Wherein Traffic and Public Safety Commissioner Al Rodbell is ordered not to use his title when expressing his opinion.
We're pretty sure nobody confused Al Rodbell's opinion on Peak Democracy for an official Traffic and Safety Commission statement.
Achtung!
We wonder if Vina has similarly ordered Teresa Barth and Lisa Shaffer not to use their Council Member titles in their newsletters, which are -- shockingly -- not official statements of city policy.
It is not appropriate to use a title of commissioner when offering a personal opinion that is not the opinion of the commission.
ReplyDeleteYour effort to compare this to Barth and Schaffer does not make sense.
Please explain.
DeleteWhat's the difference? Neither Commissioner nor Council Member implies that one is speaking on behalf of the entire Commission or Council.
The two are exactly equivalent.
The difference is Council members are elected officials with decision authority over a wide variety of topics. Their newsletters are useful communications of their thinking on policy matters that may come before the Council. As citizens, we should appreciate the window into the thought processes of those making decisions affecting our lives, even if we disagree.
DeleteAl, on the other hand, was expressing an opinion on matters not related to Traffic and Public Safety in any way. The use of the title in this context serves no purpose other than to inflate his ego, or confuse the reader. Al could have listed his birthdate, degrees, or zodiac sign--all would have been as relevant to the subject.
Plenty to bash Gus about. Let's not dilute the power a criticism by applying it indiscriminately.
Shaffer and Barth's newsletters are much less news than attempts to influence perception and control the story. When Teresa started her newsletter, it actually was informative and had a balanced selection of articles. Not so any more.
Delete8:00 AM
DeleteOn the contrary, Al was expressing an opinion matters that are related to Traffic and Public Safety.
7:17 am and 8:00 am
DeletePoppycock! Rodbell was appointed by the council with a vote. He has the right to use his title as long as he speaks or writes as an individual. I think he knows that. Vina said it was "inappropriate." It's Vina trying to exercise control of free expression.
I have been in many situation with council members, especially Barth and Shaffer, when they have used their title and the situation didn't have anything directly to do with city business. The difference is that Rodbell challenged Vina and Barth and Shaffer haven't
10:48 AM
Delete"I think he [Rodbell] knows that"
Then why didn't he make it clear in his email that he wasn't representing the commission?
You want it both ways and any excuse to attack Vina. Rodbell's email, as written without any disclaimer, was inappropriate.
Maybe Al can answer this one: Councilwoman Lisa Shaffer has demanded that Staff reduce the speed limit on Quail Gardens Drive to 25 mph: because on occasion, there will be children on the public gardens site: oh, and it will reduce the speed limit in front of the councilwoman's home/neighborhood.
DeleteAside from dropping a speed limit being illegal in the state of California, how many students are going to walk down Westlake Avenue or Encinitas Blvd. to the gardens? Probably none.
More disturbing, Shaffer doesn't think its necessary to go through the Public Safety commission like everyone else, she's always willing to violate a state law if she can get away with it. Ethics?
1:40,
DeleteSome public speakers asked for Quail Gardens calming back in December. What's the status now? Where and when did Lisa demand this of staff?
I think it's analogous that Al Rodbell can use his title of Commissioner in a letter expressing his personal concerns about city business, just as Councilmember Lisa Shaffer uses her title on her Facebook page, and on her newsletter.
DeleteIt doesn't matter that Shaffer has been elected, and Rodbell was appointed by Council. Both are public officials, and can use the title of their office in their communications, as long as they don't use City monies to disseminate their personal opinions.
Look what happened with Roderick Wright, the convicted State Senator who wrote a letter to the City of Encinitas, threatening litigation, which letter caused Planning staff to cowardly change policy and wrongly round up, instead of rounding down, base density bonus calculations.
No one heard anything out City Manager Gus Vina when that threatening letter was again brought up by Jeff Murphy in defense of the city's changed policy of rounding up base density bonus calculations.
No one on staff was complaining about that infamous State Senator using his office to improperly influence Encinitas public officials.
Commissioners are representatives of Encinitas residents. Vina has layer upon layer of people in different groups that he presses down upon like a 3rd world dictator. His entire Strategic Plan was to inflict his personal view on everyone as a team building exercise. The council and commissioners are supposed to be on the same team as the citizens. Vote Vina off the island!
ReplyDeleteSorry but no they're not. Most run for personal goals and issues or for political ladder climbing, some go on to run for office.
Delete7:30 said that they are supposed to represent citizens. There are actual commissioners and council members who want to have a position to serve--not to use as a stepping stone.
DeleteShaffer in her most recent newsletter states all the council agreed they need to use the commissions more, the same commissions that the council ignores... ie planning commission recommended no vote on DR, ignored by the council.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't Mr. Rodbell grow some Rodballs and tell the generalissimo to stick it.
ReplyDeleteMore smear and less intellect,it must be a slow news day on fox news west.We have many challenges in the city ,this is not one on of them.
ReplyDeleteGreat point about Lisa and Teresa's newsletters. Technically, they're Vina's boss, so I doubt he'll be barking up that tree.
ReplyDelete-MGJ
Elected officials will always be a grey area. Technically, no one council member represents the city, only the full council unless granted that right by the council. An example of this grey area was the State of the City speeches. Barth represented the policies of the city council which were adopted by a 3-2 vote. Gaspar represented her personal policy as she was on the losing end of that vote. But politics and policy are intertwined so it gets messy. However, all commissions are subordinate to the city council and are supposed to be free of politics.
DeleteBy identifying himself solely as "Commissioner of Encinitas Traffic and Public Safety" implies some official endorsement whether or not that was his intent. If anything, he should have made clear that he was speaking strictly as a private citizen and not representing the views of the commission or the city. The views of any commission are represented by actions of the commission as a whole not by individual commissioners.
ReplyDeleteMy personal sense is that Rodbell identified himself that way to give himself some legitimacy to his intended readers but not to represent the entire commission. While I don't think he should have done that, at the very least he should have included a disclaimer. As someone who has accused the council of failing to be forthright, he should have know better.
To attack Vina for pointing this out is wrong. But of course, since it's Vina, it's okay to attack him by definition because he can never do anything right.
Al Rodbell criticized Vina's pet toy Peak Democracy. So far, there has been two questions on Peak Democracy that relate to the Public Safety and Traffic Commission. Vina missed that point.
ReplyDeleteGood point.
DeleteSoliciting feedback from the public on issues that relate to traffic and safety would seem to be within the scope of the role of commissioner.
But aside from that, notice that Vina didn't even respond to any of the substance of Rodbell's letter.
Still smells of petty assertion of authority to me.
The two Peak Democracy Topics have been on whether to reduce dog park hours and what kind of art you like.
Delete10:19 AM
DeleteNo, it's not the role of a single commissioner to freelance like that. A commissioner has the ability, of course, to solicit people's opinions when talking to them. If Rodbell wants the T & PS Commission to do a survey then by all means bring it up at a commission meeting and get the commission to endorse it. If the commission declines then that's the end of it. If anything, Rodbell is potentially undermining any use of Peak Democracy by the T & PS Commission by calling into question its legitimacy. Maybe that was his purpose.
Also, what do questions about dog park hours and public art have to do with public safety and traffic except by the thinnest of extension?
I smell more that because you agree with Rodbell you're inclined to forgive his methods which you would be loudly complaining about if it were the other side. Just a case of situational ethics.
I sincerely doubt there is anything in the city code banning commissioners from communicating with the public by e-mail.
DeleteThe remedy for this is the removal of the commissioner.
DeleteCommissioners serve at the pleasure of the council. If they don't like the way he's doing his job, they can remove him.
Oh I see. It has to be in the city code.
DeleteA commissioner doesn't lose their right to act as a private citizen but they don't individually have the right to act for the commission unless specifically granted that right by the full commission. Unless I missed it, The T & PS Commission didn't grant that right to Rodbell. The mistake Rodbell made was not making it clear in his email that he was acting strictly as a private citizen and not representing the full commission. To the casual reader of his email it would appear that it had some official status which it did not.
But as I said, your position on this smacks of situational ethics. You would be hammering the other side if they did it.
EU @ 11:00 said "I sincerely doubt there is anything in the city code banning commissioners from communicating with the public by e-mail."
DeleteEU, congratulations. You have successfully created and then vanquished a silly straw-man argument that no one ever made.
I used to think you were a pretty rational and thoughtful person. Your activity these last 24 hours have undermined that view.
So if it's not a written rule, what is it? Tradition? Custom?
DeleteWhat business would Vina have lecturing a commissioner on custom?
Vina is ALL about the muzzle.
DeleteEU,
DeleteYour interpretation of Vina's note is that Al isn't allowed to use email? You're sticking with that?
No. I was responding to 10:52's
DeleteNo, it's not the role of a single commissioner to freelance like that. A commissioner has the ability, of course, to solicit people's opinions when talking to them.
This seemed to be suggesting that it was OK for commissioners to talk with the public, but not e-mail them as Rodbell did.
Al last week: 'I pulled papers for Mayor, but decided it's too hard.'
ReplyDeleteAl this week: 'Gus, you are violating the Brown Act, but doing anything about it is too hard.'
Great lesson for the kids, Al. Why not just continue whining; that's easy.
If ever there was someone in love with the sound of his own voice, it's Al.
We need to get Al one of those dictator uniforms with a silly hat, tons of gold frill, and 15 lbs of shiny medals. All rise--the Traffic and Public Safety Commissioner has arrived.
Al was the only one who opened his yap in opposition to Peter Kohl's commission gag order. The others, including Blakespear, sat silent until Al spoke and then jumped in with a me-too vote (behavioral hallmark of Blakespear, she'll never be a leader).
DeleteRodbell may be verbose, but he is anything but lazy.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
ReplyDeleteno...Aristotle is not an Anon Moniker - it's the real deal.....
- The Sculpin
11:13 AM
ReplyDeleteVina doesn't appoint the commissioners. Vina doesn't have the authority to chastise the commissioners. Vina was way out of line.
I guess then that Vina shouldn't have walked in and told the T & PS Commission Chair Peter Kohl to allow public speakers a few meetings back. Vina was not way out of line to point out to Rodbell that he should make it clear that he is not representing the commission.
DeleteTempest in a teapot on the whole. Vina could have handled it better, so could Al. Move on until we know all the candidates for council and mayor....
DeleteVina corrected Kohl because no one else was around - it would hardly have been expedient to try rounding up how many Council members? to get Kohl under control - although per Kohl, it was Vina who issued the gag order in the first place.
Delete11:55 AM
Delete"Tempest in a teapot" I wholeheartedly agree.
"Vina could have handled it better" how so? Vina's email appears to be pretty innocuous. Vina isn't saying not to express private opinions, just not under the guise of the T & PS Commission.
According to Rodbell here is the complete text of Vina's email:
Mr. Rodbell
I wanted to bring to your attention that the use of the title “Commissioner of Encinitas Traffic and Public Safety” when providing your personal opinion on a subject is inappropriate, specifically as used below on a subject matter that is not related to the Public Safety and Traffic Commission.
Additionally, if there is an appropriate message/response/information that is to come from the commission, it requires that the majority of the commission approve such dissemination of information. If you require any additional information please feel free to contact the chair of the commission or Kathy Hollywood our City Clerk
Thank you for your attention to this matter
Tell him verbally. Once you put it in writing in an email, it's subject to public review. I personally don't care about the issue, it's an interpersonal squabble.
DeleteI'm not here to weigh in on Al Rodbell, he obviously is involved with the city, and I applaud that. Other than that, I'm not sure this is all worth the fight for Al unless he's going to run for council...
3:59 PM
DeleteIt was Rodbell who posted it on his blog. Otherwise, who besides him and the city manager would have known about it.
And it was this blog that tried to hijack this non issue.
Or have you forgotten the "Achtung!" in the intro.
11:35 AM
ReplyDeleteKohl told the public that VINA told him before the commission meeting started "no speakers" on the subject. Kohl ratted out Vina then tried to make himself out as a rogue saying Vina didn't say that. Vina knew he was caught.
That's why Vina told Kohl something different in public.
Al frequently speaks at council meetings on Pacific View and Peak Democracy. He always identifies himself with his name and neighborhood--never his title.
ReplyDeleteQuestion for Al: why the inconsistency? If the use of the title is appropriate in one context, but not the other, explain why.
To me, it sounds inappropriate, irrelevant and pompous in both situations, but I'd like to hear from Al.
While I've been critical of Al's email, in his defense, when you speak at a council meeting you're only asked for your name and address which most speakers give as their community. Anyway, since Al is technically addressing the council, they know he is on the commission. I don't see any inconsistency.
DeleteCouncil is to blame for Encinitas having such a Fk'ed up city manager.
ReplyDeleteOur city council could and should address the issue by firing the loser.
Catherine Blakespear identified herself as a Traffic Commissioner at the Encinitas Union School District meeting about Pacific View School March 11 2014.I wonder if she got "the letter".
ReplyDeleteWith Shaffer and Barth backing her, I don't wonder ;)
DeleteDepending on how she presented it, she might need a letter.
DeleteI have a suggestion. Why doesn't the city manager (or city clerk) send a letter to all commissioners reminding them not to present themselves in person or print in a way that might imply they are acting officially unless they have been given that authority by their full commission.
There is nothing wrong with letting people know you serve on a commission as long as you also state that what you say is your own personal opinion and does not represent the commission or the city.
And "in print" includes email, web, blogs, twitter, etc.
Interesting comments.
ReplyDeleteI acknowledged to Mr. Vina in my first sentence that he had a point, that I should have described my identity as "member of the Traffic and Public Safety Commission." Yet, from his text this would not have satisfied his objections. While I did have compunctions about that final tag, I did it somewhat to be confrontational, to assert that I was not a member of the staff but someone holding a position that was appointed by and with continued membership at the pleasure of the council.
Mr Vina had no desire to convey his "opinion" as a colleague on this grey area, but to instruct. Upon discussion with Kathy Hollywood, the restriction is on saying something that could be construed as emanating from the body of the commission, not identifying membership per se. It happens to be a grey area, which I acknowledged.
I took the occasion of his not unreasonable comment to make a larger point, of his many serious unethical and sleazy action that cause such antagonism from staff and public. It was an opening and I took it. I challenged him, and still do, to correct me on any errors that I may have made in my many accusations.
Those interested should spend a few hours at a commission meeting, or view my video of a discussion on FocusOnEncinitas.blogspot.com on the commission rejecting my proposal that we actually become more than a Traffic Commission-- which we have not. The title is "Public Safety grafted to Traffic Commission- 4 month report"
So you knew you were playing with fire. I have to admit you just lost any sympathy I had for you in this.
DeleteAnd you're good, 5:35, with Vina not responding to any of Rodbell's questions ? I'm less worried about Rodbell using his title and "playing with fire" than I am Vina's many machinations.
DeleteAppreciate the honest explanation.
DeletePersonally, I don't think you were in the right, but it shows character to show up without getting defensive.
So the question isn't the method used, just whose side are you on. Come on down and play situational ethics now being taught by Prof. Rodbell. And you call the council sleazy.
DeleteI too am more concerned with Gus Vina's machinations and Vina's refusing to answer or discuss the subject of Al Rodbell's letters, e-mails and oral communications.
DeleteApparently, Vina puts form before content, which is contrary to the Maxims of Jurisprudence; but more importantly, reeks of Vina's situational ethics, not Rodbell's.
Al Rodbell could have better stated that he didn't represent the entire Commission's opinion, but the fact that he didn't isn't unusual for public officials, including when Kranz, Shaffer and Barth express their opinions in newsletters and/or on Facebook.
7:39 seems like the sleazy one, to me. At least Al Rodbell has the courage to claim his opinions and stand up to the City Manager, calling him out for his lack of integrity.
"...that I should have described my identity as "member of the Traffic and Public Safety Commission."
Delete... And should have added that these are my opinions and do not represent the position of the traffic commission.
Thanks Al for addressing this tempest in a teapot non issue excepting our cm, or rather our councils cm.. He surely is not our cm. Wake up council and fire this loser of a manager. We have been calling for this for at least two years now. You have begun to listen us and we are thankful. Now finally hear us about gus and do the right thing.
ReplyDeleteThe worst thing Teresa Barth ever did was fully support the loser Vina following $tock$ removal. Barth, Shaffer and Dalakranz totally blew it. I hope the next City Council is smarter.
ReplyDeleteBarth isn't very bright. Vina obviously intimidated or cajoled her into some complacency - Barth doesn't want to upset the ruling minority in City Hall.
ReplyDeleteShe can't leave office soon enough.
Agreed. What a disappointment and a bad two years.
ReplyDeleteAn arts commissioner comments on Peak Democracy on the latest question -
ReplyDeletedeanne sabeck inside OLD ENCINITAS
July 29, 2014, 12:45 PM
1. Click on your favorite example
o Sculpture: A three-dimensional artwork, which can be a figurative or abstract in form. Here's an example:
2. Would you like to provide additional feedback regarding potential public art in Encinitas?
,I do not find this "pick from one of these examples" helpful in any way to achieving a public art policy in Encinitas. As an arts commissioner, I think it would be much more engaging to ask the public how they would like art integrated into the community. In other words, permanent installations in buildings, parks, roadways, walking trails? Revolving temporary installations along 101? Revolving temporary installations at other locations, schools, government buildings public parks? These questions are meaningful in getting a handle on where to put $ and energy. As far as identifying types of public art, all of these have validity and one should not be chosen over another in my opinion.
Excellent point, but will she be reprimanded for identifying herself as an arts commissioner without explicitly stating that her opinion doesn't represent the entire commission?
DeleteIf we want to be consistent, yes a disclaimer needs to be added.
DeleteIt's hard to tell whether Sabeck wrote the whole thing or it's just her comment in the last paragraph. Her "As an arts commissioner" does give it a sense of personal opinion especially as she concludes with "in my opinion".
But to be clear if you identify yourself as a commissioner it should be immediately followed with a disclaimer that the following opinions are your own and not that of the commission. The city clerk should just provide all commissioners with boiler plate text to use.
It's that simple.
That's going to an extreme, 1:46. It can only be a suggestion, not a mandate. People in Encinitas are smart enough to understand that every politician, and every commissioner is going to have his or her individual opinions.
DeleteOnly when they state they are speaking for the entire Commission on which they serve, should they be required to make clear that there was public discussion and consensus among the commissioners, that allows them to make the statements. Otherwise, common sense would require us to assume the reverse, they are only sharing their own perceptions and opinions.
I answered the art survey, too, and I also stated that I liked all the different forms. Why should it be a competition? I suggested that art along North 101 would be welcome!
Vina is just being a jerk to Rodbell. Notice the city manager doesn't address any of Rodbell's concerns? He's too busy making sure insisting that Rodbell must, "respect my authority!"
Why can't residents say no to public art using the Peak Democracy program.
ReplyDeleteYou can do that but the best way would be to connect a 3/4 steel cable to your bumper the other end to the art and then pull it down.
DeleteThat's Geek Democracy.
Delete10:41, Now there's an idea to get 3 people's IP addresses!
DeletePut another question on PM - Do you want your tax money to pay for public art instead of repairing the roads?
ReplyDelete