in $170K per year mid-career, and much more by late career, and be set for life at 55 with enormous pensions giving them decades of leisure and travel.
WCV
Try buying your home at today's prices with only 20% down and look at the monthly mortgage payment alone. See if you could afford to live here.
Delete12:14 fact property along the coast in encinitas is selling well, east of the 5 Is also selling well. SemmsSeams there are lots of people buying homes, if you're not one of them is it envious of you to want what they have earned?
DeleteEncinitas is a rich guy town now. You're not buying a house here unless you can lay down a million bucks. Supply and demand, and the rise of real estate as an investment vs. shelter thanks to low interest rates and hedge fund buying.
Delete8:12 AM
DeleteEnvious? No, I've benefited from the situation. Why would you conclude that I'm envious? Yes, houses are selling well in Encinitas and the prices have been going up after they pretty much maintained their level through the recession. As 8:16 AM says, Encinitas is becoming a city for the well off and not just along the coast. My 12:14 AM comment was to get people to do a little calculation for perspective that's all. For all the bitching about the city that goes on here, a lot of people appear to want to live here and are willing to pay top dollar to do it.
10:21 it's called the Pacific Ocean. So what waw your point about who can or can not live here, or the cost of housing?
DeleteLisa Shaffer and Teresa Barth along with Phony Tony believe it is the government's job to make housing affordable. Who are they self appointed rulers? If Shaffer wants her kids to live here teach them how to work, same with Kranz. Instead thge three blind mice led by Vina are pushing ways to upzone the city and rob of us of our quality of life by increasing densitites, traffic and ubranization.
People are not bitching. You might think it is ok to take from one private sector employee and their family and give that money to a government employee and their family - I don't.
11:02 AM
DeleteIt's called the state legislature. They're the ones who want to make it possible that some not so well off people might be able to afford to live in Encinitas. And the legislature feels strongly enough about it that they let those people sue the city if they don't try. Whether you believe, or I believe, that is proper is irrelevant. It's the law. You want it changed? Talk to your state senator and/or assembly person. Don't lay it on the city.
11:15 AM
DeleteThe state legislature make it possible for their contributors to destroy affordable housing under the guise of "helping" the not so well off people.
Density bonus is fraud in the planning department.
11:02 that is why I voted yes on A, now I don't need to depend on corrupt kleptocrats in Sacramento or Phony Tony, Sociliast Shaffer, Barth, Gaspar or Muir to protect my quality of life, now I have a vote. Vote no to rezoning any current agricultural or commercial land to residential, that way we keep the kleptocrats out. That is why Barth and Gaspar along with Vina are plotting overlay zones to defeat A, we know how it works
DeleteRemember, pensions are generally calculated based on HIGHEST annual pay, not average pay. For example, almost all firefighters spend at least a year as a "fire fighter captain" -- which is the guy in charge of the truck. It's THAT salary off which the pension is calculated -- even if they guy worked 29 of the 30 years as just a firefighter.
ReplyDeleteI asked this question at the last 2/12 Special Meeting, before Council adjourned into closed session for Labor Negotiations.
DeleteI was told for second tier (new hires) employees, their pension is calculated on the average of the last three years.
My understanding is that this can be changed for everyone; I think even for previously hired, the calculation for their pension benefits for their remaining years, can be based on their average pay. It shouldn't have to be the average of only the last three years. That's not the way it's done in the private sector.
At least Vons won't burn down - that's where you find them half the time.
DeleteCHP have a scam too - retire after claiming a "work place disability" often "stress" - it bumps the pension way up. Civil servants? More like civil opportunists.
DeleteChristy Guerin our former mayor, had retired from the Sheriff's Dept. with a disability, stress fractures in her knees, for which she is paid $3,000 per month, even though she was running relay races, while on Council, including while on her taxpayer subsidized junkets to the city formerly known as Hondo, Japan. This was documented by NCT articles, written by excellent former reporter Adam Kaye, who now works for the County.
DeleteChristy Guerin continues to get this government disability through the taxpayers, even while on Council, and afterwards, while she was working as Brian Bilbray's District Manager, also at taxpayer expense, making an additional $85,000 per year, or more, plus benefits. I believe her daughter worked for Bilbray, too. Glad he got voted out of office.
All this time, meanwhile, Christy Guerin's husband was making probably over $100,000 as a Colonel in the Sherrif's Department; he also received a settlement for a Workman's Compensation case, and appealed, because he thought it wasn't enough!
He lost his appeal. But he still got his settlement, and Christy still gets her retirement disability. It should have been a conflict of interest for Christy Guerin, while on Council, to negotiate more hours for deputies assigned to Encinitas, because of her husband's position. Glenn Sabine told Guerin, go right ahead, no worries.
Richard is correct, it's based on highest pay. This is why the NYFD insisted that firefighters be present at the clean up of the twin towers long after it was necessary, because they were earning overtime !!
DeleteThe same Adam Kaye who went to work for Pam Slater?
DeleteThe same Adam Kaye who had the balls to report that residents who spoke out against a 35% pay and pension increase were ignored when Jerome Stocks, Bond and Convict Dalgaer approved a 35% pay and pension increase to Mark Muir and his cronies. Kaye also reported that after Stocks and Dirty Dan approved the increases city employees gave Stocks a standing ovation.
DeleteGuerin should have been prosecuted for compensation fraud if she is doing activities contrary to her claimed injuries. Fraud is acceptable in a privileged class of people. Dalager got cut slack from Dirty Dumanis because he could have been a catalyst for further skeletons in closets revelations.
DeleteBecause Guerin is getting retirement disability, that's different than a "straight" workmens' compensation case.
DeleteYes, fraud happens all the time, when numbers are "tweaked" and data is massaged. If staff conclusions cannot be supported by actual data; that is fraud, in my eyes.
Too often, conclusions are based only on "opinions" of so-called experts, that have been formed long before the results of any surveys and/or any actual analyzation of the facts are in.
The conclusions are based on what is "wanted" by administrators and politicians, not what is.
Must. Race. For. Bottom.
ReplyDeleteThe $tock$ $yndrome!
DeletePlease explain.
Delete"Race for the bottom" is a common leftist/union refrain, which seems to mean "just because private sector workers don't have outrageous, unsustainable pensions doesn't mean government workers shouldn't have them."
Please note that even when corporations commonly gave pensions, they were not nearly as obscene as the 2.7% @ 55 that current Encinitas employees get, or even the 2% at 60 that future employees will get.
Race to math.
WCV
As a proud leftist who believes in and respects the importance of legal contracts, and not just when it is convenient for me, I find your attempt to slam me with labels fairly amusing. I could call you a profit fetishist who wants to welch on legal agreements to preserve your dwindling rate of return on your investments, but that would be unseemly.
DeletePlease note that we live in a consumer economy, thanks in part to the "profit at all costs" mentality you seem to espouse. Union contracts and a degree of financial security are essential to all of us, even the Masters of the Universe who want to squeeze teachers and firefighters to further line the pockets of the richest few. Obscene, indeed.
My understanding is that the SEIU, the union which represents City employees, currently has no signed contracts?
DeleteContracts for salaries and benefits can be renegotiated, can't they? I know they can be and have been for private sector unions.
I don't want to squeeze teachers' pay checks. That isn't what we're talking about, here. We are talking about our City workers. I have been talking about City workers who get over $100K per year taking a 20% pay cut.
What is unfortunate, for teachers, in my opinion, is that administrators are greatly overpaid. They are among "the richest few." It is obscene what our City Manager and his fairly new cabinet are making, as I see it.
We cannot continue to balance our budgets by raising taxes and fees, or increasing debt.
It would be unseemly for you to talk about dwindling returns on investments. Many people who do get pensions, in the private sector, have their retirements tied to a "dwindling rate of return on investments." Yet it is the richest few who have orchestrated an unstable Stock Market without adequate regulations, where brokers and bankers regularly take advantage of the elderly and "the little guy," while they rake in profits, "win or lose."
To me, this isn't about being left or right, in our City. It's a non partisan issue.
This is actually about fiscal discipline and accountability vs. a strategic plan marketing "strategy" designed to obfuscate, delay and mislead.
Keep believing that Lynn. This is definitely about teachers and firefighters, because when the pensions for this particular wedge group are dissolved and folded back into lower tax rates, teachers , then firemen, then military pensioners, then children and other social security recipients will arrive at the front of the "reform" queue for their lesson in gilded age capitalism. Although you wouldn't know it through casual observation, the reality is that everyone but a select few are on that list. Some of us are aware enough to see it, others keep watching TV and consuming stupid crap with the short term gains they realize from tax- and pension "reforms" and other community killing initiatives being pushed by the super-rich.
Deletehttp://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/26/us-usa-wisconsin-koch-idUSTRE71P28W20110226
Teachers work 180 days per year yet receive 365days of salary and benefits. Cut their pay??? Hell yes!!! Along with the loyal city workers.. Both of which are enjoying today day 3 of a 4 day paid vacation......
DeleteAbout those Koch brothers...
Delete10:52 you want me to work harder to pay for Mark Muir and other city pension hogs to retire at age 55 With full benefits for their families......You believe it is oOK to take from me and to give to them. That is not only stealing it is morally bankrupt. Becuase uou believe it is the job of government to take from the many and give to a few does not mean we should join you , Raul Castro and Marx.
DeletePension hogs, nicely dehumanizing term. It's not just me who wants you to suck it up and pay what you (via the democratic system) have agreed to pay?
DeleteNone of those filthy rich public employees you so disdain will live forever, and one day your dream of low pay for social stewardship will be realized through attirion. We'll see how the economy hums right along when everyone is mired in debt, terrified of ending up on the street, and beholden to people who like you hate them for their very existence.
Yeah, work harder, pay your damned taxes, and stop destroying America..
The Koch Brothers still contribute a ton of money, don't get me started about the influence of money in our political system.
DeletePersonally, I'm for the UK system, 3 month presidential election cycle, 3 debates, publically funded, no outside money allowed.
Race to the math WCV. Despite the best efforts of the greedy class, there are still millions of union members. They would be the denominator (that's the thing that goes on the bottom in what we call a fraction). Now what you do is divide the upper thingy by the lower thingy, and get the per person donation rate. Got it? Now, how many Koch brothers are there...?
DeleteOh, and about that Washington Examiner? You might want to Google Philip Anschutz. My guess is that he and his family are educated at schools none of the readers of this blog could even consider affording. Pensions aren't even an afterthought for his type.
The effort to return fiscal solvency to our cities will not be an easy one. What we need is some kind of group of civic leaders from across the board to start working on the issues of pensions.
DeleteNo matter what your walk of life, or political persuasion, you can look at the math and see that in California, our city and state pensions are unsustainable.
Pay is a trickier issue, because like it or not, that gets into a sticky area about what pay is fair/warranted for what job at what time, in both public sector and private.
Do I have the right to unilaterally call for a someone down at the city's pay to be cut 20%? I am a taxpayer, so I do have a say, but what if they're paying for their kids to go to college and their pay is cut and the kid can no longer go to that school. What is fair, should city pay be pegged to the private sector? At one time, the private sector's overall compensation was higher, and now it's not...
These are the real moral questions underlying this debate, and I for one don't go for the unfettered capitalism argument that morals don't come into play.
BTW, the Washington Examiner was founded by Phil Anchutz, one of the wealthiest men in America. He's not exactly pro-union. Let's be honest, guys like the Koch Brothers would like to stamp out what's left of Unions.
This isn't to say Unions haven't become a shell of their former selves, with corruption and self-dealing. But you also have them to thank for the 5 day workweek.
-Mr. Greenjeans
Not to mention that the cal st teachers retirement fund owns " slab city" east of Niland and is about to chop up those 640 acres and turn it over to developers. The CSTR will reap all the cash from that cow.
Delete8:38 - I can only conclude you are in fact one of the pension higs I reference. In your ramblin rant you offer not a single fact to argue against contention that is morally bankrupt to ask Encinitas residents to work longer and harder so city employee's like Mark Muir ($170,00) Pat Murphy (145,00) Don Heissner (212,000) Phil Cotton (90,000.00) and their familioes can retire in a life of luxury built on the backs of the common man.
DeleteIn your world view it is acceptable to take the hard earned dollars from one private sector family and then give it to another family that works for teh government. You believe it is acceptable to take the food, education and clothing from one family and give it to a government employed family. It is who you are, own it.
I on the other ahnd believe that both private and public wrokers should each individually be responsible for paying their own retirement. I am againt one group taking from another. You on teh other ahdn support taking from one group as long as it benefit you and your cronies. Lucky for you President Obama, The Encinitas City Council, Gus Vina and Mark Muir support your position. They too all believe in taking from private workers to feed the pigs in government. Oink - you've earned it.
8:38, this is your justification for public employees' compensation being a multiple of private-sector employees' compensation?
DeletePeople in the public sector have created the structure and specifics to benefit themselves at taxpayers' expense. There is no competition in the public sector to act as a check. Public employees have created their own gravy train. The figures clearly, indisputably show that.
That voters have elected some of the people in the public sector doesn't mean the citizenry endorses everything they do. Periodically electing new players doesn't change much because the problems are systemic. The structure and specifics are so deeply embedded that only thorough reform can change them.
The only sensible way to establish and maintain public employees' compensation is to peg it to private employees' compensation. Competition has a balancing effect in the private marketplace. The lack of competition in the public sector and the fact that the public sector creates its own immunity lets compensation there go haywire.
@10:50 Since you talk like a self-important TEA partier, I can only conclude that you are indeed yet another pathetic, Terrified, Elderly, and Anglo. Am I right? The average person taking your stance in this country is old, white, male, and desperately afraid that someone else will outperform you or get something you feel you deserve. You're also hell bent on making life as profitable for yourself as possible, and doing so in a way that keeps others from showing you up.
DeleteThe answer to your unspoken question is no. I am not in a union (I wish I were), and I do not have a pension in my future (I wish I did), What I do have is one of the best high tech educations in the country,a set of job skills that can't yet be outsourced, and pretty decent job prospects for the foreseeable future ...and yet I want my taxes raised and my neighbors to have a sense of security and community that bitter dickheads like you insist they don't deserve.
Go figure.
Well, what I also have is a sense of self awareness and a compulsion to honesty that allows me to see that I didn't get where I am by myself. I have been lucky enough to be surrounded teachers and public servants who started out in careers with shit pay because teaching and public service were considered honorable professions by the nation at large. I have multiple degrees from state and private research universities that were built and maintained on taxpayer dollars, and that wouldn't exist if economic thugs and brats like you ran the show.
You can scream "I Built That" as much as you want, and it won't be true. You and I have both benefited from public largesse, I'm just man enough to admit it. You're a fool or a liar if you think any of us are where we are economically exclusively because of our own efforts.
Lastly, by continuing to twist numbers and cite a few examples of what you consider "luxurious" salaries, you seem like a fool. $90K is an excessive salary in San Diego county? You need to get out more often.
Get down off your ill-informed high horse, and never lecture me about morality again.
12:26, show me a free market with unfettered/unbiased competition in this country, and our discussion can begin. That's a libertarian fantasy that has never existed once in the history of humanity.
Delete12:57: I'm a liberal, but what we're talking about is basic fairness. The public pay/benefits should be in line with the private sector, since those are the folks that pay for it. You deserve dscent pay and a pension, but what is decent? I worked 18 years for an aerospace corporation, my pension is $496.00 per month.
Delete12:26 said nothing about "unfettered/unbiased competition." Competition exists in the private sector, and the various biases tend to balance each other out. They are themselves an element of competition.
DeleteThere is no competition in the public sector. That's why it underperforms the private sector in every respect. That's why the phrase "good enough for government work" exists.
Government "under performs the private sector in what respect, exactly? You do know that government and private industry have different goals, right? Let's do a head to head comparison: how well has school privatization worked out? Private sector for-profit companies vs. bloated, overpaid public sector nincompoops. Is that about right? So...how is that working out for the free market argument?
DeleteLet's go to that liberal bastion, Forbes Magazine: http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2013/09/10/charter-school-gravy-train-runs-express-to-fat-city/
The verdict is in, children are not widgets, and corporations do not belong in education. The same applies to most government functions. Your assertion is ludicrous.
the goverment is failing to teach our kids, proof? charter schools common core sucks
Delete12;50 you a racist. anglo? dusgusting. Unfortunate you don't support the vision of MLK, I do.
DeleteSexist and ageist too!
DeleteWCV
The fact is that TEA partiers are old white men.
Deletehttp://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/17/rel4b.pdf
and
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.html?src=me&ref=general
"The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45."
The TEA party is the Wallace coalition of the 21st century. Much like the desperate racism of the late 60's drove the fight against civil rights, the arguments made here for cutting public pensions and pay are purely spiteful. Furthermore, the latter exactly mirror the tripe that has been coming out of the TEA party/Koch Brothers alliance ever since this country elected a brown skinned man President.
The days are long gone when calling someone a leftist/unionist is all it takes to shut down an argument. Reaganomics, free trade agreement, and an obsession with corporate profits at the expense of jobs, communities and families have all failed. Vilifying a handful of Encinitas city employees and using them as an excuse to destroy incentives to work for the public good is an immoral and doomed strategy, and it won't go unchallenged.
When I read the words of TEA partiers and Encinitas NIMBYs like those who so often post here, I see fear. It's very sad, but not so sad that I am willing to let grampa steamroll our public infrastructure without a fight.
12:50 got educated in everything but how to be happy. Most miserable poster I've ever heard.
Delete6:31- I agree with much of what you say, however, I don't think it is unjust to take a look at how many employees the City of Encinitas has, what their job description is, and are they performing it? Most City employees work hard, I agree. And I don't think taking away pensions is the answer. However, in these times of financial struggle for so many people, I don't think adding a new tax to pay for a property such as Pacific View, is the answer. It is a regressive tax, and I would never support it, if it were just up to me. I do support unions, as God only knows what would happen if the Koch Brothers, and their ilk, really got their hands on them. However, in these times, unions also have to give a little. Hopefully they are doing that. What I see, and I am not a financial wizard, are 5 people on the City Council who do not seem to have much financial insight and are relying on the fox who guards the chicken coop to tell them what to do. The fox is the problem, and we citizens who do live and work here, have every right to call it as we see it. Unless they took away our First Amendment and I missed it. The second reason I am leaving the P@R Commission is so I can speak out again, without fear of repercussions, and without someone like Stocks scramming at me. You are right. People are afraid. And fear often leads to aggression and revolution of some kind. History tells us this, over and over. Education IS important and I am more than happy to pay our teachers better salaries any day than the administrators. Am I the only person who wonders why we have 3 school districts, with 3 administrators, within our community of 63,000 people? It's ridiculous. We have Cardiff, that has 2 schools, EUSD, and San Dieguito School District. Think of the money we could save by making them one. And that is just one example of how we could cut costs and not hurt too many people. Teachers are underpaid, IMHO.
DeleteLet's get back to the topic of Encinitas city workers. The excuse that we have to let them continue to screw us and give them an annual raise on top of everything they already have does not work for me.
DeleteIf Encinitas staff is so "professional," why did they leave out their own pay from the chart that they published above? Why, because they get paid more than any of the 20,000 workers they captured in the chart even before taking into account their benfits package. Actual professional and ethical people would not leave out the highest-paid sector of Encinitas workers just because they don't want people to know how much we are actually paying them. On that basis alone, we should get rid of people!
If city workers keep getting onto this blog and accusing us of being racist, sexist, and Tea Partiers, I would say that they are like Marie Antoinette or any other out of touch abuser of the public trust. The peasants don't actually enjoy paying for gambling debts!
DeleteAt the City, we are bombarded with feel good messages about terrific customer service from city staff. Well, they are showing us their true colors since they leave off their own pay from the chart and ask us to "trust me."
I ask instead that you "show us!" They won't even tell us how much they make since then we could apply Return on Investment (ROI) formulas and show how much they are REALLY costing us. That will be a sorry day, and the city employees and pensioners are doing everything that they can to prevent that from happening.
What doesn't seem to get mentioned is duplicate positions with little to do. Many positions require "make work" to look needed. Look no further than planning / building to get an idea. And code enforcement is a complete farce.
Delete6:31 you appear to me a racist and a bigot. The ideas, values and freedoms put forth by the tea party are open to all. Tom Scott, the first black senator from South Carolina, Alan West aentitleare members of tnetone tea party along with other americAmericans of all races, sexes, religions and sexual orientation. The tea partyray is tolerant of all. The tea party opposes government taking from private workers to reward government workers, the tea party opposed the new taxes of obamacare that have forced millions of families to lose insurance, face higher premiums and lose doctors and hospitals, the tea party suooports parental choice in education, the tea party supports responsible spending and reduced debt. It appears to me you are racist. It is ok if you believe in more debt, reduced education for our kids, less control of your health care and taking from private sector employees to pay for luxurious retirments for fat cat pensioners, but don't ask the rest of us reasonable common sense taxpayers to join you
Delete8:30, thanks for the chuckle. Yeah, the TEA party is open to everyone, just like it's a grass roots movement with the voter's best interests in mind. So much so that they have been abandoned by the electorate and scorned by their corporatist patrons. Good stuff, you should do standup.
Delete9:00 if the tea party was irrelevant you would not be writing about them and the state run propagandist NBC CBS ABC NYTimes, USA today would not be writing to demonize them. ItBy the way, my post was about govermnet taking from private worker families to benefit govermentgovernment worker families. You know, like Obamacare where millions ovover american families lost their health plans and face higher premiums with less coverage for their kids. Meanwhile president Obama exempts his union friends, and the corrupt kleptocrats like Boehner, McCain, Pelosi and Reid get 72% subsidies from taxpayers to buy gold plated plans. These are the facts. Do you have any or are you only capable of name calling?
DeleteAlan West is a complete nutjob. luckily the people of his district and woke up and voted for a former Republican who switched parties to run against him.
DeleteThe kind of divisive rhetoric he uses is not something we need in our elected representatives. The same goes for the Dr. who's currently a Tea Party darling who made a comparison between gays and bestiality.
I'm sure the guy's a brilliant neurosurgeon, so maybe he should stick to that since he can't follow the first rule of politics in the information age, which is to keep outdated opinions like that to yourself...
Let's face it 11:53, you don't like Alan West or Ben Carlson because their ideas are liberty, freedom and equality for all based on indivivual choice self-reliance. They are ttolerant of the views of all while putting forth and promotion ideals of responsible spending and families. You prefer instead the ideologies of Al SSharp ton who fleeced taxpayers of money in the Tswana Bradley case and who ruined the lives of duke students by promoting lies and falshehoods. Mr SharptonSharp ton endorses the politics of race hate and division put forth by President Obama. The failed policies of President Obama,, Pelosi, Reid along with Jesse Jackson, Van Jones and Bernie Sanders have kept the poor in poverty - these are the facts. You may not like them but they are what they are.
DeleteRace to the polls to vote them out of office!
ReplyDeleteCurrent council is clueless. I wish they had someone on board with some brains.
ReplyDeleteVina is the devil…. until he is fired. nothing will change…..
Until he is fired I will not vote for an incumbent.
Based on the figures in the graphic, I'd say most people who live here don't work in the city, because there's no way you're paying the mortgage on a million dollar house with a 59k a year max salary..
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree, 8:58. Most people who work in Encinitas don't live in Encinitas. The exception could be some well-heeled City workers.
DeleteAs for a previous comment, made by a different anon poster, if a city worker making over $100,000 yearly, cannot afford a 20% cut, down to $100,000, then perhaps he or she and family should supplement their income, get college loans for their children, move to a more affordable nearby city, etc, all the same choices those who have worked or are working in the private sector have.
Public service used to be great because of job security, not because of high rates of pay, higher than the private sector.
I support teachers. Administrators make far too much at schools. Randy Duke Cunningham got convicted of accepting bribes. His wife was part of that. The Rhodes School would no longer take her as Director. She went back to EUSD, as an administrator, making over $100,000 per year, when she had before been gone, in Washington, much of the time, still pulling a salary. She may be retired now. She and her husband are drawing huge pensions, from the taxpayers.
People convicted of felonies should lose their government pensions, in my opinion. Still, this thread (WC's post) is about City worker compensation. To me, this shouldn't be a partisan issue.
It does seem to me it becomes about class warfare. Well not really warfare, but great discontent and public outcry at the inequity and injustices inherent in a system of the haves vs. the have nots, when a big portion of that upper tier are government employees.
Perhaps we can do something about it, locally, if we don't get distracted with name calling, bitterness, and changing the subject.
please clarify. What is a "big portion" to you? How much is too much? Do you really think that $100K is a large salary around here? Would you apply that same logic to private sector jobs?
DeleteYou argue against divisiveness, but your cherry picked examples and hyperbolic descriptions perpetuate it.
How many salaried private sector employees do you know in San Diego County whose pay is $100K per or more? I know none. The citydata and US Census Bureau sites give the median household income in Encinitas as $82,391 and in San Deigo County as $63,373.
DeleteI generally don't ask my friends about their salaries, but counting myself and my 13 reports, I know 14 who make well over $100K per year. I would estimate that my company employs over 600 people at that salary or more, all in San Diego County.
DeleteYour point?
Duke's old lady went back to EUSD??? I think she divorced stupid in order to distance herself, but it is doubtful she was unaware of his daliances. Fine points of the law, I suppose.
DeletePlus, cities having to pay out for criminal activities of their employees needs revision. San Diego will pay millions for Filner and the cops' supposed sexual advances... that should not be on the taxpayers' dime.
@3:26 Thanks for the tip. I checked citydata, and I think you might want to scroll down a bit to see the more relevant numbers. Specifically, the number you quote is far and away the worst case scenario, as it includes households with zero earners, most of whom are apparently living alone (presumably retirees and social security recipients).
DeleteBy contrast, the median income for 2 person families is $92, 773, and goes up from there. Median income for families with one earner starts at $99,472. and rises to about $122K when two earners are present.
All in all, those numbers are pretty much in line with the city employees some claim make at least 20% too much.
5:44, you're cherry picking. Medians across the board are used for statistical validity. Otherwise, the comparisons are not apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
DeleteMaybe fruits make good metaphors.
How is $122K for two earners "pretty much in line" with $170K for two earners?
DeleteAnd the $122K folks don't get set-for-life-at-55 pensions.
WCV
3:58, you asked about $100K private sector salaries in your 1:04 post. Assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you based your question on broad knowledge of local salaries, 3:26 responded to your challenge with the City and County medians. 3:26's point is the medians in the second sentence of his post.
DeleteIs your company where more than 600 people get more than $100K per year a defense contractor? If not, what's its category?
Hopping over from the Pacific View thread for a little cross-posting, Randy Duke's wife was once principal of Pacific View and Paul Ecke Central elementary schools.
DeleteI do not work in the defense industry, and I won't disclose my employer. We have very specific rules about social media interactions. Sorry I can't be more specific.
DeleteMy point still stands, in that I know plenty of Encinitas residents with household incomes of $125-175K per year who do not live extravagant lifestyles, and are extremely concerned about their financial futures. There is no objective reason to believe that the city employees are living high off the hog with their current salary/benefits.
WCV, it's true that without a detailed understanding of the variation in the data, I can't comment on whether the $122K vs. $170K is comparable. Neither have I seen data that there indeed exist households with two highly paid city employees bringing in $170K every year. If there are, is it a common enough occurrence that wholesale changes in pensions and renumeration are required?
DeleteAlso, as to cherry picking, I think my comparison is valid. The first comparison made was between Encinitas salaries and median salaries in either San Diego or Encinitas. The initial discussion focused on the pay of current Encinitas employees relative to the pay of other county residents. A paycheck implies the presence of a job, which makes the salaries of retired and unemployed county residents irrelevant to the discussion. If anything, my comparison is more apples to apples than the original set of statistics.
As for the "set-for-life" pensions, what fraction of all Encinitas city pensioners fall under this category? I recall reading that the average state pensioner is looking at about $39K per annum in retirement. If what we're talking about is a very few "lucky ducks," is this conversation at all relevant to the city's future financial stability, or is it merely rabble rousing?
to be clear, I mean statistically comparable. Obviously 122 and 170 are different numbers, but if the standard deviation and sample size are large enough, it is possible that the two medians are not statistically significantly different.
DeleteDo the math. 2.7% @ 55 or even the 2% @ 60 that future employees will get is WAY more than $39K per year.
DeleteMeanwhile what the taxpayers get from Social Security is something like 0.8% @ 68.
WCV
That $39K per year is a deliberately deceptive number put out by the unions -- that may be right for the average for existing employees, who retired before pay and pensions skyrocketed out of control. It bears absolutely no relation to what current employees will get.
DeleteFor clarification, "2.7% @ 55" means 2.7% x years of service x highest pay. So assume a typical city worker starts at 25, works 30 years, and has a final pay of $100,000. That's $81,000 per year starting at 55. On Social Security, we'll max out at around $36,000 starting at age 68!
WCV
No need to be rude, and I can do the math myself, thanks. It seems there is plenty of cherry picking to go around, so I'll ask straight up, how prevalent are these "outrageous" examples you talk about? Are we talking about just the four people listed above (whose salaries range from 90K-212K per year), or is this an epidemic of financial parasitism? Does the two earner 170K example really exist, or is it also a "deliberately deceptive" scenario you describe? Also, what fraction of the pension outlays are going to be covered by existing investments, and what fraction will require new revenues?
DeleteIn other words, what is the ACTUAL pension risk Encinitas faces?
No rudeness intended.
DeleteEven if there are no married couples of city workers, isn't an individual $81,000 for life at 55 for doing nothing obscene in and of itself? That's not a cherry-picked example. That's a typical worker who starts a little while after college and retires at a quite typical final pay. I don't know any private sector companies whose workers get that.
The admitted unfunded liabilities are already in the tens of millions, and the risks go much higher.
WCV
WC, who says that most of them even WENT to college? Their credentials are mostly underwhelming and are often lower than what their job descriptions require. A case in point is Patrick Murphy. Department Directors are supposed to have a Master's degree. Patrick Muphy had an undergraduate degree yet was paid like he had one.
DeleteDoes Tim Nash have a Master's?
7:00, you were asked your company's category, not its name. You're posting anonymously, so there's no connection between you and your company's business category.
DeleteThe City employs about 235 people. More than 80 of them get $100K per year or more. On top of that, they get great benefits and pensions far beyond what's typical in the private sector.
WCV, you're getting at my question. Are these millions in unfunded liabilities like the "impending" social security meltdown (i.e., not a true issue, but one that can be handled with small tweaks in the current system, and that won't be a real issue for decades) or are they actual financial hazards. Your term "unfunded liabilities" is a bit amorphous, given that a large part of these payouts is slated to come from investment of existing funds (as opposed to new revenues).
DeleteAlso, if you've worked until you're 55 and only make 81K per year, it means you started off pretty low and had only parsimonious raises. I suspect that these people don't have huge retirement nest eggs, and they aren't going to get SSI, so why are you begrudging them this modicum of financial security in their old age? Do you similarly disdain military "retirees" who use their taxpayer sponsored training to double dip from age 38 onward? I have family who retired as officers at age 45, and take home 80% of their salary, with health care and discounted rounds of golf for the rest of their lives. If you're serious about "renegotiating" agreements made years ago, why not start there?
No, the tens of millions of unfunded liabilities are all real dollars owed for past service. Any tweaks in the current system would only slow the rate of increase of additional unfunded liabilities.
DeleteAnd $81K per year for life at 55 is a "modicum of financial security in their old age?"
I'm afraid we're far enough apart on definitions that further dialogue would not be productive.
WCV
9:08, I've told you I work for a company that employs at least 600 people in San Diego who make over 100K per year. I don't work in defense, which leaves very few employers of that size in the area. If I mentioned the specific nature of my field, even a sixth grader could figure out my employer.
DeleteBy way of comparison, I'd say the ratio of >100K to <100K employees in my company is currently about the same as you've described for Encinitas. Is that what you're getting at?
That ratio has drawn the ire of Wall street, who say our workforce is fat and underproductive. What they mean is we're too expensive for them to keep raking in profits. As I mentioned, I don't have a pension, and our company recently rejiggered our 401k so that people won't get a match each paycheck any more, and their match is at risk if they are fired before the accumulation period has been met. The widely held belief at work is that these are only first steps to making us contractors without benefits, competing for jobs with young, inexperienced imports.
I've seen the employee demoralization and desperation for some modicum of financial security that those two moves have engendered, and how hard it is to recruit talent as a result. Many of my reports hold a Ph.D., and they are petrified that they will end up unemployed or severely underemployed because American industry is looking for cheap labor.
That race for the bottom strategy is increasingly common in for-profit industries. If the same were to happen in government services, we'd really deserve the employees and services we ended up with. I see people here arguing for exactly that course of action, and it fills me with sadness and a sense that our country is truly headed for mediocrity. We in Encinitas can still take a stand and honor our agreements with our employees. It's the right thing to do no matter how painful it seems.
I agree, we don't see retirement in the same way, so let's drop it.
DeleteAs for the tens of millions in unfunded liabilities, I would greatly appreciate some links to help me better understand the nuts and bolts of the issue. It seems highly unlikely that all 235 Encinitas employees burden us with that substantial a debt, or that they will all retire at once, let alone all finish out their careers in Encinitas.
It also seems likely that the retirement payouts will come over time, and not in one big bolus. Is that correct, or is there a one-time payout?
9:38, is your post a justification to overcompensate public employees? Not only in Encinitas but everywhere?
DeleteSix hundred is a fraction of what total?
According to my work experience and that of people I know, a $100K+ salary in San Diego County is unusual. If that were the norm or near it, the median household income would be higher.
Maybe that sixth grader can check this page and guess what business category your company is in:
http://sourcebook.sddt.com/Source/?Target=List&luid=VWNQGQM2#.UwG1sF70vzc
A link for 9:45—
Deletehttp://www.civics-101.com/hoodlink/pdfs/HL-2012-08-LD.pdf
9:45,
Delete"It seems highly unlikely that all 235 Encinitas employees burden us with that substantial a debt ..."
In aggregate, they do. Some more than others, obviously. What's highly unlikely about it?
"or that they will all retire at once..."
Irrelevant. We owe the money and have to come up with the cash regardless of the timing of their retirements, which obviously wouldn't be all at once.
"let alone all finish out their careers in Encinitas."
Again irrelevant. Even if they move on to other cities, we are responsible for making up the unfunded liability for past Encinitas service. Nobody is talking about future service here.
It also seems likely that the retirement payouts will come over time, and not in one big bolus. Is that correct, or is there a one-time payout?
How is that any better? If you're told you owe $2 million per year that you don't have for the next 20 years, how is that better than owing a $40 million balloon payment at the end of 20 years?
WCV
9:38,
DeleteI worked at SAIC for 8 years, and the minute the company went public, they made every effort to dump longtime workers.
A lot of jobs were moved to low cost destinations like Oak Ridge, Tenn, Arkansas, and a lot of IT function was moved to Orlando, Fl, where they had such a hard time finding qualified workers that HR had to come down from San Diego to recruit people from Atlanta.
My point to dovetail with yours is it's poopy pants time out there if you're a worker over 35 making a decent salary. In IT, they specifically brought in an axe man who's self described mission in life was "extracting the value in IT", ie firing people.
With all do respect to the people on this board, if you've haven't gone through downsizing, and I have several times, you will never understand the fear and desperation of that event.
So when I see people on this board talking about mandatory pay cuts for city workers, I say "Wait until they come for your job, your pension, your kids education".
I understand the pension math, it's unsustainable. That has to be dealt with, but even there, try to have some compassion.
And Lynn, with all due respect, how would you like someone telling you to move because of all of your issues with the city, why don't you just sell your house and move to Oceanside?
You really have to be careful with statements like that, these are real people, leading real lives, not some abstract concept where you can pour out your frustrations on them.
It's bad times out there, with 15% unemployment people. If you've got a job, be thankful. Even more thankful if you can afford your own home.
I don't have either, but I'm still thankful I get to live here...
WC,
DeleteA hiring freeze seems like a reasonable proposition to me at this time.
I'm not a Pollyanna, it's not going to be easy to fix city hall, although I think it can be done. I have to admit, I don't think Vina is the guy to do it, wrong guy, wrong time.
But I would urge people not to have an all out war on workers at city hall. I've had some good experiences down there, some not so great, but that's true of everywhere these days.
Politeness seems to be a lost art, so I understand some of Teresa's drive for civility at city hall. That said, I would like to see some new leadership come into council to tackle our revenue and pension issues...
Thanks 11:54, I would have preferred something a little more objective, but I will read through those links, for sure.
DeleteFeb16 11:20PM,
DeleteI'm not sure what your obsession with my employer is about, but I would hope that my sixth grader would use a slightly more up to date resource than than the one in your link.
As to your experience compared to mine, I may have mentioned in another comment that I can't swing a dead cat at my cubicle without hitting at least a a couple of Ph.D.'s. My experience is not typical, but I feel it's relevant that dozens of my co-workers live in Encinitas or Carlsbad.
I think that data cited elsewhere in this thread also directly addresses your objection, in that it shows that the median household income for a one-earner household in Encinitas is right around $100K.
Disagree strongly. You have to see if there is actual corruption at city hall and the answer is obvious to me. It's time to fire and get new blood, I have compassion only for the few good people and there are very few. Most citizens are in the dark how things have become, total shame.
Delete5:18, Has employment in San Diego County changed a lot since June 28, 2013? If you have a later source that differs greatly from the Daily Transcript's chart, please provide it.
DeleteYou cited your unnamed company, where about 600 people get more than $100K per year, as somehow indicative of employment in San Diego County and used that fallacy to justify more than 80 Encinitas employees' getting $100K per year or more.
Curious minds wonder just who this extraordinary employer is, or at least what business category it's in.
You further claimed that a ~$100K median for one-earner households in Encinitas is somehow representative of household income as a whole and again used a fallacy to justify unusually high compensation among more that a third of City employees.
Medians are used to represent the whole spectrum rather than a rarefied percentage at the top. It's not valid to cherry-pick one relatively small category and use it to describe the whole.
@6:55
DeletePlease refer to the comment above that says one earner households start at around 100K median household income, AND IT GOES UP FROM THERE! Over 1/3 of Encinitas homes have over $100K per year income. Still cherry picking?
Also, key information about both a current and past SD employer was out of date at the link provided, in one cases by 12 years.
Just because you aren't familiar with high tech industries, doesn't mean you can't imagine that a well-educated, tenured staff are employed in large numbers in one company, and that some industries lend themselves to rewarding their highly trained employees in order to retain them. You seem smarter than that.
If you demanded that a quarter of my company have a 20% paycut and benefits freeze, what do you think would be left standing of that business?
8:37- I am pretty sure I know of what company you work for. Thank you for any contributions to the general well being that you may offer. I would like to offer that personally I think that there is a high difference between a well educated Ph.D. or Masters in biotech and other career choices. I don't see that at our City Hall, nor am I expecting them to make great breakthroughs in science. I care deeply about the fate of all people. However, I also am a believer in working hard. And, even then, shit sometimes happens, as it has in the last decade of our economy. Everyone may have to give a little to get anything. I certainly don't think they should have to reduce their salaries by 20%, however, I would think that as a member of the private sector you might agree that they should have performance reviews that are accurate and constructive. By giving Vina an excellent performance review, I have to admit, I was surprised. I have no idea what other employees have been given in regards to performance, or if they are even performed at the City. Before I because a "shrink" I worked for a multinational corporation. I was in sales. And, every quarter we had a quota. If you didn't meet it one quarter, no problem. 2 quarters, you were talked to, 3 quarters and you were given your pink slip. The public sector has never had to be accountable in that way. And when economic times were good, not many people actually wanted to work in the public sector. Things are a bit different these days. People are losing jobs and not being able to find another. So, the public sector is starting to look good to some people who would have never said so before. I think this may be the source of some of the discontent I am reading on this blog. Answers-that's the hard part. But something does have to give, and it will have to be relatively soon or there will be change, whether we like it or not.
DeleteSorry for all the grammatical and typo errors. I did have to work today so I am a bit tired.
Delete8:37, you apparently don't know what "median" means. It's the exact middle of the range. The estimated median household income in Encinitas in 2011 was $82,391. Find out for yourself why all the households must be considered and why the median is cited rather than the mean or mode.
Delete@12:49
DeleteHow about the geometric mean, which is often a more appropriate treatment for large populations with outliers that cover a significant range?
Let's review. Your argument was that since you don't believe that there are many Encinitans who have hh income over 100K per year, my impressions must be fantasies. You then use a median value to describe a population that in North County San Diego that is a non-Gaussian distribution (i.e., the curve is not Bell shaped), and includes a small but not insignificant group of residents (mostly single occupancy, no earner households) who make less than 43K per year That group significantly skews the median downward, making it useless for the descriptive purposes you applied.
Taking a look at the actual breakdown of the data, where households are described by the number of earners, it becomes possible to determine the actual number of households by yearly income. A quick total of those groups shows that about 37.5% of Encinitas households bring in more than 100K per year. That's almost 21,000 residents.
Nice work, Dr. Lorri, the clues were all there, no?
DeleteAs to the requirement for a graduate degree, I disagree. Plenty of tenured bachelor's degree holders make over 100K in my industry, whether they are in marketing, finance, operations, regulatory, it doesn't matter (as long as they are FTE). The cost of living is high here, and salaries are commensurately higher in order to compete with Boston, San Francisco, and New York.
Tenured government workers can be an invaluable asset to a community, and should be paid accordingly. I'm certain that not all of the top earners in Encinitas gov't are slackers or idiots, and those people are worth retaining and compensating.
From personal experience, for people in their 40's and older who have been making financial planning decisions based on the availability of promised funds, changes to or termination of a pension plan are seismically destructive to retirement plans, household financial stability, and emotional well-being. With not enough time to correct one's financial course and inadequate increases in salary to increase 401k savings, working oneself to death at one's desk becomes a distinct possibility.
There has to be a middle way.
5:47, There must be a reason why statisticians use the median when describing the economic aspects of communities. Maybe the median is most representative of the income range because it's least affected by outliers, and it provides a good basis of comparison with other communities.
DeleteSurely, there are Encinitas households with incomes over $100K over year. That was not denied. What was challenged is the contention that because there are some households with $100K+ incomes, paying at least 80 of about 235 City employees more than $100K is justified.
By that logic, if RSF were a city, its employees' salaries would be fabulous!
Your stats: ~37.5% of Encinitas households at $100K+ a year equals almost 21K residents. Households vs. residents. Are you mixing apples and oranges?
Does 5:47 realize that a one-earner household would have to be getting an extraordinarily high salary to meet the cost of living in Encinitas unless that one earner were the only person in the household? Or if thrifty, one earner and a non-earner spouse/significant other. So to isolate the category of one-earner households and claim it represents anything but itself is silly.
Delete6:59
DeleteJust go look at the data. You will see exactly what I mean if you look at the way the data are laid out.
Encinitas household incomes are described, having been divided into deciles or duo deciles, or something like that. The fraction of Encinitas households represented byeach segment is listed, and all such numbers add up to 100%. The 75-100K group is the largest income segment. Combining all segments above $100K shows that about 37.5% of the Encinitas population resides in a household with greater than 100K income per year.
You may find this interesting.....
Deletehttp://www.irs.gov/uac/SOI-Tax-Stats-Individual-Income-Tax-Statistics-ZIP-Code-Data-(SOI)
- The Sculpin
OK – this is for 2008 – the 2011 stuff wasn’t up. There were 29,896 returns filed in zip codes 920024 and 92007. The break out is 18% had adjusted gross income of less than $10,000, 16% between $10K and $25K, 18% between $25K and $50K, 12% between $50K and $75K, 9% between $75K and $100K, 17% between $100K and $200K,, and 10% over $200K. Of the 29,896 returns filed, 11,648, or 39% were joint returns. There were a total of 54,411 exemptions claimed, which approximates the population of Encinitas. There’s a ton more stuff you can draw conclusions from, but I’ll leave all that fun stuff to the rest of you!
Delete- The Sculpin
Excellent find, Sculpin. Thank you.
DeleteSo the median taxpayer in both Encinitas zip codes is in an AGI range of $50,000 - $75,000. The average salaries & wages in that range are $43,500 for 92004 and $47,800 for 92007.
It's good to be a government worker!
WCV
We're getting very far off the point here and way beyond this reader's attention span. The point was that, if it exists, a high percentage of high earners living in Encinitas does not justify the City's grossly overcompensating many of its employees — that's salary, benefits, pensions, retirement age. Is a $216,300 salary +++ for the manager of a city with a population of about 61,000 justified?
DeleteVina is not the devil. He is just a terrible city manager that puts a city in bigger debt and pays more pensions and salaries. City Council needs to fire vina
ReplyDeleteWho benefits when public pension dollars get shifted to 401k ? The same people who are lobbying hardest to kill public pensions.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a fair point, there is a valid question to be raised about the difference between the pension of old and a 401k which isn't going to go up much the next 10-20 years because of the flat equities market.
DeleteNot to mention that management fees for 401k will remain steady in up OR down markets. The financial services industry hates pensions because they don't return enough profits.
DeleteWho benefits from the pension system as it is today? Staff. Who has to foot the bill for lavish pensions? Encinitas taxpayers. No encinitas resident gets the retirement package that the city staff does. We will have to work more so they can work less and live the good life. We won't be able to afford to do projects that enhance our quality of life if all the money goes to staff pay and benefits.
DeleteWhat you're encouraging is simply a race to the bottom for the enrichment of a very few (those who run the financial services industry). It is already a bitter race that nobody you know will win. You are being played by people who can easily manipulate you through your misguided sense of justice (which is really just greed and envy) and tap into it for political gains.
DeleteEnjoy the ride, and say hi to your grandchildren for me. They will be living with you well into adulthood, after all.
Encinitas taxpayers are already in a race to the bottom. We fund city workers pensions before we get to put away a dime for our own retirements! They tell us that they are providing customer service. I don't see it and I want it dramatically cut back since I am sick of funding all of the positions that not only have no positive impact but actually have a detrimental community impact like members members of the Planning Department. I would like to see that department scaled back to about 4 or 5 people since they are overall worthless.
Delete8:25, I think you've spent too long in the North County bubble. Encinitas taxpayers live on some of the most valuable real estate in the country, and have excellent schools and public services to further enhance the value of their investments. Failure to adequately plan for tax payments isn't anyone's fault but yours, and can be easily resolved by moving to more affordable neighborhoods or dialing back your consumption. The term "racing to the bottom" does not generally apply to those holding appreciating assets.
Delete9:10 let me share a facts. Encinitas has a $43 million unfunded road liabilities
Delete.lies. That means the council has allowed our roads to go to shit while they increased salariesAries and pensions. To build the hall aprkpark the council over paid for the land, told the public they had the money, then went and raided 17 capital projects of $7M and went another $8 million in debt to build the park. They awarded the contract to a contractor who did not have the right certifications at the time of the award resulting in haz waste run off ruining wetlands and the city being fined. With no money to replace the $7 million Barth Gaspar and Muir looted from the 17 fully funded projects the council now NEEDS to raise fees and taxes on residents to pay for their mis-management and malfeasance.
9:19, why do you suggest that those who own property sit back and let the City degrade it through high density, a so-called community park set in a residential neighborhood, turning Downtown into an endless October Fest, and pretty much every other policy that comes out of our city? Someone suggests that Lynn, who is a long time Encinitas resident, sell her house and move to Oceanside, and that the rest of us just let the city cash out our property values through placing horrible projects all over town meant to sap value from current owners in a split between developers and the city.
DeleteWhat a small price to pay to make sure that a few fat cat developers projects are able to "pencil out," and so that pension hogs can keep the money flowing under the pretense that they are providing great "customer service." My experience, and the experience of many other people I know is that on our days off, we have to go down to the city and correct the work that the 6-figure professionals have published that is riddled with elementary school-level mistakes. How is it that citizens who are not experts in the these fields have to go down and correct the work of the people who we pay? We have 3 city managers and many department directors that Gus calls his cabinet. Why do we have to do their jobs when these issues should be addressed by managers?
We also hear on this website about the “28 obstructionists” who are the cause of all problems in Encinitas. If true, how is it that 240 full-time, paid employees are at the mercy of 28 citizens who are volunteers and participate in city affairs on their days off? It looks to me like the $30,000,000 that we are paying in yearly pay and benefits (based on the average pay and benefits for 240 full-time employees mentioned above) is NOT a good value for the level of service that we get in return!
I have never once asked for a city of Encinitas employee to come in on their day off and do my job for me. I have know many, many citizens who have spent thousands of hours and considerable money out of pocket to correct city employees’ work.
As you may guess, I am not in favor of anyone at the city getting a raise this year.
8:15, you have some valid points. I was the one who made the suggestion to Lynn, but it was in response to her suggesting that city workers just move if they can't afford their houses after a pay cut.
DeleteThe point at which people start trying to make those kind of sweeping generalizations in what is the worst economy in a long time to me is disturbing.
I would be ok with a hiring freeze, I think that's a good place to start. And as per Lisa's comment in her blog, we've got to look at the road funding and get that back on track.
And I totally agree with you, the service/quality at city hall needs to be upgraded, big time. And I'm one of the guys who for years has tried to limit crappy projects like the ones on Hermes and the one behind La Especial Norte.
I'm with you 100%, no raises this year at the city, and the pensions have to be put at a sustainable level.
Correcting some of the bad attitudes and skill levels at city hall will take longer, because in this bad economy, nobody is leaving their job.
That natural turnover that would normally happen, isn't probably going to happen the next 10 years...
The graph that shows what Encinitas workers make in various industries is from a report prepared by Encinitas staff memebers to show the need for low income housing. Interestingly, they left their own wages of the chart since we have over 200 employees that we are paying an average of six figures in a city that they claim 20,000 people in 20 other industries outside of City Government get paid an average of $31,000 per years. Gosh, it makes you wonder why they left their own wages out of the chart and why they like to cry poor every time we see them!
ReplyDeleteWell Loser Leucadian care to respond???
DeleteYeah, but those are people who work in Encinitas, not the people who live here. And the reality is, a lot of people can't afford to live here...
DeleteLL, Anon 7:24, most city workers do not live in Encinitas either, so what is your point?
DeleteThe chart above is an inventory of what 20,000 workers from 20 industries earned in Encinitas and seems to indicate that this is a projection for years 2010-2015. This chart was created by City of Encinitas employees, yet they left out their own job class of City Government jobs. Why would they not include this classification and over 200 people who hold these positions?
They included Transportation and Warehousing with 90 jobs and they included Management of Companies and Enterprises with 35 jobs. Why would they exclude themselves from this analysis except that we have to pay them, and they don’t want us to know how much that is.
government workers at encinitas do not make six figures, period. I would say employees that are upper management certainly do - but most city workers (75%) are probably in the $65,000 to 85,000 range. check out the median next time.
Delete8:27,
DeleteWRONG!!!
Check out the median yourself. It's in the spreadsheet. Median is $85000 plus $32000 in benefits. No, 75% of city workers are not in the $65K to $85K range.
And that was in 2012 before the latest pay raises.
WCV
I continue to feel that asking those making over $100,000 per year to take a 20% pay cut down to $100K is reasonable. The jobs will quickly be filled by other applicants, should any of the current job holders decide they can do better elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteThat is not cherry picking, to me. I don't think anyone working for the City should make over the reduced amounts, anyway.
In fact, we could get a new majority on Council to let Vina go, if possible, or adjust his salary down to $150,000K, same for his replacement.
Cry me a river about his expenses. He can learn to live more frugally, within lower means, as we have.
As taxpayers, we shouldn't have to buy into job inflation. We don't always have to pattern our city on what nearby cities pay, either. That is the coercion of peer pressure. We can think for ourselves. Be more creative.
We don't always have to pattern our city on what other cities ..... But we do. We didn't need a library but we built one anyway. But only after Carlsbad built theirs. Kinda like penis envy but with a library.
DeleteSounds like someone needs to reserve a Freud book at the Encinitas library....
DeleteHow about we cut your Social Security Lynn, or your disability? initially, worker pensions were higher to make up for the lower pay. Now with stagnating wages in the private sector, public wages are higher.
DeleteTo me that's one of the real issues, and yes, I'm still for cutting pensions due to unsustainability. The numbers simply have to add up.
But let's not pretend like the rest of us aren't getting squeezed by the chase for profits by corporate America....
And I'll keep asking the question, if they axe Vina, what makes you so sure his replacement won't be just as bad?
I don't get disability. I never have. If you don't stop posting that i do, you will be liable. This is my final demand to cease and desist with your attempts to defame me through lies.
DeleteRetirement Social Security is miniscule compared to what City workers are getting in retirement pay. I did NOT suggest that people just move away if they can't afford to live here. I said that is something that could be considered, just as the private sector has to consider it. You are intentionally misreading my comments. My feeling is, that with fiscal responsibility, a worker making $100K annually, plus benefits, should be able to afford to live in Encinitas. If not, he or she can consider the alternatives, just as everyone in the private sector must.
Sorry, I don't agree with the 20% cut, a hiring freeze yes. Do I have the right as a taxpayer to call for a cut on someone's salary? I don't think so.
DeleteI just think it's a slippery slope when you call for unilateral cuts to something that is probably a negotiated salary. Pensions have to be cut, that's simple math. That has to add up. In the future, I think gov. pay does have to come down. But in this REALLY bad economy where anyone over 40 is going to struggle to get a job, I'm not going to call for a unilateral reduction of anyone's pay, it's way more complicated than that.
BTW, that wasn't me on the disability comment.
And as for the moving concept, I know what you're saying, but it's not that easy in real life. Many people at SAIC told me that about Orlando "You can fly in to SD for the weekend". My mom is 87, and although I don't own property, I am not moving out of state to work, my obligations are here.
This is the new reality for those of us who work, and that's not meant as a slam. Everyone got shoved down during the recession. College kids struggle to find a job because other people got shoved down in their slot. Older workers like me (late 40's) struggle to get the job they just had because we're now too old.
This is all a reality, I and others like me are living it. That feeds into the discussion with city hall, people have a good living there and they're not leaving, there's no where to go.
So let's have some compassion, that's what I'm saying. A hiring freeze seems fair, with new, reasonable pay scales to be worked on.
And as for degrees, it cuts both ways, some people need one, some don't...
9:20
ReplyDeleteYou and your book worm scenario.
The only way to get reform is by initiative - do you really think anyone of these bureaucrats will voluntarily cut their own wages??? The sky will darken with passenger pigeons before that occurs. This is the era of greed and cover-up - Encinitas is in deep trouble. Cut pensions and wages by voter mandated reform and if these people don't like it, they can find a new host to parasitize. Unlikely you'd see an exodus.....
ReplyDeleteRight, but you better write the initiative the correct way, or you end up with prop 13, which gutted a lot of school funding and took control away from the local level.
DeleteThere have been plenty of other bad one's since, but that's the biggest and best example. Many initiatives in CA have been ruled invalid by the courts, which means we just wasted a lot of time and money.
Could we even cut wages by initiative? I'm sure that would be challenged in court...
Prop 13 gutted school funding??? Horse... Shit!!!
DeleteCalifornia schools receive more finding than any other state.
California schools WASTE more money than most 3rd world countries spend. You can double funding, triple funding...50% of students in the LAUSD will drop out. Underfunded my ass!!
Go to you local school, walk around in the early evening, see the classrooms with all the lights on, see the computers booted up. Note all the books tossed in the trash. Last time I checked 2+2=4. But we need new text books every year??? Horse .....shit!!! Go to the maintenance area of these schools, see the perfectly fine desks tossed in the trash, or how about the extreme use of water for the lawns. It all adds up to WASTE. Idiots, and more idiots that get suckered by the Prop 13 is evil argument.
I'm talking the 1970's chief, all the music programs went away, I was there. Any kind of extra curricular activity went away.
DeleteI'm not saying there's not waste, and for the record LAUSD has been a disaster the last 50 years. They need to split that thing up. It's the poster boy for bad public schools. That's a separate issue.
The main thing with prop 13 is it was poorly written, and too much control was taken from local control for the schools. Even proponents like Jerry Brown will tell you that. That's the weakness of the initiative process.
As for current waste, waste is waste, and Encinitas schools of 2014 are not Pasadena schools of 1978. We're talking apples and oranges.
As far as I'm concerned, turn off the computers, shut off the lights and don't water the lawns...
Nope, all lies. I was in school then, we didn't lose the band, nor the sports teams, nor the field trips. You speak all lies, the same lies our teachers told us would happen if our parents voted for 13.
DeleteBut not to worry the cal st teacher union is saving up to overturn 13 via the initiative process. Then property taxes will double or triple and you , yes YOU will have to sell your house. Ha!! Hundreds of thousands of homes for sale in Calilandia all because homeowners can't pay the tax. But be proud, all these great Californians will go to other states and be powerful positive forces. And for that you can be proud. But don't be proud of the lies.... All lies.
What school did you go to in what district? In Pasadena, we lost all our music programs in 6th grade, in Junior and Senior high sports were lost. A lot of stuff was lost as a result of the changes the legislature made AFTER prop 13, if not as a direct result of the law.
DeleteIt was due to prop. 13, mr. or mrs. denier. It happened.
Prop. 13 will never be overturned, no politician will go near that thing, that's why it's called the Third Rail. They don't have to. As prop 13 people pass away, the taxes go up, because new purchasers or inheritors don't get that break. Original holders move with the exception one time.
At the very least, they need to update the definition of a purchase for commercial owners so people pay when a property changes hands:
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/05/news/la-ol-proposition-13-taxes-20130805
And I don't have a house chief, I'm not a millionaire and can't afford one in Encinitas. Either way, if I buy a house, I don't get the benefits of prop. 13. I'm 48, Prop 13 is for the Boomer class and up, the same people who have screwed people my age every step of the way
Oh boo hoo. ( sniff, sniff). I feel sorry for you, clearly you are a victim....
DeleteVina now starring as 'THE TICK' !
ReplyDeleteMuir as Pillsbury Pension Porker!
DeleteI am not asking for an across the board cut of 20%. I am asking for a hiring freeze and a 20% cut for those employees making over $100K annually, down to $100,00. In other words, if someone were making $101,000 per year, he or she wouldn't have to take a 20% cut, but would only have his or her wages cut by $1,000, for the year.
ReplyDeleteTaxpayers can ask for pay cuts. This is supposed to be a government by and FOR the people, not by and for overpaid administrators AND contractors.
Salaries are currently being negotiated in closed session. Who represents the taxpayers? The new head of Human Resources. Although executive officers (defined as non-represented employees, such as heads of departments) are NOT represented by a labor union lawyer, through the SEIU, their wages and benefits are tied to what represented employees make. Therefore, there is NO ONE who is neutral and objective, for labor negotiations, except, on rare occasions, Council.
It is inappropriate for the budget item which includes operating expenses, including salaries and classifications of various departments, title of employees, or the need to hire more employees to be on the Consent Calendar, PARTICULAR:Y when Glenn Sabine said he would get back to Council with my question about reducing the pay of $100,000K plus employees by 20%, down to $100K.
Of course that can be done. There IS no current contract for the represented employees. They can continue working without a contract, or they can leave. The money that has been put in for their pensions, already, including unfunded liabilities is protected, but we can NOW change the contracts of existing employees, I think. Employment contracts can be changed. Employees have the option of seeking employment elsewhere.
For one thing, we could stipulate that from this point forward, pension benefits would be determined by the average rate of pay, not only "second tier employees- new hires, who are now paid 2% of the average of their last three years with respect to their pensions, not 2.7% of their highest rate of pay. For years already worked, we can't change the contract, but it seems we should be able to do so for future years, even with respect to pre-existing employees.
Yawn....
DeleteTeresa has asked for a Director of Sustainability: that means another $100 and that person will begin taking things away from others so those who do not produce can be sustained.
DeleteWould you want your salary discussed in public? I wouldn't. There's such a thing as a right to privacy.
DeleteA hiring and a pay freeze seem like a good start, with pension reform to follow.
If I were a PUBLIC employee, being paid out of taxpayers' taxes and fees, I would EXPECT my salary to be publicly discussed. It should be discussed by the public because they are providing my paycheck, and it is the public who I am to serve.
DeleteGo watch Sesame Street if your attention span is so limited 6:48. I was responding to other comments. You love to see your trolling comments on screen don't you.
DeleteEgoist!
Right, but you're not a public employee, and your projecting your desire to know everyone's pay onto the situation.
DeleteTrust me, having worked at a public agency in this county, it's pretty uncool when you're trying to do your job, work hard and earn a living when someone in the press is trying to "uncover the dirt".
I'm not saying there wasn't dirt to be uncovered, but the people in the press don't care if your name gets tossed around when you have nothing to do with some alleged wrongdoing.
It's the old "Take a walk in my shoes" scenario. Things have changed a lot in the last 10-15 years, if you haven't been working. It's a brutal new world out there...
The Court, in California, has ruled that public employees have a lower threshold of privacy than private sector employees.
DeleteLabor negotiations can be discussed in closed session. They don't have to be. Same for evaluations of executive officers. They don't have to be done behind closed doors, according to the Court.
The Court ruled that if public agency employees wanted a greater lever of confidentiality of their records, they could work in the private sector, instead.
@06:09, In consideration of your last statement, from now on I'm going to make absolutely sure my financial advisor doesn't happen have the initials WCV.
ReplyDeleteAre you serious?
Serious as a heart attack.
DeleteIf you actually believe that the former is financially preferable to the latter, I'd suggest it's you who needs a remedial finance class.
WCV
Is that you, Jennifer Smith?
DeleteWCV
WCV @ 5:07
DeleteIf you actually believe that those are the only two available financial options for that amount of money over that period of time, you should consider keeping the defibrillator paddles nearby, and hiring someone who actually understands finance to manage your money.
Now you're just making stuff up.
DeleteNo one is talking about financial options.
The original misconception was that owing a lot of money spread over time was by definition better than owing a lot of money at a single point in the future.
If you're having this much trouble following along, you might want to stop reading this thread.
WCV
5:39, we were talking about financial strategies for dealing with long term debt. In the real world the options are very rarely limited to (1.) pay it all off now or (2) spread it out in equal payments over the borrowing period. Interest rates, investment instrument availability and the influence of government policies change the calculus for maximizing the returns from borrowed money.
Delete6:27,
DeleteWe were not talking about financial strategies for dealing with long term debt. We were pointing out the fallacy of 9:45's (your?) comment.
When you're in a hole, stop digging.
If you want to start a new discussion of financial strategies for dealing with long term debt, that would be most welcome. The bobbleheads down at City Hall could use such a discussion.
WCV
Thanks, WC, for your 6:09 comment. I appreciate your understanding of logic and your ability to stay on point. And of course, we are fortunate you provide this forum for discussion.
DeleteAlso, I agree with you on your 6:09 comment. And it would be good for us to have, and for Council to have a discussion of financial strategies for dealing with long term debt. That's what "strategic planning" should be about, not sweeping the issue under the rug, and delaying any discussion of it or implementation of actual plans to reduce the debt, in particular, unfunded pension liabilities, while Council and Cabinet go merrily along their way with their over-produced, phantasmagoric productions, designed to limit public comment and maximize opportunities for posturing and pretense.
https://thecoastnews.com/2013/04/unfunded-pension-liability-pegged-at-39m/
ReplyDeleteRight, I get that the state said the threshold of privacy is lower, in fact I lived it. All your emails are subject to being part of a public records request.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am saying is I can't blame employees for not wanting all their salaries made the public's business. Believe, me you won't win the battle to have a taxpayer rep in the room on employee negotiations without a fight.
In fact, I'd be willing to wager there's no city in CA. that allows a public representative to be party to that kind of negotiation...
Maybe you could send your question to Terry Francke at Calaware.org?
DeleteThere is precedent where employee evaluations were done publicly, or part of the evaluations. I don't know if that's what you call "negotiations," but there is no law preventing that, either.
The public is paying for public employees' salaries. I can't blame the public for wanting to be part of the decision making process.
Well, I don't really have a question. We disagree on this one, that's ok.
DeleteI see a line here between employee privacy and the public's right to know, and you don't.
We need a hiring freeze at city hall, I think we can agree on that. No more positions like Communications Director.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/19/us-usa-pensions-calpers-idUSBREA1I08120140219
ReplyDeleteAnd still not comment from Loser Leucadian defending his outrageous pay and pension.
ReplyDelete( has vina put a choke hold on comments from city staff ??)
If you're commenting from work, you shouldn't be. Do you know a.) who loser Leucadian is and b.) what his/her pay and pension is? Otherwise, why mention it....
ReplyDeleteI say we should put a freeze on hiring for now, and look into how raises/evaluations are done...
I say city council adopt an ordinance that provides 2% at 62 Calpers option for all employees. Its legal and needs to be done.
ReplyDeletefor the employees that were employed between 2005 and today, they get to keep that windfall increase in pension payments and benefits for that time period, but we must re-establish a sustainable pension program for our City.
If Council doesn't act on this this year, I will be voting out all incumbents.
Council's two top priorities.
1. Fire Vina
2. Adopt an ordinance for 2% at 62 for all City Employees.
Uh... time for career change?! I wonder what the correlation is between Encinitas and other wages compares with the national average (across multiple cities) and income?
ReplyDelete