U-T:
Welty’s identity has been used to cast 14 votes since her death.Mmm-hmmm.
A 15th vote was also cast in her name, in the 2004 presidential primary. County records show it was sent in but never certified — raising the possibility that the vote was invalidated, but her registration was not then revoked.
Welty’s address of record is an Encinitas home where her mother still lives. Dolores Welty told the U-T that the county still sends mail for Dara to the house. Earlier this year, Dara Welty received a jury summons.
Dolores Welty, a retired teacher, is also a registered Democrat and a frequent voter. In every election in which a ballot was cast for her daughter, she also voted.
Dolores Welty has voted in all but two elections she was eligible for since 1990, the 1998 gubernatorial primary and a 1999 special election on library funding. No votes were cast for her daughter in those elections, either.
Campaign finance records from the Center for Responsive Politics show that the mother has donated more than $51,000 to Democratic causes, committees and candidates since 1992.
Asked if she had ever sent in absentee ballots on her daughter’s behalf, Welty said she hadn’t.
Why didn't the living mother notify the registrar and stop the ballots? If she cast the ballots she belongs in jail.
ReplyDeleteIf WC means, time to start using corner cases to disenfranchise young and non-white voters, so that Republicans can delay the inevitable consequences if their short-sighted policies and demographic changes, then no.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that WC didn't include quotation marks, and didn't note that the story found equally fishy local voting in behalf of dead Republicans.
7:55 ah, do you think maybe becuase the person referenced is in Encinitas WCV wrote about that- and linked the whole article?
DeleteI think you might want to turn of whatever show of hate you are watching or paper you are reading-
The fact that all people of all colors of all political parties, of all secual identities, of all creeds are subject to voter fraud should be enough for all of us to want to True The Vote.
It looks like the ones opposed to True The Vote are the ones with something to hide
7;55- the only conspiracy in this post is that a dead woman voted 14 times. That should outrage you, offend you and piss you off. Apparently it does none of those.
DeleteNot as much as the voter disenfranchisement efforts in places like Florida in 2004 and 2008 and Ohio in 2008, where ex felons, blacks and other minorities were systematically targeted to be purged from voter roles.
DeleteNo matter what your political persuasion, I think we all know the U.S. is becoming more diverse, and what that means for those of you who don't like that word is we're a blacker, browner, gayer, younger nation, where ladies also have a big say. And right now, that nation is not voting Republican, which is skewing older, whiter, richer and more conservative.
Neither of the elections nationally the last two rounds were that close, but they were the two times before that. And I'm a guy who's voted for Ralph Nader twice and Gary Johnson the last time, lest you think that's an issue.
this is a free country, and I believe everyone should vote every time, and everyone should be given every opportunity to vote, whether remotely, online, whatever is feasible. What we should not allow is any attempt to restrict voting through ID's, long lines, lack of resources, questionable purging of voter roles or complicated registration processes.
Let's be honest, the Union is conservative, a mouthpiece for Poopy Doug Madchester. I don't care if they found 26 people over 18 years, it's not a story. I'm sure problems like this exist, but it's statistically irrelevant and quite frankly, they should be embarrassed for printing, and you should be embarrassed if you buy that line of horseshit...
-MGJ
That's okay, you can always vote Eric Holder's ballot since Dara is now "officially" dead as a doornail. Just google Eric Holder O'keefe for specific instructions and check the YouTube video.
ReplyDeleteSince there is an investigation in process, it is premature to comment on this situation. There are two sides to every story, and I would be interested in hearing the other side.
ReplyDeleteI think 7:55 gave us the other side: anyone concerned about election integrity is a racist.
Delete7:55 here.
DeleteGood point. There are no other alternatives, like prosecuting and making pubic examples of the few violators.
Sarcastic slow clap.
7:55
DeleteWow- I just watched that video clip of the guy voting for Eric Holder- that is frightening. Did you read about the people of all races, colors,creeds, politics and sexual indentities that support True The Vote?
Why do you oppose them?
9:37,
DeleteTurnabout is fair play. See Republican Second Amendment defense #1: we don't need new laws; enforce the existing laws.
10:44
Deletewhat is your point? Turn about? You might consider turning off the tv and thinking for yourself.
We should all be alarmed that our vote is not true. We should all be alarmed that dead people are voting, or that someone can go in and just say they are someone they are not and then be able to vote.
There is no turnabout with True The vote. It not about parties. People of all colors, all religions, all sexual identities, all genders support the effort to True the Vote- perhaps you should as well.
Where was your "alarm" when the supreme court stole the vote and annointed GWB.
Delete9:32- Again, you see the world thru your ideology, one party over another-
DeleteTrue the Vote is not about parties- it is about protecting the equality of the vote. Voter ID is not about political parties, it is about protecting the equality of each persons votes for all.
Which is a bigger question, electoral integrity or voter disenfranchisement. The answer is B.
DeleteDolores Welty not only lost her daughter while in another country, but she suffered horribly. If you were a friend of hers and watched her grief over the years,
ReplyDeleteand how she has overcome this terrible time of losing a child, you might think twice before passing any judgement on Delores. She is elderly. Give her a break. She has also given generously to the San Diego Botanical gardens. I thought it was a cheap shot to talk about her donation to the Dems. That has NOTHING to do with voter fraud, and I am offended by your insinuations on this blog.
I agree with 10:41. I am so sorry for any parent who has lost a child. That is a wound that never heals. I think that some of these comments are not only disrespectful to a woman in grief, but also to her daughter who apparently passed away under tragic circumstances.
DeleteDolores Welty is a good person.
DeleteThe post here doesn't give her side of the story and unfairly singles her out, before the investigation is completed, pointing out that she has contributed to the Democratic Party, as though that has any relevance.
Nor does it matter if that is how it was reported in the UT. We all know that newspaper's pro-development/Republican bias, particularly since Manchester took over.
I would love to post her side of the story. I will post it in full without edits.
DeleteIt's not unfair to point out her long history of contributing large amounts of money to partisan organizations, because it reveals that she is a highly engaged political activist, and not just someone whose neighbor stole her daughter's ballot every election for 20+ years.
I sincerely believe that Welty may be a very nice lady and beloved by her friends and neighbors. But that doesn't mean nice people can't get carried away by partisanship listening to their unions and MSNBC.
Other than the possibility that the Union-Tribune reporters made this story up out of whole cloth and none of this happened at all, what possible explanation is there that Welty didn't commit or at least assist someone else in voter fraud? Ballots were mailed to her address for 20+ years and they were consistently returned with fraudulent signatures. What are we missing?
We look forward to Welty's side of the story.
Yup, this story aside, Delores Welty is a mensch, period. Everyone who knows her knows her sympathies politically, but she'd be a great person if she was a Republican. I'm totally disappointed WC, you of all people should know that as a nation, we face an issue of voter disenfranchisement nationally. Vote integrity is largely used as a front term, blanket statement for keeping blacks and other minorities from voting.
DeleteAnd yes, historically, I know about places like Texas and Chicago, where LBJ and the Chicago machine fudged the vote. The same goes for West Virginia in 1960. Voter fraud has and will take place, but never on the scale of disenfranchisement.
Hell, only 50 years ago a lot of black people still couldn't vote in the south! Sadly, this crap is still going on in places like Florida and Ohio as recently as 10 years ago. It's a national and world embarrassment that we allowed this to happen.
Calling for a big investigation on Delores is crap, and if she prints her story and it doesn't ring true, I would back you up, but using that story as a platform to talk about Voter Integrity is dead wrong...
-Mr Green Jeans
MGJ,
DeleteI don't know that as a nation we face an issue of voter disenfranchisement nationally. Who are all these people who should be allowed to vote but aren't?
If you're speaking of felons, Rand Paul is working to restore their voting rights, but who is being denied the right to vote who is entitled under current law?
Dolores Welty should go to JAIL!
ReplyDeleteIs this the same Delores Welty that lectures everyone on what is right?
ReplyDeleteHell, more than half the eligible electorate doesn't vote in any given election - if a dead person wants to vote, more power to them! Zombie power rules!
ReplyDeleteThere are morons in Congress in both parties.
ReplyDeleteRep. Hank Johnson thinks Guam is in danger of tipping over.
That's just one of the reasons we should give these idiots less power, not more, over our lives.
But nice move to change the subject and cry "racism" again.
More than half of the people who vote act like dead people. They bloat blindly with no idea what they are voting on. Hence, the Gaspar Wonder women costume and all the glossy mailers.
ReplyDeletehence the Barth lack of open government and support of Vina's reckless management, Hence the Shaffer Kranz tax hihe, Hence the Pacific View robbery of the taxpayers treasure-
DeleteTrue. Pacific view is Dalaranz sports complex
Delete11:11 3 years ago the NY Times, CNN, AP, Reuters, USA today all came out and said they would no longer use the appropriate term "Illegal immigrant' to describe invaders of our borders. Instead they would use 'undocumented'. Over the next 3 years they used this term to promote propaganda. By the time the planned invasion began this year as exposed by Breitbart.com the government and the media had conspired to lay the ground work to move discussios from 'undocumented migrants' to begin calling them refugees.
ReplyDeleteDuring the invasion the government has silenced the press setting restrictions on independent reporting, and silenced congress. The government has also put gag orders on border patrol agents from talking with the press. The administration is trying to take $3.7 billion from taxpayers and use that to house, feed, clothe, educate and provide free health care to the 'illegal immigrants'. The government is flying at an expense of $100M 'illegal immigrants' to unsuspecting towns and cities across the country.
If you point these facts out the bullies and idelogues- Zuckerberg, Guiterezz, NY Times and apparently you- scream racists in an attempt of shaming voices not to speak out. We won't be silenced. We support equality for all based on rule of law, not privildge for some based on skin color.
4 weeks ago Governor Jerry Brown when speaking at a conference of 'latino leaders' (just imagine if we had someone speak at a group called white leaders- and yes, that would be racist) referred to white american males as gringo's and then said 'brown power' was on the rise. His racist biogoted remarks went unnoticed and not a single editorial was written.
True the Vote isn't about political parties, it is about True the Vote. Why are you afraid to True the Vote?
In the Mississippi run-off a few weeks back they found voter fraud - as in people being paid to vote a certain way, dead people voting ect- True the Vote would have stopped this fraud.
ps- maybe you missed it, but legal citizens of all colors, all creeds, all sexual identities and all genders have come out against illegal immigration. Are they all racists to you simply because they have an opposing view?
"True the vote isn't about political parties". Riiiiight. It is a blantantly political (tea bagger) organization. They only want voter fraud investigated when a tea-bagger loses (like Alan West). Please Mr. tea-bagger, give me a single example that proves otherwise.BTW,every single repub. run state that did studies to "prove" massive voter fraud found that no more than a fraction of one percent has ever occurred. G0 Away. The Breitbart website awaits you.
ReplyDeleteCabezone
8:08
ReplyDeleteYou are wrong. Please review True the Vote's efforts in Mississippi to hold all accountable. Please review True the Vote efforts in Pennsylvania to hold all accountable.
I want my vote to have the sanctity and value it deserves. As WCV and the UT have pointed out- dead people are voting.
You might not care about the sanctity of your vote, and your right to vote, or the equality of the vote of your neighbors- I do.
True the Vote isn't about parties, it's about True the Vote. You migth condone and accept fraud as it suits your poltiical ideology.
I want all of our votes to count equally- I am suprised you don't.
8:08 True the vote looked into and found fraud in Detroit, Ohio and Penn in the 2012 presidential election.
ReplyDeleteTo use your hateful bullying term no "tea-baggers' were running for President.
This proves your claim and statement to be false. Want to try again?
I guess the truth is "hatefull and bullying". Tea-baggers is what you folks orig. called yourselves. Wiki "true the vote" folks. None of my statements were false. My big problem is that you folks hate to pay taxes yet have no problem using public funds for investigations trying to prove your political fantasies.Go the ef AWAY TROLL.
ReplyDeleteThis is about a local activist (Dolores Welty) stealing our votes!
ReplyDelete14 times she stole your vote....
Delete14 times it didn't matter, and they never proved WElty was involved in the vote irregularities.
DeleteI read and re-read the UT article, but saw no detail that proved Welty to be the one mailing back the daughter's ballot. Is it not possible that her daughter's vote, along with other deceased names, were used to vote by someone else?
ReplyDeleteI'm really uncomfortable with this rush to form a lynch mob. Is it a fact that Welty voted using her daughter's name, or is it a fact that her daughter (among other deceased) had her name used in elections and that that's all we know at this point? One or the other, folks.
It will be nearly impossible to prove who did it even if prosecutors had the will to pursue this... which gets back to the problem that there is almost zero security in our elections.
DeleteIf this can happen consistently for decades in the home of a little old lady in one of the most affluent, well-educated communities in America, imagine the possible extent of voter fraud in less transparent areas where party bosses control the county election officials, police, and prosecutors.
WC, Why do most conservatives oppose verifiable paper ballots?Why ,in the last decade, have the vast majority of voter fraud convictions been Republicans.Why did the GOP's top tech guy in Ohio die in his own plane crash just days before he was to testify on voter fraud? Why do most red state new voter laws,in addition to i.d. requirement, restrict voter hours? Why do conservative "news" outlets often promote male landowner only voting? Carefull what you wish for WC. I want fully-verifiable votng systems, not carefully crafted new restrictions that favor a particular party.
DeleteCabezon
Cabezon,
DeleteI wasn't aware of most of those facts. Can you provide sources?
"Promote male only land owner voting" now you are making things up- I wouldn't deny there is some jackass that spouted this off but there are jackasses on all sides of the spectrun ranting nonsense
DeleteVoter ID treats all citizens and all parties equally- that is a good thing. I don't fear True the Vote- neither should you
Fox news has had at least 3 different people promote land owner only voting. Ann Coulter, M.Malkin and L. Ingram have also said on the air that they supported male only voting. True the vote teabagger troll: I support fraud free voting. Why, in many red states, is a veteran I.d. card not valid.? Why don't you work on fixing that? Do you support fully verifiable systems? Do you support 6-8hr voting lines in districts that lean one way with virtually no lines in other districts(Florida/Ohio)?
DeleteWC: Do you really need sources to understand what republicans are trying to do with their new laws or are you just playing dumb?
10:36
DeleteYou do realize how ridiculous you sound. Do you truly expect us to beleive that strong, successful, confident self made woman like the ones you list would give up the right to vote?--
Again, True the Vote is not about political parties - try as you might make it out to be. True the vote would provide solutions to the problems you and others describe.
I am for voter equality for all and truing the vote for all. I am for voter ID's as I believe americans of all colors, creeds, genders and sexual idenity are fully capable of of exercising their right to vote. I beleive we are all equally abled- perhaps you don't.
I do oppose the Black Panthers hanging out in front of polling stations intimidating voters as they did with nightsticks and billy clubs in Philadelphia (there is that state again, Pennsylvania)
It is unfortunate President Obama and Eric Holder never pressed charges against those violating voting laws. You would think the video posted on youtube showing the panthers wielding their clubs as potential voters passed would have been enough for a conviction. Sadly Holder and President Obama never even prosecuted them.
WC, I know you know the voting sympathies of most people in our country. Democrats, lean white liberal, black, latino, Asian, younger and more women. Republicans lean rural, white, older, richer. I don't think I'm going out on a limb on any of these.
DeleteIt's a fact in this nation that blacks and other minorities have been targeted for disenfranchisement, as recently as within the last 10 years. Why, because demographically, the Democrats have the advantage nationally. That's a fact. Do you really think it's a coincidence that all these Voter Fraud groups have popped up since 2004? You know better.
Personally, I'm more of a 3rd party guy like I suspect you are, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to voter disenfranchisement. I'm also not blind to the fact that the UT is rabidly anti-union, anti-democrat anti-diversity. So siding with that team isn't exactly a neutral take.
Sorry old white people, right now if you're voting Republican, you will be on the losing side, especially in California. The bottom line is come up with better candidates with a better message. I thought the same thing when Kerry lost, you need a better candidate with a better message.
But the people have spoken the last two elections, and it wasn't Republican. Now the hard work begins, figuring how to court voters outside your base. Get to it....
-Green Voter
GV,
DeleteYou provide a compelling motive for disenfranchisement, but not the evidence of actual disenfranchisement.
If there were many instances of actual disenfranchisement, I presume the Democrat-friendly media would be trumpeting it 24/7.
Dolores Welty, a retired teacher, is also a registered Democrat and a frequent voter. In every election in which a ballot was cast for her daughter, she also voted. BUSTED!
ReplyDeleteNot true, except in the law according to you, 9:37.
DeleteBecause DW votes in every election doesn't mean someone else couldn't be voting in her deceased daughter's name. Give us all a break! How low can you sink?
6:03,
DeleteSo somebody stalked her mailbox every year for 20+ years to steal her daughter's ballot every time elections came around?
I would think in that case it would be a close friend or neighbor and DW could point the authorities to the culprit.
That still doesn't change the fact that the UT article buys into the false notion that we have a voter fraud issue in this country, we don't. What Republicans have is an old age, white people problem..Demographics are a bitch....
Delete8:46 you are a racist and a bigot. It is rather disgusting
Delete
ReplyDeleteI agree with you 100% on issues of security.
However, that's not how this was presented here with the addition of the "Mmm-hmmm." A Wild West-style mob formed way too quickly for my taste, and in my experience, formed by those who fly the flag most proudly.
The way this conversation went immediately to a presumption of guilt was pretty disgusting. 9:37's "BUSTED" comment is a case in point.
Note to all: next time, check yourself before you wreck yourself.
"Agree 100%" refers to EU's 9:24 comments on voter fraud.
DeleteWhile there will likely never be enough evidence to prosecute, surely you concede that the circumstantial evidence is highly damning.
DeleteWhat's the alternative hypothesis? That someone stole her mail every time ballots arrived for more than two decades? And it's purely a coincidence that this happened to someone with a history of extremely partisan political contributions?
I don't concede anything, nor do I argue anything. I just think this thing turned ugly fast and I'd like to know more before I get out the rope.
DeleteFor example: were the physical ballots returned to the registrar, or were they "counted?" In our virtual and highly manipulated world, these details matter.
I'm neither for nor against Welty at this point. I just find it unbecoming to put it mildly in a country where we pride ourselves on fairness and "innocent until proven guilty" that we don't seem to have moved, when push comes to shove, beyond that of a kangaroo court.
9:56-Your vote has been stolen 14 times and that doesn't piss you off?? It pisses me off. Someone voted 14 times for enc council idiots and I'm pissed. Time to return to the days of landownership to cast a ballot. No more dead serfs voting .
DeleteYes, it pisses me off, but stringing up Welty without knowing whether she's the one who stole the votes pisses me off even more. Stealing votes is not an American value (except in certain circles) and condemning without evidence isn't, either (except in certain circles).
DeleteIn Chicago stealing votes is rewarded
DeleteSince it hasn't been demonstrated that the votes were "counted," there is no evidence that any votes were stolen.
Delete6:05,
DeleteRe-read the story. The 14 were counted. Somebody sent in her ballot a 15th time, and that one wasn't counted, though she wasn't removed from the voter rolls even then.
Ok, again: was it a physical ballot sent in? We get it, "the 14 were counted," but counted how?
DeleteThey certainly didn't have e-mail/online ballots in the 1990's. What kind of ballot was there other than physical?
Delete8:54 ahh, the cabezon claimed True the Vote was only about what Cabezon hatefully referred to as 'teabagger'. The responding comment was that Cabezon was wrong- and cited the factual examples of True The Vote investigating successfully voter fraud in 3 states- all during the 2012 Presidential election.
ReplyDeleteNo 'teabagger' to use use the hateful term of Cabezon, ran. This means Cabezon's claim was as Jerome stocks might say "factually incorrect"
You are also wrong 8:54 members of the orignial tea party referred to themselves as patriots, constitutionalist, common sense but they never referred to themselves or called themselves 'teabaggers'
It were members of the ideology of hate and intolerance that began calling them denigrating sexual names in hopes of intimidating, bullying, and silencing their views.
It may have been Bill Maher, John Stewart or Chris Matthews who began calling those with opposings views 'teabaggers'.
So- as Jerome would say "you are factually incorrect".
Is it a problem? Sure, I guess, on some level, but remember this:
ReplyDelete1.) They found 26 votes since 1998. The most I'm any single election was six. It's a problem, but not a material one.
2.) The favored remedies would do more harm than good. Even if Voter ID stopped 26 invalid votes, if it also invalidated 27 or more valid votes (eligible voters who lack ID), then it actually has a negative effect on the fairness of the election.
3.) The favored remedies are ineffective. According to the article, 21 of the 26 votes in question were mail-in ballots. Voter ID, reduced access to early voting, fewer polling places--none of these has any affect on mail-in ballots. If you want to end or restrict mail-in ballots, again, you'd likely disenfranchise more eligible voters than the number of illegal votes caught. You'd be doing more harm than good.
4.) In the marketplace of ideas, voting beats no voting. It's really dumb PR to create the appearance that one party is for shrinking the electorate, rather than bringing candidates and issues that appeal to a wider swath of the electorate. Taking that risk over 26 votes is felony stupid.
IT's really dumb to make voting about parties when it is about civic duty and equality. It's really stupid to say one party wants to shrink the electorate when it promotes and enourages voter equality and voter credibility for all/
DeleteIn the battle of ideas you have two groups
Group A- wants to protect voter rights of all races, colors, genders, religions and sexual orientations by making sure the vote is true.
Group B- does not want to true the vote and seeks to continue voter fraud. To do this they call group A lost of names and use misinformation and screaming voices on TV to bully and scare citizens.
You can choose which ever idea fits with your moral compass
Good points 10:31. C.) This country has a history of disenfranchising voters, as recently as 50 years ago in the south until the Voting Rights act, more recently in Florida and Ohio. If we are truly a free nation, we should be making it easier, faster and quicker to vote. Didn't Oregon have an all mail in election last time?
DeleteLet's have forward thinking ideas like that, not backward looking ideas like restricting the vote through Voter ID's.
8:50 voter ID don't restict the vote- you have been fed a pack of lies.
DeleteVoter ID ensures equality for all.
Voter fraud is very common and all party's should be held accountable.Singling out one example that suits your agenda is called propaganda.Should we call this blog fox news west.Your ideaogy is in plain sight.Just mean spirited,puke!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletePlease show just one verified example that proved that voter fraud is common anywhere in this country. You cannot.
Delete10:33- I thank WCV not only for posting the article in it's entirety but also for providing a forum for the public to discuss.
DeleteYou are certainly right to have your opinions.
I believe we should have voter ID cards, paid for by the government, avaiable at all post offices. I believe that voting aged americans of all races, colors, religions, genders and sexual identities are competent and capable to think and act for themselves and succeed as they see fit. I believe all people have the ability to be self reliant.
I am also opposed to mail voting and computer voting. I think all americans are capable of getting to a voting station, showing a voter ID and voting that day leaving a paper trail of who voted that can be referenced on the final precint tally that "true's the vote"
10:40 ahhh- there is a link at the page to an article that reveals voter fraud is common right here in San Diego- you might chooe to read it
Delete"All Americans," 10:41 - you serious? Ever heard the term "housebound?" Surely you jest...at least, I hope so.
Delete11:00 am you are selling the housebound short- yes, the housebound could also find a way to get to the polls.
DeleteIf afghan and iraq residents are willing to figure out how to walk thru landmines, avoid car bombs, hide from snipers and still manager to vote on the one day they have the vote- then yes, all americans are all capable of finding a way to vote that is equal to all. I believe in the equality of all.
What about ex-pats and military stationed overseas?
DeleteNo mail ballots for them?
Your operative word, 11:14, is "walk." Housebound means just that: can't walk, immobile, entirely dependent on those who are mobile. Too sick/weak to leave the house, in hospice, I could go on....
DeletePut your flag down for a sec and think. Your reality of "everyone" voting in person is not happening. Given very real physical restrictions, you good with disenfranchising those folks who are - yes - housebound?
The solution to a 26 vote problem cannot be disenfranchising thousands of eligible voters.
Delete11:40 no, you heard me correctly.
DeleteWe should have a day of voting. All residents are equally invited to go to a designated polling station, show a voter ID and vote however they would like to vote.
No one is 'disenfrancised' the same rules apply to all citizens of legal age to vote equally.
It is you who seek to disenfanchise voters, not I. I am for applying the law equally to all.
11:36 for ex pats and oversees service personell- again, go to a designated polling station on one day and vote equally as do all other legal citizens with the right to vote.
DeleteOne day, one vote. Equal
OMG 11:47 #2, this is my last try: not everyone can "go" anywhere. What do you not get about that? What do you mean to do with these immobile people? Disenfranchise them to fix, as 11:47 #1 says, a 26-person problem?
DeleteIf you can't figure out that everyone cannot get around under their own steam, then I don't know what to tell you. This conversation is already way weirder than I can stand.
11:53- If the vote is not true- then millions are as you say 'disenfranchised'.
DeleteAs the article shows, not having a true vote here in Encinitas for many years disenfranchised closed to 600,000 voters-
All americans of legal age have a day to vote. All americans of legal age have a polling station. All american of legal age show a photo voter ID paid for by the government. Each voter is recorded as having voted. A paper trail exists at each voting precint of how many people voted, how many ballots were turned in. True the Vote
This is equal and open to all americans of legal age who choose to participate. No one is disenfranchised. It is open to all.
You are assuming it is the role of government to make sure a person who let's say has been dealt a bad hand and is disabled gets to vote by mail ballot or absentee ballot- it isn't. The job of government is to make sure each citizen is provided the opportunity to vote equally, and to make sure that vote is true.
Ah, now I take your point, 12:19. Only those sound of body get to vote. You wear a flag in your lapel, too? I know your type.
DeleteWow- 2:20 sounds bit prejudicial, bullying, almost fascist- hopefully you don't have a brown shirt.
Deleteequality for all means that- equality for all. One day, one vote, equal for all.
You might oppose equality and seek to disenfrancise millions- I don't.
Curious what is so magical about the one day stipulation? Also, if it turns out that there has been significant tightening of oversight these past ten years (a lot has changed since the last "fraudulent" vote, isn't it possible that this issue has already been solved? At what point would the hand wringing end?
Delete600,000 disinfranchised voters in Encinitas. Really? LOL! This is silly talk.
Delete60 registered voters in Encinitas, 10 years of apparent voter fraud from someone not obeying the law- 60,000 x 10 =600,000 voters who thought the voting process was secure- when it wasn't
DeleteTrue the vote
you might choose to support a voting process this corrupt and fraudulent, don't expect reasonable people with common sense to join you
60k registered voters in Encinitas? Wow. We either have a massive fraud problem, or a massive math problem.
DeleteWe don't have that many people of voting age.
About 39K. In the rush to be right, the poster named the population of Encinitas, not the number of registered voters. Sigh.
Delete4:29: am actually a leftie, tired of self-righteous flag wavers who are long on saluting, short on critical thinking.
Delete6:34 Critical thinking leftie?
DeleteSo it's ok to you that 390,000 Encinitas Voters were disenfranchised by voter fraud? You reveal yourself.
It's clear in your ideological zeal you give not a cent to equality for all.
Ancient Chinese Proverb:
DeleteBeware the moment when people who care not for precision or numbers become interested in elections.
Your illogical logic lacks critical thinking. Even if every election and elected councilperson was decided by one vote in all of the elections that the city has had you're still talking silly talk. Your math is full of $#IT.
DeleteI think everyone needs to learn the difference between voter fraud and voter disenfranchisement....
Delete8:53 voter fraud disenfranchises all legal voters, it reduces the value and equity of each persons vote-
Delete7:25- yes, the fact that voter fraud occured in Encintias elections means each voter who voted thinking their vote had a certain value was disenfranchised.
So, the relevant question to ask here is which way does the "dead" vote lean in the upcoming mayoral election. My bet is that the zombies vote for Kranz at a ratio of 5:1 relative to Gaspar.
ReplyDeleteKranz is going to need zombies, because his base has left da house and he's too proud/blind/unable to see that.
DeleteGiven that Kranz's new besties are Gaspar's old besties, who's going to win the bestie vote war? That's the real question.
As I recall, the latest school bond measures passed by a *very* narrow margin. I wonder how many retired (i.e. dead) teachers like Dara it took to swing this one into the "pass" column?
ReplyDeleteSounds like Jerome quoting Jerome.
ReplyDeleteWill the true the vote idiot please leave. Who pays you? You've obviously never posted here before. I'm sick of people constantly re-mouthing everything they hear Fox/Rush/Breitbart ect say. Thanks WC for unleashing this puss pocket of lies upon us. If you can't see that all of these new voter laws are about disenfranchisement (as many of their backers have boasted) than you are extremely uninformed or not very smart or you actually believe there is a significant fraud problem. Maby you believed the guy on Fox news who claimed that bussloads of Mexicans were brought in to vote for the anti-christ Kenyan.Yes, that was actually said on Fox (I made up the anti-christ Kenyan part) .
ReplyDeleteCabezon
Cabezon,
DeleteSpeaking of parroting Fox/Rush/Breitbart, what were the sources for your many facts in your 9:49 comment?
OK so Michael Connell sounds like a Republican Vince Foster. Didn't think we want to go down the conspiracy hole.
DeleteAs for the other claims,
"most conservatives oppose verifiable paper ballots" - sounds like opinion from HuffPo, MSNBC, or such. Doubt you'll be able to document that.
"the vast majority of voter fraud convictions been Republicans" -- possible, but would like to see the source. And convictions are obviously a tiny fraction of fraud cases, so clearly not indicative of the percentage of perpetrators
"most red state new voter laws,in addition to i.d. requirement, restrict voter hours" -- possible, but quite likely just setting uniform standards in order to prevent gaming by local officials rather than cutting hours back
"conservative 'news' outlets often promote male landowner only voting" -- highly doubtful. Surely some fringe blogs have said such things, but taking a fringe blog as representative of what "conservative 'news' outlets" "often" do is dishonest
As long as we are looking up names and backgrounds on voter ID laws another useful name is Anita Moncrief
DeleteAnita Moncrief is a support of True the Vote and lays out a compelling argument for those interested to hear it.
Anita Moncrief is an Acorn whistleblower much loved by the right....Obama one the 2004 election by a landslide, and Acorn was around for years before that election. This is just another tit for tat, radio talking point debate that goes nowhere. Voter Fraud has happened in the past, and does go on now, but not to the degree of voter disenfranchisement...
Delete8:54,
DeleteIndeed. There were grave injustices 50 years ago, which were partially remedied by the Voting Rights Act.
But almost everybody who was old enough to vote back then is now dead, and since then we've had numerous civil rights bills, gay marriage, legalized weed, and lots of other good stuff.
So the question remains: who is currently being disenfranchised? And why does the media refuse to cover those cases if they exist?
Black people and other minorities WC. Not in California, but in states like Texas and Florida, and even Ohio. There are lots of people still alive, like my mom who voted in the 60's. And you have to admit, a lot of people can't accept things like gay marriage. There were plenty of people down on the corner at La Costa and El Camino Real opposing gay marriage during the vote. The irony there being that the black community heavily opposed gay marriage rights in CA.
DeleteThis is why I don't buy the whole Libertarian philosophy. I totally by in to the part that deals with personal freedoms, as long as it's not illegal and is between consulting adults. My friend even refers to himself as a social libertarian.
But I dont' go with the blind eye towards things like racism, that still exist. It's way less than in was even 30 years ago, but it's a long way from being extinct. If you're not around a lot of those folks, you're not aware of it. This is an all white area up here pretty much, so it's not going to be on the table.
Where I grew up in the LA area, you would see it when our school played other schools in our league. We and another team were the only schools with black players.
Groups like True the Vote are around to limit the minority vote, period, and they will do the "Look over here at the Black Panthers" move all day long, while they're purging voter rolls in Texas and Florida. No to ID Cards!, Yes to uniform voting!
WC, we have a word to describe laws that get broken 26 times over a 16 year period. Effective.
ReplyDeleteWe have had far more murders during the same period, but no call for driving that number to zero with invasive new measures.
Hmmm. Interesting.
12:23 True the Vote isn't abour political parties, Fox news, race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. True the Vote is about equality for all. There is nothing invasive about that. We should all ask why some people fear a True Vote?
ReplyDeleteOften the people fearing a Ture Vote would rather call names like racists or try other avenues to distract from their positions.
Some people want a vote that is true and equal for all.
Some people don't.
Which are you?
1:02 Is wiki wrong? It says that true the vote is a Tea Party organization.
DeleteI don't fear you or anyone else.Get it thru your thick skull that no one but a crook would want election fraud. I don't have a problem with I.d.'s as long as they are free and easy to obtain. Now please don't come back.
1:18 Wiki promotes a number of lies and misinformation- I know that going in.
DeleteTrue the Vote is for equality and rule of law for all- I can get behind that. If you can't because of whatever political blinders you may or may not be wearing is your choice.
I agree with you no one but a crook- and unfortuantely we have crooks on all sides- that is why True the Vote is good for all.
Namaste
So, true the vote is not an offshoot from a Texas tea party afilliate? Give it up grifter. If all you got is that all info on this patently partison organization is "lies" you got nothin.Please tell all of us the great work you did for Scott Walker in advance of his recall election. Please site one fricken instance when they went to bat for a non-republican. Go the ef away loser. You are a liar.
DeleteSounds like you're right about the origins of True the Vote, though that doesn't necessarily mean they currently act in a partisan way.
DeleteWhy is there no prominent liberal group seeking to root out Republican/conservative voter fraud?
Anita Moncrief- a brief bio, as a registered Democrat she voted for President Obama in 2008 and was an employee with an organization called ACORN
DeleteToday she is a leader and frequent speaker of efforts to True the Vote and end Voter Fraud- it is an effort to protect the equality of all in voting
in a side note the IRS I believe did order an audit of a group affililated with True the Vote- this is the same IRS that took the 5th at cognressional hearings, and the same IRS that recently announced it had lost hard drives. To the casual onserver it might appear some important people fear True The Vote.
You might choose to see the world thru the prisym of color, or thru the prysm of political party. Thankfully we are in America. But I don't think your vote is any more important, or an less important, then the votes of all legal citizens.
I prefer to see the world thru equality. True the Vote is about equality for all - equally.
I want a vote that doesn't allow a dead person to vote 14 times. You ??
Delete4:36 - Right on. True The Vote !
DeleteW.C
ReplyDeleteYou're 1:27 post does not list any sources something I think you always crow about .You should say in may opinion if you don't have any sources.Thank you.
Nice try.
DeleteThose proficient in English will recognize phrases like "sounds like," "doubt it," and "doubtful," as expressions of opinion, not statements of fact.
Whereas Cabezon made several assertions of fact, phrased as rhetorical questions, which are as yet unsubstantiated.
But you knew that. Or at least I hope they're still teaching the difference between fact and opinion in third grade.
Oh! I forget it's you're you can do what you want-----------DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSee above, my excitable friend.
DeleteThis all sounds like that same wacko raving about Agenda 21 not long enough ago. The repugnicans are doing all they can to limit the ability to vote for millions of americans who have had the right to vote for decades. This has got to be one of the slimiest political moves ever and I hope they pay dearly for it. Get out the vote is organizing all over the country to defeat this repugnican strategy. There is no substantial voter[read barely if even that] fraud and this is used to disenfranchise voters. This wacko is off his rocker and should be posting elsewhere if he wants to rail against a nonexistent issue and why is he here now on this thread picking on a respected citizen in our community. WC how about calling this wacko out for what he is. EDIT this slime out of here.
ReplyDeleteI think there is a lunitic fringe troll now lurking here from Rosta. Probally a friend of Brady's. Maybe he will give up and go back to his off the grid bunker and wait for the rapture while escaping the coming La Razza invasion and leave us alone.
Deletelot of name calling going on-
Deletewhy are some afraid of True the Vote ?
Who is the lunatic, the person seeking a true vote or the person accepting voter fraud?
no comments about Anita Moncrief?
DeleteVoter Fraud in the U.S. is minimal, however voter disenfranchisement, especially among minorities is not. I already went at with Ricky Young at the UT on why this is even a story. The numbers were so minimal, it's not a story.
ReplyDeleteStuff like that is just a "look here, don't look over here" distraction from the real issue, with is voter disenfranchisement through reduced voting hours, methods, locations and crap like Voter ID that harkens back to reconstruction and voting tests.
Ever since Obama won, certain parties in this country have practically been wetting the bed trying to figure out how to regain the "advantage". Since there doesn't look to be an explosion of cranky old white people, I think we know the areas that the disenfranchisers are looking to target.
Some would say the problem started even before Obama's re-election:
DeletePresident Asterisk
Well said 8:03.
DeleteAlso interesting to note that the Gadsden Flag waving crowd thinks they have exclusive lock on the thinking of the Foumding Fathers. Yet for most of our history, from the time of the founders to the early 20th century, foreign nationals were welcome to vote in US elections.
Somehow during that period, we were not subverted, and grew to become an economic and military power.
Not suggesting it's legal now, and breaking the law should not be tolerated. But our history demonstrates that the fears of the small-minded are not founded.
So instead of talking about Disenfranchisement we're going to talk about a Wall Street journal article where they quote Right wing site Newsbusters? This is more tit for tat crybaby nonsense. Obama statistically speaking kicked ass on both of his challengers, and those challengers better up their game for 2016.
DeleteThe IRS scandal and Benghazi Scandal don't really measure up to the sniff test for scandals compared to past shenanigans like Whitewater, Iran Contra, fake bombs in Iraq.
The bottom line is the same, if republicans, the financial sector, the country club etc. want to win, they get your s(*^ together and find someone more like Jon Hunstman for Pres. and less like John Mccain.
This from someone who votes 3rd party from green to Libertation, and might vote Republican if they got off of topics like Abortion, religion, guns and more onto issues like jobs, technology, education, reducing military spending, fixing medicare and SS without privatization etc... Same goes for healthcare. You don't like Obamacare, come up with something better and make it happen.
The crying by the right the last 6 years would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic...
Um, "Right wing site Newsbusters" was only linked to quote verbatim from an NBC Today show discussion between hostess Savannah Guthrie and White House correspondent Chuck Todd. What's wrong with directly quoting NBC news personalities?
DeleteAnd as for the IRS scandal and Benghazi scandal, I think you undersell the importance. For the IRS, the administration is using all the considerable power of the government to suppress dissidence. That should be alarming to anyone. For Benghazi, it's senseless deaths caused by at best incompetence, compounded by a sustained campaign of lies in the aftermath.
I agree the Republicans suck, but that's not enough reason to turn a blind eye to what this administration is doing.
Bottom line: Everyone should have the right to vote, voting should be modernized, accessible and easy and lastly, uniform in every state. No officials from either party should be involved.
DeleteWe're a first world country, with 3rd world voting practices in a lot of areas. Like hunger, crappy healthcare, lack of care for the mentally ill and our education issues, it's a national embarrassment
Everyone should have the right to vote.... Really everyone?? The mentally disabled?? 3 year olds?? My 92 year old demented father?? Sorry dude , you are way of course .
DeleteSorry, I wouldn't ever link to Newsbusters, even for a verbatim quote, go direct to NBC. I don't condone IRS targeting, at least as alleged, but there seems to be more smoke there than fire, and how much the IRS was directed by the admin. is debatable.
DeleteThere are bigger scandals elsewhere, from Enron to Watergate, to Iran Contra, to the Tonkin Gulf. You get my point. To those who would look to Obama for all of the countries problems, I would say look yourself in the mirror first. A lot of problems that have been brewing in this country for a longtime have come home to roost, and "Obama has been ineffective, but the right's attempts to lay all of our woes at his feat is short-sided at best.
We as a country do not want to make the hard choices. There will be pain from here on in. You want roads fixed, it might mean higher taxes, and that BTW, I totally disagree with. But we can't create surpluses out of nowhere. Look at our problems locally, there's no easy way out. Look at PV. There's a whole twisted narrative there, with Bond and Stocks making sure that purchase didn't come before the "Hall park. Now when it finally came available, there was an increased price. There's no easy way out of it, and people now don't want to be leaders anymore. Instead of Reagan we get Bush Jr., instead of Clinton, Obama......
9:38 NBC lied and edited video to make it appear that George Zimmerman said something racist when he didn't.
DeleteYour attempts to call up events of the past in hopes of distracting from the present are a ruse - the IRS intentionally targeting citizens is frightening- Lois Lerner taking the 5th, the IRS crashing hard drives, some IRS members having gag orders not to talk to teh press- it is shameful. NBC might want to look the other way so it does not reflect poorly on the White House but don't ask us to join them . Weather it is Nixon or Obama using taxpayer money to go after an enemies list we should all be alarmed.
Nice attempt to rewrite history and give Barth Shaffer and Kranz a hall pass on Pacific View while laying the groundwork and political cover to say a tax increase will be necessary. I'm having none of your revisionist history
Barth SHaffer and Kranz could have agendized and bought PV in the Spring of 2013- they didn't. They could have filed an injunction- they didn't. They could have attempted to get a better price- they didn't. They don't care becuase it is not their money they are spending. And the three of them know they cn try and raise taxes on residents sticking them with the bill for their incompetence. THey will wrongly call it a hard choice.
Hard choices- 70% of legal americans want the invading illegal horde shipped home- the white house and the media - yes that NBC - are instead promoting them as refugees not illegals while they raid $3.7B from the pockets of legal taxpayers. We want the right choices but our leaders no longer care about us, they are all elitists who think they know better than us what we need.
Parking meters anyone?
8:03 True teh vote = equality for all
DeleteJeez- not a a single comment from any of you opposing True the Vote regarding the Black Panther video in front of polling stations wielding batons and Eric Holder and President Obama refusing to bring charges
ideology blinders - they keep some from seeing the truth
9:17 "the benghazi scandal doens't measure up'
DeleteA corrupt media bames a video- for weeks- knowing it is a lie- to elect their preferred candidate- doesn't measure up?
A US Ambassador is assassinated and the Islamic flag of hate (hey these are the guys now mutilating the genitals of any woman aged 18-41) is flow over the USA compound - and in your eyes it doesn't measure up?
Not a single one of the 20+ survivors in Libya have been allowed to meet the press or congress as the WH had them sign gag orders- doesn't measure up?
@10:57, please do go on. And on. And on. While you're at it, isn't there still some legs in the Vince foster "suicide" story? Willie Horton? The Maine blew up, too!
DeleteWith friends like you...
The Black Panther Controversy was two men:
Deletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case#Incident_and_initial_response
"Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which lists the NBPP as a hate group, described the conservative media's handling of the case as amounting to a "tempest in a teacup".[45] Republican Linda Chavez described the video as damning but relatively minor. She stated that because the story has pictures, it was the kind of story that you can run over and over again.[47]"
The Southern Poverty Law Center is a racist hate group. The attempted mass murdered who stormed a family values office armed with weapons was affiliated with the SPLC- he wanted to murder anyone who thought heterosexual marriages were unique.
DeleteThe issue shouldn't be about who's voting. The issue should be focused on who are we voting for and why.
ReplyDeleteBlakespear or Graboi: Who's it going to be?
Kranz or Gaspar: Who's it going to be?
True the Vote is a Conservative Vote Monitoring group with Tea Party backing from Houston Texas. Good luck finding a person of color in that group. The main guy behind all the voter fraud nonsense is Hans von Spakovsky.
ReplyDeleteHere's some background from noted left wing wacko magazine the New Yorker (Sarcasm intended)...
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth?currentPage=all
The Voting Wars is another good book on the subject. I have voted Libertarian, but I don't go for this crap. If you want to win an election and your message isn't working, which has been the truth for Republicans lately, and even Ron Paul, you better get a better message or make the message appeal to more people...
-MGJ
Alex Fidel is running for Mayor.
ReplyDelete7:48 You actually believe what you read on Breitbart.com? Do you also think Darrell Issa is a good, honorable Congressman?
ReplyDeleteSo, let's see, Benghazi was a terrible scandal, but invading Iraq under false pretenses, destroying scores of thousands of lives and, ultimately, costing the US trillions of dollars, that was OK? And Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condi and Wolfie still saying it was a good move, that's OK too?
ReplyDeleteConvicting Dolores Welty in a kangaroo court is shameful. You won't be hearing her side of the story for a while because she's on vacation overseas.
10:36 you apparently live in an world of ideology unable to see things as they are- is it just possible that bad is bad- be it Iraq as you claim or Benghazi?
DeleteI think Iraq is bad but not becuase of the WMD. I think there are WMD- ISIS has them now
I think Iraq is bad becuase we never should have went in- and we left too son.
I think benghazi is bad becuase of the event, the WH cover up and shockingly the press covering it from the NY Times to the WSJ
10:36's point is that the rightwingers trumped up Benghazi but defended invading Iraq under false pretenses. Invading Iraq was bad only because 10:36 "claims" it was? It was the worst foreign policy decision in US history. A total and enormous blunder.
Delete"becuase" and "should have went" and "left too son" indicate a great intellect at work.
DeleteTo be fair, intellect is distinct from education and typos can simply be the result of the decreased manual dexterity that comes with age. Gullibility, on the other hand is pretty much inexcusable in my book.
DeleteGive it time, these scared TEA party geriatrics (a.k.a. John Birchers on Geritol) soon won't be able to see or even understand the absentee ballots or computerized voting apparati and will be unable to make it to the polls themselves. Then we will learn exactly how unjust efforts like HAVA and "true the vote" are to "legitimate" voters. Then we win.
Benghazi was clearly a mistake, which is to say the local CIA or whoever is in charge of security was caught by surprise. The conspiracy comes in when the right alleges that it was a cover up on who attacked and why, and whether local intelligence knew it was coming.
DeleteAll in a country where the U.S. had changed its tune and had been supporting Khadafi at the end . What about the U.S. and Lebanon when the embassy was attacked in the 80's, was that a conspiracy? Screw ups happen, frequently, even at a high level in the U.S. government. It's human nature.
Remember the attack on Kenya on the alleged Al Queda factory under Clinton? Whoops, it was a soap factory...
6:39 cover up? Obama and Clinton blamed a video, Susan Rice lied on 5 tv shows, the media hid the truth long enough tog et Obama elected. Cover up?
DeleteWhowever was in charge- OBAMA is in charge, his direct report is Hillary. They are the two at fault.
Turn off your TV
I guess the 10 million vote difference had nothing to do with his election. You're basically saying a black man couldn't get elected without the media conspiring to assist him, an absurd claim.
DeleteHe out hustled Hillary Clinton, out fundraised John McCain and out social media-ed Mitt Romney.
And he's mediocre at best, just like our country has become...
6:28 "should have went" is not a typo.
Delete9:16 you are a bigot. Nobody said a black man couldn't get elected without the media helping him. Unfortunate you are locked in seeing terms of race. Maybe someday you can join us enlightnened souls who see it thru performance.
DeleteGoogle Anita Moncrief- a registered democrat who voted for Obama, workd for Acorn and is not a vocal leader in support of True the vote- then accuse her of being a racist, it's what the bullies of hate and intolerance are best at.
ReplyDeleteOK, did that. What's your point?
ReplyDeleteWC, There were over a dozon embassy attacks under Bush. Not one got a whiff of scutiny by the Democrats or the press or in particular, republicans. Why do you think that is? Of course true the vote was looked at by the IRS. They are a batantly political organization that claims to be a no-profit, just like dozons of other tea-based grifter groups. I'm getting the impression that you haven't had near as many trips around the sun as I have.
ReplyDeleteCabezon
Obama's own Organizing for America, as well as many others like Moveon.org, are blatantly political organizations using the same 501(c)4 structure that the conservative groups did.
DeleteYet none of the left-wing organizations were targeted by the IRS like the conservative organizations were. Why do you think that is?
So you're saying there's a quid pro quo between Obama and the IRS to target Republican groups? That's what this comes to. It probably has more to do with shrinking revenue and coming up with a system to target groups to levy fines, which is just as wrong if not worse.
DeleteTo get back to our key point here on Voter fraud, the keys are this. Did the U.S. have a systemic disenfranchisement of black and minority voters prior to 1965? Yes. Does disenfranchisement still exist through less draconian forms: Yes.
Is the notion of large scale voter fraud pretty much the sole dominion of right wing groups: Sadly yes. Is this claim a front to attempt to disenfranchise minorities from voting in states like Florida and TExas: Yes. Is the Republican party too white, old and uptight: Yes.
So Republican party, broaden your base or go the way of the Whig party, but quit worrying about black people voting. Do what some people do, find a uber conservative guy like Ben Carson to vote for. See, even the African-American community isn't monolithic, they have people who don't like gays as well!
Exactly right about the IRS.
DeleteAs James Taranto writes,
Have you noticed that the Internal Revenue Service scandal seems to be getting ever closer to the White House? The IRS originally tried to set up "rogue employees in Cincinnati" as fall guys. But in congressional testimony, they revealed that the targeting of dissenting groups was directed from Washington.
As Peggy Noonan noted, the Washington supervisor, Carter Hull, last week implicated the IRS's office of chief counsel: "The IRS chief counsel is named William Wilkins. And . . . he is one of only two Obama political appointees in the IRS."
[...]
As this column has argued before, the higher this scandal goes, the better it is for the country. We say that not because we don't care for Barack Obama--let's be honest, a President Biden would be no bargain either--but because the president can be held accountable if it turns out he or his top aides essentially instructed the IRS to steal the 2012 election. A corrupt administration can be dealt with, as Richard Nixon's was 40 years ago.
By contrast, if career IRS employees acted on their own, it means the integrity of American democracy itself is threatened by an out-of-control administrative state. In that case, how to solve the problem is not at all clear.
The same Peggy Noonan from the Bush Administration? See, this is the problem with discussing stuff like this, it becomes tit for tat between former Bush people and Obama people. And the problem with quoting the WSJ is that's the leading organ or a lot of the anti- Obama rhetoric, which is not a story. Why would the nation's leading business paper support a Socialist, LOL!
DeleteI'm sure the IRS did do some targeting of these groups, the problem is, we'll never know the link between them and the Obama admin. Hell, if the IRS can't catch GE offshoring all their enterprises, the won't catch themselves targeting certain groups.
To me it's more about inefficiencies and incompetency than conspiracy. They didn't have to steal the election in 2012, Mitt Romney made sure of that. Where was the Journal in 2000 when the election was stolen (I voted for Nader). They were nowhere to be found, because they had their boy in.
I know all the Business Class guys are shaking in their boots right now, because they don't want any of those big capital gain rates that went down under Bush to rise..lol!
6:52 wearing your ideological blinders you unfortunately reveal your ignorance regarding the IRS. If you have been fed a steady diet of talking points from sceaming heads and editorial boards known to bully, intimidate and throw around the word racists against those with opposing views it is understandable.
DeleteLois Lerner- big wig in the IRS is caught on video saying we have been told to go after them- who told her?
When teh abuse of office is revealed Lerner pled the 5th, not speaking. Then the IRS 'lost hard drives'.
Of course if you asked questions about this you were promptly called a racist, a homophobe, a member of the KKK, a angry old white guy, a man against woman, a god lover, or any other number of denigrations in hopes you would shut up, or others would not listen to you.
Homosexuals are less than 3% of the population and have been used to promote a political agenda not based on equality but on fear and bullying. We are all equal. the 3% is no more, and no less, important than the rest of us.
When arguments can be won on facts we can always count of terms like racists and homphone being trotted out to bully and silence the truth.
The truth is this- the IRS used its power to target, harass, inimidate, attack and abuse average every day citizens simply becuase theu had a different political view. Scary - next thing you know the government will be knocking on dooras at night with a list to take people away for thinking differently.
5:58 It is interesting to me that when a present day topic is dicsussed some feel the need to dig into the past in an effort to justify some atrocious behavior and failures. As if somehow comparing an apple to an orange will make the apple and orange- it won't. Or that somehow throwing dirt might cover up the truth.
DeleteThe media covered for President Obama on Libya to re-elect him. They are not a free press. For 6 weeks they blamed a video. The canadian press was reporting the truth within 24 hours of the attack, while Candy Crowly, Brian Williams etc were spreading misinformation and untruths. Then when the truth began to leak rather than hold the administration accountable they began comparing the assassination of Chris Stevens the US Ambassador at the hands of Muslims to failings of previous presidents. they did not report on the flag of hate and intolerance being raised hihg over american soil, nor have they reported on the more than 20 Benghazi survivors who have been gagged and prevented by the WH from speaking with the press and congress.
It would be of great benefit if we began seeing things as they a re today, and began holding elected leaders accountable for the actions of today
7:21,
DeleteYou might want to consider the merit of the argument rather that dismiss it out of hand just because the writer used to work for a Republican.
Noonan, by the way, is quite moderate and wrote quite fondly of Obama early in his administration.
Walling yourself off from differing opinions is the mark of a Fox News / New York Times closed-minded ideologue.
7:27, as many on this board have intimated, prove it! Let's face it, a lot of people hate the IRS. I myself am not a huge fan, mainly because of the inefficiencies in the agency.
DeleteAgain, there's a lot of smoke regarding this controversy, I ask you to provide the fire. When you link in Benghazi to a discussion of the IRS, it kind of makes your credibility fade just a bit. 7:35, you've obviously spent a lot of time that I don't have watching, reading and fulminating on Benghazi. My response as always is I don't give a rats rump about Benghazi. I don't have time to worry about Libya right now.
WC, I'm not walled off from different opinions, I'm not a big reader of either the NYT or Fox, but when Peggy Noonan is a central quote to a piece on Obama and the IRS, that's hardly a neutral opinion in a neutral piece.
You're kind of making my point about the tit for tat discussion between Fox talking heads and as you call it the NYT faction. My point remains the same. Despite not voting for Obama, I think it's hilarious he beat Republicans at their own game, out-fundraising them, out maneuvering them, out Reagan-ing them in the slogan dept.
I never by any of that crap, never have, never will. The proof is in the pudding. And now president in the last 30 years to me has had the sauce, so to speak. Bush I and Clinton came the closet. The rest, definitely not.
The bottom line is this, Obama isn't going anywhere, you'll have have to suck it up two more years, and then watch Hillary run against Christie or someone else.
In the meantime though, we don't need this bogus Voter Fraud notion which plays into the minds of small minded people who can't accept the new more diverse U.S....
8:31 you can google the video link of Dan Savage bullying high school christians kids- he later apologized. Yes, the homosexual movement like any movement includes bullies- in fact you can even lose your job as CEO of a public company just for the ahving the personal belief that heterosexuality and homsexuality are not not the same thing - ring a bell?
Delete8:24 I didn't like Libya to the IRS- the other poster did, claiming it was much ado about nothing.
Delete8:35, no it doesn't ring a bell. See, I don't even know who Dan Savage is, because I don't troll the internet, listen to the radio or watch to boob tube all day so all this crap washes over me.
DeleteThe bottom line is discrimination against gays in our country has only recently become "not okay". I think we all know that, so save the nonsense for another blog...
9:13- not true
DeleteMaybe you should learn who Dan Savage is and what he discussed with our children- might be good to know. Interesting the leaders of the Gay conservative groups condenmed the attacks by Savage while CNN, NY Times etc never even reported it. I suppose in their world Gay conservatives are somehow less gay then liberal gays and therefore deserve less tolerance and more hate.
I don't even have kids, so I guess I'm safe there! I did however google his name, and I guess he has an online column out of Seattle. And mercy, he's GAY! He's welcome to his opinion, this is America after all....
Delete3:54 if that is true 'he's welcome to his opnion' then why did he berate, belitte, bully, harass and intimidate hihg school kids for having an opposing opinion?
DeleteIf Savage can have his opinion and column then why does the gay bullies of hate and intolerance destroy chick fil a buildings?
If Savage can have his opinion then why can the gay bullies force the resignation of the Mozilla CEO?
That's the whole point- gay bullies demand all be tolerant of their views yet they are not tolerant of others
7:089 Shame on you. A grown man, mocks, harasses, intimidates, bullies, demeans children in High school- and you blame the students................what does that say about you
Deletethe kids didn't bring about the bible- savage did because he is a intolerant hatefilled bully who hates heterosexuals and christians-
No one said being gay was an opinion- so why are you making things up? So you can feel more justified?
What was said is Savage can have his opinion, and he can, but unfortunately in Savage's world if you have an opinion different then his then you are subject to bullying, intimidation and harassment- even if your only a child. Oh Correct that, a christian child or a straight child
You do realize 4:19 said Savage was entitled to his opinion- as he is, but unfortunately in Savage's world no one else is entitled to have a different one- and he talks of tolerance. What a joke
So she's not a supporter of TtV? What exactly is your point?
ReplyDeleteP.S., Her name is really Ashawnita MonCrief, but old white voters wouldn't buy into the whistleblower meme if she sounded too...ethnic.
Michelle Malkin MADE Moncrief a star, and helped her get a book deal, which helped her immensely with her personal debt problems. You do the math.
Right, but a lot of figures in the right media are basically saying this to you, "Look, a black lady who's a Democrat who like Obama who worked for Acorn has now turned against it, so you know it's corrupt if even a black person said it's bad."
ReplyDeleteHere's the key point on Acorn: it was founded in 1970, it isn't a new organization. It didn't pop up to support Obama. It was around many years in minority communities. They have done voter drives since the 80's, and even then some Republican backed groups accused them of voter fraud. But right wing groups only really went after them when Obama came into the picture.
The group is still around, but is in different forms. You can't have it both ways, you either want everyone to vote or you don't. Sorry if you don't like the result when everyone votes.
P.P.S. Moncrief was fired from ACORN for stealing $3,000 after she used one of the organization’s credit cards to make personal purchases, according to the Wall Street Journal (Oct 30, 2008).
ReplyDeleteExactly. So there's really no story in holding up Anita Moncrief as a whistleblower. The Republicans have been out Obama'd by Obama, ie, he has proven Democrats can spend even more time that the Republicans raising money to run for office.
ReplyDeleteYou know that's what really pisses them off. The right still can't figure out social media and how to appeal to the youth vote, a la Barry Goldwater in the 60's. Whether there will be another big societal shift like 1968, time will tell.
6:55 interesting that rather than debate the message of True the Vote you sling about the right this blah blah blah, the left this blah blah blah, racist this yada yada yada, white man this tada tada, homophobe this blah blah bla-
ReplyDeleteYea- I voted for Obama, the liar. I remember him saying in 2007 there's too much money in politics, and if elected for teh democrat nominee he would take matching funds- then he went out and raised more money then any other president, much of that money from off shore foreign accounts. Liar. Kind of like Barth with her whole trust and transparency lies
6:44 what is your point? Either you support a true vote or you don't. I do. True the Vote isn't about Acorn, or parties, its about equality. Either you want a True vote or you don't.
ReplyDelete6:42 you mean a book deal like Obama's first book, where his biography that he wrote read he was born in Kenya- just another truth worth knowing about. Go ahead, call me a racist, but it was Obama who wrote that himself - born in Kenya. Maybe he thought it would help him sell books.
ReplyDelete7:45, here's your smoking gun on Obama and Kenya stuff...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/booklet.asp
8:26 snopes is backed by a political agenda- if you didn't know that, now you do.
DeleteObama's first book included a biography he wrote of himself on the jacket. Obama wrote he was born in Kenya. That is waht he wrote -only he can explain why.
What political agenda? The founders of Snopes are longtime Republicans who are now independents. Their agenda is debunking a lot of the nonsense on the internet that people like you like to swallow unchallenged...
Delete9:07 there is ana ctual book written by President Obama. On the cover of the book is an author biography. In the author Biography Obama writes he was born in Kenya.
DeleteEach of us can make of that truth whatever we will.
No, the actual truth is Obama was born in Hawaii, but nutjobs like you who can't accept his presidency will still be barking about this nonsense ten years from now....
Delete3:50 I didn't say where Obama was or wasn't born. I said he wrote a bio for a book he published (he did) and wrote that he was born in Kenya (yes, he wrote that)
DeleteYou can call me a racist if it makes you feel good but Obama wrote he was born in Kenya, not me.
ps- I donated to Obama's campaign
Care to provide the book title???
Delete7:45 You've revealed the quality of your mind and information. You're a birther!
ReplyDeleteTrue the Vote is a sham, another scam to suck in small-minded reactionaries. It's a typical right-wing ploy. Give an organization a noble-sounding name, then go about undermining the democracy and the right to vote. Its true purpose is to disenfranchise voters who are not likely to vote for right-wingers.
The right can't win honestly, so they cheat. That method amplified with Bush's selection after the 2000 balloting.
11:37, correct. True the vote is a disenfranchisement front. If you want to win, run a better campaign with a better message. Same thing I told Democrats in 2004.
ReplyDeleteBTW, people who aren't racists, or sensitive to that issue don't constantly proclaim they're not racists. Kind of like being "tough on crime"....
Peggy Noonan is a pompous ass. Very unfortunately, the great majority of "journalists" on the right are propagandists, not objective reporters or columnists who present a balanced view. They reflect the views of the publishers who employ them, for example, Rupert Murdoch.
ReplyDelete11:49 right, True the Vote is a front- they want evey persons vote to count the same- it is a shame you don't.
ReplyDelete11:37 get your facts before you run around bullying people
ReplyDelete1. Obama wrote a book
2. THe book had an author Bio
3. The bio was submitted by the Author
4. The Bio said Obama was born in Keyna
5. The book was readily avaible to be bought at books stores
That is not a birther conspiracy- it is what it is. If you did not know this truth now you do. Hey, Maybe Obama lied hoping he could sell more books, maybe he was telling the truth and he as born in Kenya-
I can't answer the question. I also can't answer why NBC, PBS, CNN, USA Today, the NY Times etc never reported this.
I was blown away when I read the book cover
9:07 that is hilarious- we can't trust Anita Moncrief and true the vote because she was a democrat who went to the repulbicans but we can trust snopes because they were once republicans but left-
ReplyDeleteNo, you can trust Snopes because they investigate every whack claim on the internet and email and then back up their findings by citing their sources after they do their research.
DeleteAnita Moncrief got the axe from Acorn and is now trying to make a career out of being a pundit, which she's really bad at. Obama won by 10 million votes, it wasn't exactly a close shave, but continue to troll the internet if that floats your boat. I'm sure you can find something to match up with your theories...
Snopes is a rag, a source of info, but hardly impeachable, know to misinform and mislead
DeleteTrue the vote is for the equality of each vote. I support that. You can embrace dead people voting as a good thing but it is illogical, but them you might be as well.
Obama won 3 swing states by small margins
Obama wrote a book, as part of the publishing process he submitted a biography to the publisher. The publisher published the book and the bio. Obama wrote he was born in Kenya. The book went thru the proof readers, editors, and Obama himself. The book was published. When Obama decided to run from office the book was pulled from bookstores.
Did Obama lie? Did the media cover for him? was he born in Kenya? Was he trying to make some extra money writing something was true that wasn't- I can answer those questions. I can only truthfully report if happened becauise I have seen the book cover with my own eyes.
Good luck wearing your ideological blinders- you will only see what you want to see.
Name of the book would be...?
Deleteacton and dystel journey's in black and white- looking forward to all of the explanations and excuses- yeah- but
DeleteHere you go, it wasn't a book there genius, it was his agent's promo pamphlet for their roster of authors. Kind of a big difference between a book jacket and a promo pamphlet. Either way, he's POTUS for two more years, so tough nookie...
Deletehttp://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/born-kenya-obamas-literary-agent-misidentified-birthplace-1991/story?id=16372566
4:44- you are an ideologue. Either Obama lied, or he wanted us to think something was true that was not true becuase it benefited him- that is non partisian- it just is what it is.
DeleteIt is worth noting that the literary agent fell on the sword only after the story was gaining traction in online news reports- that forced the state press to blame the literary agent rather than report and expose the truth
you might be stupid enough to believe that a first time author from Harvard who planned a career in politics was so careless and immature that he would not bother to proofread his bio- don't ask me to join you. He knows exactly what he is doing, I even voted for him once.
I can't answer why Obama let the claim that he was born in Kenya stand- but the press quitely covered up the story-
The press did however endlessly report on Mitt Romney's binder of highly skilled and qualified woman that he hoped to hire some say as being a bad thing- they were backed up by John Stewart and Jimmy Kimmel- not a single joke about Obama's book jacket though - welcome to modern America
If by having ideas I'm an ideologue, then guilty as charged. Oh I'm sure Obama revised his bio many times, what politician doesn't? He's no different than any other politician or president, with one big difference.
DeleteBack in Kennedy's day, they could hush up the press when he had women at the White House, which you could not get away with today.
At the end of the day, Obama had the birth Cert from Hawaii, that's all there's to it. It's like the Bush Nat'l Guard story, he probably wasn't there, but it's the past, and only has so much relevancy. He was the son of a rich guy, what do you expect?
You do realize Kimmel and Stewart host comedy shows?
5:58- So you give Obama a pass for stating he was from Kenya to sell books - but you believe him on other things? SO how do you know when he is lying adn when is telling the truth? Did you know all along blaming a video was a lie? I did.
DeleteThe Hawaii birth certificate is not a birth certificate- instead it is what Hawaii calls a "Certificate of Live of Birth"- 2 different things
When residents in New Jersey questioned the authenticity of the "Certificate of live Birth' that took the Presidents years to produce, the president sent lawyers to argue that the Certificate of Live Birth was not authentic - yes, you read that legal mumbo jumbo correctly, the courts ruled in favor of Obama.
Contrary to what is known Sherriff Joe Arpaio- a man elected many times over by legal citizens, investigated the certificate of live birth as directed by his constituents.
Sherriff Joe did a press conference and reported that the Certificate of Live Birth was a forgery. Sherriff Joe did not say Obama was not born in the US- the media that protects Obama likes to tell that and scream birther in hope no one pays attention
In his press conference Sherriff Joe laid out each step of what he claimed was the forgery process. Hey Obama might well have been born here- but according to the evidence- and it's compelling, watch the press conference, the certificate of live birth is a fake
Yes, Kimmel and Stewert host shows that favorably support and protect obama and denigrate and denounce others with opposing views.
Not a single joke about a man smart enough to gaduate harvard who apparently either authors a lie, or misses a lie, on his first ever book, by stating he was "born in Kenya"
But a mountain of jokes against Romney night in and night out for keeping a binder of talented successful woman he would hire if given a chance.
It is what it is "Born in Kenya"
6:42 you mean a person had a different name at one time- like Barry Soerto? Student at Occidental
ReplyDelete4:14, let's have it then, what are the top 10 things Snopes has mislead us on, with citations to back it up.
ReplyDelete4:41 snopes and wikipedia are rewriting history all the time- heck wikipedia rewrote the map for Crimea the day Russia invaded-
ReplyDeletekeep your history books- common core is trying to rewrite that as well.
Did you hear of the common core exercise asking kids to write essays on why the holocost never happened (thats right, lets have kids write about the muslim jihadi's revisonist history of hate and butchery) scary. That's why Eisenhower made sure photos and movies were taken and forced local townspeope and Germans to clean the camps and see the horrors. Esienhower wrote someday people will say this never happened
who is Barry Soerto ?
ReplyDeleteah 4:44- it was not his agent- it was his publisher who produced the biographies of authors. Obama's stated he was born in Kenya.
ReplyDeleteThat paragon of virtue and integrity, Donald Trump, sent an investigative team to Honolulu to find out the truth about Obama's birthplace. Trump promised explosive results. What did his crackerjack team of investigators find?
ReplyDelete